What Precautions do You Take When Riding in Remote Locations?

[6zfshdb]

I'm personally very skeptical of bear spray, in particular in a cycling situation. Bear encounters that go bad happen very fast and it isn't super likely to me that you'll have time to effectively deploy the bear spray before things get really bad. That combined with the very short range of bear spray (in my opinion you need to work hard to never, ever get that close to a bear) makes me question the logic. Also my direct experience with bears over the years has been that bears are best described as hilariously nonaggressive (I typically encounter three or four bears a year, sometimes more) and fun and interesting to observe at a safe distance. They are to be respected, but not feared.

When I was in Yellowstone back in 2008, there had been a recent Grizzly bear attack on a hiker. We were getting ready for a hike and encountered a park ranger at the trailhead who warned us of bears in the area. I showed him the pepper spray I carry for dogs. He laughed hysterically and walked over to his truck. "This is what we use" he said as he took out what looked like a large fire extinguisher! He warned that a small can of spray like mine doesn't have enough range and would just annoy a bear, perhaps provoking an attack.

We decided to hike elsewhere!

 

[EMGX]

Believe who you want and do what you want. But unless you discount actual science and experts and choose to believe random hearsay - bear spray is an effective deterrent in an attack, and not just from bears.
Remember that those who perpetuate the myth that bear spray isn't effective or that it will make a bear more aggressive and likely to attack won't be there to back up their claims in the unlikely event that you are in a situation where it could be lifesaving.

This is from the NPS.

NPS - Page In-Progress

All of Yellowstone is bear habitat—from the deepest backcountry to the boardwalks around Old Faithful. Prepare for bear encounters no matter where you go.

Your safety cannot be guaranteed, but you can play an active role in protecting yourself and the bears people come here to enjoy.

• Keep at least 100 yards (93 m) from bears at all times and never approach a bear to take a photo.
• Never feed bears. Bears that become dependent on human food may become aggressive toward people and have to be killed.
• If a bear approaches or touches your car, honk your horn and drive away to discourage this behavior.
• Review the best practices before you hike or camp in bear country, and learn what to do if you encounter a bear.
• Learn about bear spray, a highly effective, non-lethal bear deterrent.
• Make sure you know what areas are closed for bear management.
• Share posters from our "A Bear Doesn't Care" campaign!

There is an average of one bear attack per year in Yellowstone. In separate incidents in 2011 and 2015, three people were killed by bears inside the park. More people have died by drowning or suffering thermal burns from hot springs than aggressive bears.

 

[john peck]

Great thread-- and yeah, I've got to cram that space blanket into my under-saddle bag!

My situation is really strange, because I'm in a dense urban area, but I go places that few people know about, and that I only discover via satellite map or hiking or mtb websites. I could have an accident only one to five miles (at the most) from civilization, but still have no one find me for days if I were knocked unconscious in exactly the wrong spot, or forgot my mobile, or if it got lost or shattered, or if I happen to be in a dead zone, all of which are quite possible.

This does creep me out sometimes. I rarely forget my phone, but it happens. I was on a power line access road yesterday just outside Griffith Park in the Cahuenga pass... only 1.5 miles from the nearest house at most, helicopters are flying around, I can see the freeway... but if I fell in certain spots, I would be invisible. I could scream for hours, no one would hear me.

And I've never seen a soul on that trail, ever. On Brand Park Motorway, it might be hours before someone else comes by, but unless I'm the last person coming down the mountain (possible, but not likely) I'm going to run into someone. I also occasionally detour briefly through alleys, abandoned bike paths, and short but creepy little trails in Atwater Park... places where I really don't have a sense of what the crime situation is-- if someone mugged me and I was unconscious under a bush or behind a dumpster, someone would probably find me sooner, but maybe not soon enough.

So what I consider 'remote' is a bit different! And my precautions wouldn't be right for everyone.

