When does an electric bike become an electric motorcycle?

[Paul E.]

Throttle is eeevil dark magic, you just twiddle your thumb and say "Speedio Changio!" and it makes electrons move and the bike speed up. If you make electrons move and the bike speed up by moving your feet, that's good honest work, almost like walking. Eeeevil dark magic must be vanquished!

 

[stevenast]

Could you accept three legit classes of ebikes regardless if it is PAS or throttle? If not, why?

Sure, I can accept that.

In my humble opinion, throttles don't make a bit of difference compared to pedal assist.

My point all along has simply been that the general public is going to have an entirely different perception.

The public and lawmakers will be seeing motorized bike/scooters. They aren't going to draw all these fine lines; they just don't want motorized vehicles on their walking paths.

 

[JRA]

All I can say is that if I am going to spend $4k on a bike it had better have a motor and go anywhere, anytime, for as long as I wish, and as fast as I want to go. Oh wait, I did already. But I like bicycles and having an e one that even only goes 20ish suits my needs and compliments my ones that only go as fast as I can make them on my own. In the end it is all about the individual and what their needs are. Options are good, laws suppressing options are bad.

 

[Bike_On]

Sure, I can accept that.

In my humble opinion, throttles don't make a bit of difference compared to pedal assist.
I totally agree, and therefore the rules should not be so different either.

My point all along has simply been that the general public is going to have an entirely different perception.
I have totally agreed with that assertion as well. An ebike is a motorized vehicle to them.

The public and lawmakers will be seeing motorized bike/scooters. They aren't going to draw all these fine lines; they just don't want motorized vehicles on their walking paths.
This is where we diverge a bit. I woul dsay we need to advocate for common sense laws and regl. Compromise as needed, but don't hide and cower to where we wipe ourselves off the bike paths. Change takes effort and a good fight to keep change. True?

 

[fxr3]

Excellent 8 pages! I am that disabled 55 year old with heart failure taking advantage of the coolest invention of my lifetime. I get some excersise, dodge traffic, help traffic by not driving, no smog, and maintain a safe pace on paths as needed. My 20 mile loop to surf fish is about 50/50 path and bike lane. The path is so nice, the bike lane- well, better than no bike lane.
My first stromer is awesome and with "jailbreak" codes- it will cruise at 20 by holding button down.
I do that when I need a quick break and still maintain my 20mph.
My new 28mph st2 was bought knowing its classified closer to a motorcycle, and more likely to be kicked off paths. But, the top speed really amplifies the traffic dodging, excersise as much as you can, fun transportation ebikes are. My city (pop 120,00)in SoCal is barren of ebikes- I've yet to see a factory made one, and only half dozen kits(I look at all rear wheels). Unfortunately, I have not found info to jailbreak boost mode up to cruise speed yet, so coasting(cogging) sucks as speed bleeds off quickly.
I believe the couple pushing stroller down path would like to eliminate all bikes off paths, and most cars would like to rid 20mph Mosquitos off bike lanes.
A young man working at our local bike shop really summed up the situation best " when the general public realizes the traffic dodging, fun producing transportation aspect of a ebike- it's game over". Suggesting there will be so many people on ebikes, the fun gray area we are all enjoying, will disappear. The arguments for and against laws and restrictions are all legitiment, and at minimum will be interesting to see how they play out. I'm hoping my age, disability, or even st2 purchased ahead of new laws in Cali will be grandfathered in will keep me using bike as I do now. If not, I'll likely be breaking new laws and continue using as I do now. Thanks for all the various opinions of ebike laws and EBR for the place to learn. B

 

[jazz]

I wasn't sure so I bought one of each: electric motorcycle and electric bicycle!

 

[Bike_On]

The problem with faster eBikes is that they enter the dreaded Moped Class... Much faster than bicycles and much slower than motor vehicles.. In short a nuisance to most people.

Keep the bikes on their original mission statement.. Supplemental power for those who cannot ride long distances or adequate speed on a human powered bike... With that mission in mind most people should understand the need for them.

JoeP,
In rereading this thread, your statement perfectly states the foundation for why the pro-Cali law folks want to limit themselves (and everyone else) to low-powered ebikes: Limit ebikes to only ride as fast as normal bikes....

Well, this is limiting to many who need more power, commute, and just want to have more fun and be free. It is also self serving to the LPB manufactures suggesting the laws. (now is law I believe)

You are also spot on, IMO, to identify the "dreaded" moped class. But why dread it? I have been around ebikes for 9 years now. After the initial thrill of the technology, most people move UP in power, not down. Why? The benefits out weight the costs/risk/the LP feel. As George speculated above, a good top speed that is useful is 22-25mph. Yeah, that's what I'm talking about. Useful speed to get out of high traffic areas. Useful speed and power to help tired legs. Useful speed to keep up with traffic and avoid being passed. Two wheels and pedals to allow self controlled riding on safe bike paths while on the way to work, school, the store, and parks.