* I'm almost always alone, I have only one friend my age who sometimes rides with me on my second bike, and he's only around 4 months of the year.
* Tire sealant kit.
* Some tools, even if it's just a bunch of hex keys and a leatherman knock-off.
* Warmer clothes-- extra turtleneck in the under-seat bag, microfiber surf/rash-guard shirt stuffed into a jacket pocket for a little more thermal protection or lightweight UV protection. If possibility of rain is greater than 10%, substitute a packable poncho for one of garments in summer, when I'm not already wearing a water-repellent jacket.
* 12 oz. water bottle in cage for rides < 20 miles. Rides > 20 miles, I'm adding a second 12 oz. water bottle in a cross-body sling.
* Mobile phone, fully charged.
* Front light and helmet rear lights, always fully charged if I'm off road for more than 1/4 mile. (I always get home later than I planned!)
* Body armor every ride-- motocross mesh outer jacket (2 pounds) in the summer, armored lined jacket (4 pounds) in winter. (This is because of the blood thinners.)
* Gloves-- may seem obvious, but again, every ride, even if it's 90 degrees out. Usually fingerless except when it's really cold, winter gloves are armored as well.
* Wallet with at least one credit card + ID and health insurance card.
* Whenever I'm more than 1/2 mile or so off road, I let my wife know exactly where I'm going, and give her a vague idea when I plan to return.
* ALWAYS check weather.
* A new thing: I am now checking the grade of trails I am riding (if possible) on hikingproject.com or mtbproject.com, though it's taking me a while to learn what they mean. For me, it means I can manage up to 23% if it's a really short segment, or mixed 10-20% for a quarter mile segment unless the trail is so primitive that it's not even really a trail. Because I'm very inexperienced at MTB, I also try to have a sense of where the steep sections are, particularly if they might be hard to see ahead of time. If those are the numbers, my worst case scenario is I'll have to push the bike a bit.
* When mobile service is in doubt, and when I'm someplace where there are a lot of forks in the trail, I take screenshots of satellite or map images for what I anticipate would be the hardest sections of the trail to navigate in case GPS fails. (I learned that taking the back roads to ski resorts, saved my ass more than once.)
* Always a spring-assisted knife, gotta be able to open it with one hand, usually not an OTF or switchblade, both for legal reasons and because they're a bit less reliable.
* Only illegal carry I would consider would be something like an asp baton, though they are too damn heavy! I am considering a goose neck mic stand-- still probably illegal, but far lighter, mainly for a dire situation w/ coyotes, (very unlikely to be dangerous unless I were badly injured an unable to haze them properly) or off-leash/stray dogs and mountain lions, but potentially for humans. I should take a gooseneck into the back yard, wear some oven mitts, and try it on a cinderblock or something, this might be a stupid idea. There really are no good weapons for mountain lions except guns, and I don't want to carry firearms (maybe someday, but we're not there yet, and I hope we never will be.)

I'm not carrying bear spray-- it would find a way to go off in my pocket. I know a guy that happened to-- his GUIDE in Alaska had bear spray in a back pack in the overhead rack, it fell out of the pack after a short stop, and my buddy was right in the line of fire.

There is a remote possibility of bear encounter on a couple of my routes, cougars are more likely & not
the friendly kind. Haven´t seen either ´round here, but yeah, both elsewhere. Had a young coug try for
my dog on Vancouver Is., but scared it off. On another occasion one chased several deer right through
my camp as I sat having breakfast. That was weird. I´ll forego my bear stories; no one would believe ´em.

 

[m@Robertson]

I've had more or less the same experience with bears. Definitely you don't want to mess with them but ... they're dumpster divers around campsites, and easy to scare away. If you're armed and in the back country, a round into a berm at a 45-degree angle from the both of you ensures the bear takes off running and nobody gets hurt. Also I like to stay cognizant of the fact I am the visitor and they *live* there, so doubly do not want to hurt the animal. The exception to this is when you run into Mama Bear with cubs. I've only had one of these and I was able to get the hell out of the area but I can see that going badly for anyone who doesn't move immediately.

The opposite is true of mountain lion. Chances are when you see them its only because they want you to see them and something bad is imminent. I do carry a Sig 220 in an open-carry chest rig when I'm deep in the boondocks, and nobody minds, including local law enforcement. I know of one instance where the local Sherriff's Dept was hunting down a mountain lion who had attacked someone on a trail. The heli overhead with heat vision notified the team that the animal had gone from being ahead of them up the hill, to doubling back and down and was now approaching them from the rear. Really not an animal you want to mess with if at all possible.

EDIT: I also have pepper spray thats potent enough for bears (and humans and dogs) but I don't carry it for the accidental discharge issues noted above. Fumbling around on a bike for a spray canister, figuring out the thumb release etc. while potentially jouncing around on a bike.... Not my idea of safe, fast deployment. If spray is your bag, consider using spray gel rather than plain spray. The gel is much more targeted and more importantly you can't get any headwind blowback into your face due to the nature of the stuff.

 

[vincent]

I never ride without my garmin INREACH, have found the battery life using tracking etc to be excellent and mine are probably 3 years old now, still no problems

Yes it costs every month but since 70% of my rides 6 months out of the year are out in the middle of nowhere I feel the costs is worth it

 

[PDoz]

I never ride without my garmin INREACH, have found the battery life using tracking etc to be excellent and mine are probably 3 years old now, still no problems

Yes it costs every month but since 70% of my rides 6 months out of the year are out in the middle of nowhere I feel the costs is worth it

vincent, as a regular user can you give my any hints on what I'm doing wrong? I find if my inreach misses a ping when tracking it doesn't send any subsequent pings . It pisses me off to be charged for a day of tracking but only have an hour or so!

 

[john peck]

vincent, as a regular user can you give my any hints on what I'm doing wrong? I find if my inreach misses a ping when tracking it doesn't send any subsequent pings . It pisses me off to be charged for a day of tracking but only have an hour or so!

That´s why I got a Magellan,(that I´ve never used). Not remotely as comprehensive as Garmin, but they
do cover all within 120 mile & are really cheap with no service charge. That´s assuming yur not in a dead
zone. If I go somewhere itś because I´ve thoroughly studied topos & or google maps before deciding
my destination. On google I do a lot of staycationing on maps that post local attractions, campgrounds,
etc. with pictures included.

 

[vincent]

That is weird, not sure

Is your tracking set to every 15 minutes or whatever, I know there are different settings for how often it tracks

Are you putting it in a bag it can’t get a signal out of? Mine seems to track fine through my panniers but I could see that being an issue
Wonder if it could be defective

Sorry I am no help, I do think the interface and software is clunky but it always tracks my rides and I use it more as an emergency thing not a gps

Mine is the inreach plus I think, the highest level one from 3 years ago

May trade up to the new Montana with in reach but haven’t done it yet

 

[john peck]

That is weird, not sure

Is your tracking set to every 15 minutes or whatever, I know there are different settings for how often it tracks

Are you putting it in a bag it can’t get a signal out of? Mine seems to track fine through my panniers but I could see that being an issue
Wonder if it could be defective

Sorry I am no help, I do think the interface and software is clunky but it always tracks my rides and I use it more as an emergency thing not a gps

Mine is the inreach plus I think, the highest level one from 3 years ago

May trade up to the new Montana with in reach but haven’t done it yet

Well damn, I´ve never used it but maybe once, it displays my current local & a map of available routes
in a 120 mi. radius. Doesn´t really bother me. Generally speakin´ my itinerary lapses within the 1st
20 mi. anyway. It´s ad lib beyond that. Becomes a thing of ¨Gee, I wonder where this little road goes?¨
I´m never really lost; I just fail to know where the hell I am.