We dread what we do not yet want to possess, while bike purist in lycra pass us by, laughing and joking about an overweight, overprices purchase of a two wheeled cycle they call a motor-bike.

 

[fxr3]

That green one may raise eyebrows on bike path. I sold my 5th Harley not long after buying 1st stromer. Don't get the traffic jam advantage of lane-splitting on freeway, but traffic defeating advantages of ebike more than makes up for it. And my ebike is always fun, where lane splitting never was- to say the least.

 

[fxr3]

x2 on dreaded moped class. I feel it on bike (and in my car) . The lycra carbon fiber posse are the ones to be laughed at- hunched over in a uncomfortable position, limiting their view, and hoping all their ultra light carbon fiber knick-knacks don't fail over the next pothole. Pedaling for all their worth to touch the 20mph. mark. Of course, there are many highways named after lycra wearing individuals. In memory of, anyway. You'll never see my ebike on a bikelaneless hwy. The preferred route of a lycra purist. Sorry, that Bike purist thing. Had to pile on.

 

[Bike_On]

Easy to explain:

1. Most municipalities legislate a maximum speed on mixed-use paths, even if it's not posted.

2. Therefore those who speed are not "allowed" to do so.

3. Irresponsible use can lead to bans for conventional bicycles as well.

Then why do you support banning classes of ebikes from bike paths before ebike riders have proven to be irresponsibile?

 

[Paul E.]

That green one may raise eyebrows on bike path.

Just rip the throttle off the Brammo and rig something to replace it that you spin with your foot and it becomes a bicycle in the public perception, allowed on any bike paths.

 

[Sharkbait]

This ebike is being sold as going 28mph with a throttle, and the video is on a bike path. He's not pedaling much. People are going to push things. They'll probably 'explode' in California and they will have to solve the local problems. I doubt they will explode here, so it's on a ten year time delay.

Love this. See no prob at all in fact this is how it should be. Speed on the open road (as much as "28" is "speed" since ive done 70 on dirtbikes with little more structure and far more adverse terrain) and sensible limits on sidewalks and busy paths. Isnt that the way the regular speed limit works? 20 (sometimes less really) is totally sufficient for half mile trips, store runs, sidewalk use but we dont have sidewalks or bike lanes in some places and im not going to be the one driving a lawnmower down I95 or the Main drag to work in rush hour . Thats more of a hazzard than not and reaaallly makes people hate bikers.

 

[Sharkbait]

To bring your head back out of the clouds...

Here are the players and venue: regular bikes, ebikes, road, bike paths and off road trails. You like to be concerned about the majority... well the majority see ebikes as ebikes, not 4 classes. When an ebike is discovered on a bike path, due to speed or not stealth enough, the police and common person is not shifting through their memory at EBR to identify that bike. It's an ebike. A car is a car, and that is a classification of transportation. In the end, these nuances will get boiled down to minimum 2, hopefully 3.

1. The ebike is a bicycle.
2. The ebike is a moped.
3. The ebike is a scooter/motorcycle.

Steve, if you and the CPSC keep pushing to exclude the higher powered brethren, and don't leave them a leg to stand on, we will have an anemic selection of OEMs, multitudes of lawbreakers trying to trick their speed govenors, and worst of all, a once promising technology and green transport venue now castrated from the market. For many, the once exciting ebike with 20- power, will become a boring toy and replaced with a normal bicycle, making the purist snobs happy and the auto makers too.

Spot on. Deprivation of need and American innovation will kill this green dream, and wont big oil be happy. They push you to save the earth, you build a bike and they confiscate it smh.
"Racing by" at 20 lolol indeed. Ive tried to cross the street to the beach where i live, only to be rudely cut off by a drove of 30 spandex sporties going a good 30 in a huge group. Why are they allowed to hold a whole sporting event and ride lance armstrong style down my beach road and i cant pedal at 28 bc i guess i dont know how to use MY eyes or brakes . Since when did America need to be like England?

 

[Mike_V]

Bicycle ?

Ab-rah-ka-Debra
Presto name chango slow quiet 'Moto X'
F35-MX

 

[jim6b]

"When does an electric bike become an electric motorcycle?"

I don't know that, but I do know "when does an electric motorcycle becomes an e bike?"

When I buy it.