 

[AHicks]

Well damn, I´ve never used it but maybe once, it displays my current local & a map of available routes
in a 120 mi. radius. Doesn´t really bother me. Generally speakin´ my itinerary lapses within the 1st
20 mi. anyway. It´s ad lib beyond that. Becomes a thing of ¨Gee, I wonder where this little road goes?¨
I´m never really lost; I just fail to know where the hell I am.

Pretty much ditto here. I did learn though, after getting REALLY lost (again!) to either stay home or take some precautions on those overcast gloomy days. A compass at the very least! Way to easy to get turned around to the point you discover your own tracks. You know you're in a spot at that point....(Michigan north woods)

 

[Bubba zanetti]

I have an In Reach and prior to that a SPOT mostly for off road motorcycling. Never had to use them.
Most folks I see using them have them mounted to their motorcycle or bike. I think that could be a lethal decision as when you crash, you often separate from your motorcycle or bike and if injured badly, you would have to get to your bike. I wear mine on my person always.

 

[PDoz]

That is weird, not sure

Is your tracking set to every 15 minutes or whatever, I know there are different settings for how often it tracks

Are you putting it in a bag it can’t get a signal out of? Mine seems to track fine through my panniers but I could see that being an issue
Wonder if it could be defective

Sorry I am no help, I do think the interface and software is clunky but it always tracks my rides and I use it more as an emergency thing not a gps

Mine is the inreach plus I think, the highest level one from 3 years ago

May trade up to the new Montana with in reach but haven’t done it yet

mine is the inreach mini - set to 15 min tracking, it seems to work well until one of the pings are missed, and then every ping after that lines up / doesn't send ( but does get billed !!! ) . I've had days when everything sends, then days where only 3/4 positions are sent . I may have been a bit rude in my communication with the help centre........getting charged for pings that were never sent REALY annoyed me - mistly because it's a safety device that is unsafe.

I agree about the clunky interface - such a shame, because these could be a near perfect communication tool - especially if they could utilise both iridium and mobile for sending data

 

[PDoz]

Well damn, I´ve never used it but maybe once, it displays my current local & a map of available routes
in a 120 mi. radius. Doesn´t really bother me. Generally speakin´ my itinerary lapses within the 1st
20 mi. anyway. It´s ad lib beyond that. Becomes a thing of ¨Gee, I wonder where this little road goes?¨
I´m never really lost; I just fail to know where the hell I am.

John, I think you are mistaking a normal gps with the garmin inreach. The inreach is a two way satellite communication device that offers tracking ( ie it is supposed to send a message at set intervals of your position so someone who cares can look up where you are / come and find you when s*it happens - perfect for those of us who have destination diversity disorder.....) . It also has 2 way text communication via satelite AND emergency beacon capability - ie push a button and someone in a nice and warm office can chuckle about some crazy outdoors person getting into trouble again / have a story to tell over dinner about how hard it is to coordinate an air rescue for an emtb rider with a critical injury.

My mini is just the communication device, but it can communicate with my mobile if I want a big screen / map etc, Vincent has the slightly larger model with a gps mapping function built in. The mini is about the size as a packet of matches

 

[m@Robertson]

John, I think you are mistaking a normal gps with the garmin inreach. The inreach is a two way satellite communication device that offers tracking ( ie it is supposed to send a message at set intervals of your position so someone who cares can look up where you are / come and find you when s*it happens - perfect for those of us who have destination diversity disorder.....) . It also has 2 way text communication via satelite AND emergency beacon capability - ie push a button and someone in a nice and warm office can chuckle about some crazy outdoors person getting into trouble again / have a story to tell over dinner about how hard it is to coordinate an air rescue for an emtb rider with a critical injury.

My mini is just the communication device, but it can communicate with my mobile if I want a big screen / map etc, Vincent has the slightly larger model with a gps mapping function built in. The mini is about the size as a packet of matches

dang that sounds right up my alley. Thx for the clarification I saw your original comment and didn't give it a second thought until now.

 

[PDoz]

dang that sounds right up my alley. Thx for the clarification I saw your original comment and didn't give it a second thought until now.

so just to be clear - DO NOT buy the inreach mini, go for the slightly larger version. I suspect the antenna in the mini isn't powerful enough to reliably transmit when mtb riding?

Nb these things have a monthly subscription cost as well as variable costs for tracking - do the maths and decide if it's what you want / need ( for me, that is a definite YES on months where I will solo ride outside of mobile range more than 2/3 times , ie most of the time )

 

[m@Robertson]

so just to be clear - DO NOT buy the inreach mini, go for the slightly larger version. I suspect the antenna in the mini isn't powerful enough to reliably transmit when mtb riding?

Nb these things have a monthly subscription cost as well as variable costs for tracking - do the maths and decide if it's what you want / need ( for me, that is a definite YES on months where I will solo ride outside of mobile range more than 2/3 times , ie most of the time )

Yup I was actually looking at the Montana 750i. In for a penny... What are you paying for satellite service, if you don't mind my asking?

 

[PDoz]

Size and benefit comparison

mobile phone ( samsung a30 ) - essentially useless for communication where I ride, but takes nice photos and has maps downloaded so great for working out exactly how list I am

plb - one way emergency device, For Aus $200 ish I get 15 years of battery and know that if critical s*it happens I can push a button and hope it sends me gps location / a signal via sat so the emergency services can be dragged away from their cup of coffee.

inreach mini - as described above. A much more powerful communication / safety device. If / when s*it happens I can text via satellite to clarify how deep the s*it is, give the rescue people some concept of how urgent / what I need +/- potentially avoid the need to bother them by sending a text to my amazingly capable wife / any mates who might be able to come and help. THIS is priceless - eg " I'm at the top of heart attack hill with no brake pads, is anyone nearby with a spare set?"

I use either the safety plan or freedom safety plan depending on the time if year / my intentions - Both end up costing around AUS $20/ month on average , the freedom could potentially be cheaper if I was organised enough to deactivate the plan occasionally. NB it's a PITA to deactivate the plans , garmin make it easy to join but challenging to suspend / cancel ! If there was any other company offering the same service I would sell the inreach and switch.

 

[PDoz]

Some considerations - there is a lag sending messages with the inreach - by default ut checks every ? 10 ? Minutes, you can push it to send / receive more often if you are expecting a response, but it's not as natural as we gave become used to with mobile phones.

Despite being a garmin device, it doesn't speak Garmin!!! They decided to retain the original inreach software ( delorme inreach were competitors with spot , garmin bought out delorme ) . It's relatively easy to get the inreach to speak to a mobile that has garmin software downloaded, but the stupid thing doesn't speak to, eg, my garmin gps on my motorbike ! ( so I don't get messages on the screen when riding)

 

[john peck]

Pretty much ditto here. I did learn though, after getting REALLY lost (again!) to either stay home or take some precautions on those overcast gloomy days. A compass at the very least! Way to easy to get turned around to the point you discover your own tracks. You know you're in a spot at that point....(Michigan north woods)

moss is on the north side

 

[john peck]

John, I think you are mistaking a normal gps with the garmin inreach. The inreach is a two way satellite communication device that offers tracking ( ie it is supposed to send a message at set intervals of your position so someone who cares can look up where you are / come and find you when s*it happens - perfect for those of us who have destination diversity disorder.....) . It also has 2 way text communication via satelite AND emergency beacon capability - ie push a button and someone in a nice and warm office can chuckle about some crazy outdoors person getting into trouble again / have a story to tell over dinner about how hard it is to coordinate an air rescue for an emtb rider with a critical injury.

My mini is just the communication device, but it can communicate with my mobile if I want a big screen / map etc, Vincent has the slightly larger model with a gps mapping function built in. The mini is about the size as a packet of matches

Gollly, 2 satettles, what will they think of next?