What is the ideal range on a single charge?

[pushkar]

Question is about the ideal range with single battery,fully charged.

1. Assume that rider has enough power and a throttle.
2. Assume there is a dual battery option to atleast double the onboard battery
3. Ignore use case (commuting / fun / offroad) - just assume you are answering for your use case

 

[pennybags]

I think 20-40 miles is a sweet spot if there is a dual battery option to get to 40-80 miles. That is PLENTY of range for most cases.
My riding is mixed and if I can do 30 miles / charge, I am happy.

 

[onlineaddy]

What's the impetus behind this poll?

 

[pushkar]

What's the impetus behind this poll?

Weight versus range tradeoff.
We are building batteries in the US now, and we have option of putting in 21700 cells in the downtube instead of 18650 (supply shortages). There is a capacity hit but there is a weight trade off too (lighter).
10-20% hit in range (from 50 miles / charge to 40 miles / charge) - but we knock off around 3 lbs weight.

 

[onlineaddy]

Personally I think it makes sense to use the newer cell technology. Slightly lower range along with a lower weight is a good compromise I'm willing to make.

 

[coldriderwi]

Personally I think it makes sense to use the newer cell technology. Slightly lower range along with a lower weight is a good compromise I'm willing to make.

I’d agree with this.

Are there any other benefits to the newer cell tech other than weight savings?

 

[onlineaddy]

@pushkar I thought 21700 are higher energy density than 18650. So, shouldn't they be higher capacity (thus range) given the same weight?

 

[pushkar]

@pushkar I thought 21700 are higher energy density than 18650. So, shouldn't they be higher capacity (thus range) given the same weight?

Yes, but the volume permits fewer 21700 cells- so higher density but lower # of cells (and hence weight saving).

 

[onlineaddy]

I’d agree with this.

Are there any other benefits to the newer cell tech other than weight savings?

At the bottom of this page are listed four advantages:

1. increased cell capacity
2. increased energy density
3. reduced system cost
4. reduced system weight

Thus my above question to Pushkar: I'd think that we get both increased range and reduced weight using 21700 instead of 18650, meaning no compromise at all.

 

[onlineaddy]

Yes, but the volume permits fewer 21700 cells- so higher density but lower # of cells (and hence weight saving).

Sure, but given the same battery size, wouldn't we still get greater range and lighter weight using 21700 cells (unless there's a lot of unused space inside the enclosure because the cells can't be packed as tightly)? Sounds like you're saying no.

 

[Haystacks]

Sure, but given the same battery size, wouldn't we still get greater energy capacity with 21700 cells? Sounds like you're saying no.

Here's a little nugget for you 18650 = 18mmx65mm, 21700 = 21mmx70mm

 

[onlineaddy]

Here's a little nugget for you 18650 = 18mmx65mm, 21700 = 21mmx70mm

I was speaking of battery (enclosure) size, not cell volume. Sorry if I was unclear; I edited my post to hopefully clarify.

 

[vincent]

agree with pennybags, that is about right for me too

 

[Haystacks]

I was speaking of battery (enclosure) size, not cell volume. Sorry if I was unclear; I edited my post to hopefully clarify.

Sorry been spraying today still high off the fumes methinks

 

[Haystacks]

@pushkar Have you seen the CAD files on ES for the extended in frame battery? Gives the frame a belly but iirc its 21ah. Might be woth looking at, quite an elegant solution for watt monsters.

 

[pushkar]

@pushkar Have you seen the CAD files on ES for the extended in frame battery? Gives the frame a belly but iirc its 21ah. Might be woth looking at, quite an elegant solution for watt monsters.

Link please.

 

[Haystacks]

Link please.

this is the e06 version printed badly, but the guy that did the original cad did a few designs for the frame range, i'll track em down again and post the CAD links

Dengfu E06 build.

The long waited carbon frame arrived in early Jan. It’s over a month from ordering til delivered.

endless-sphere.com

 

[opimax]

I need 100 miles per ride at decent speed on moderately flat trail I usually have 3 batteries per trip

 

[AHicks]

I made the mistake of too big a battery on my first bike. It could easily go twice as far as my butt could, and was way heavier than necessary. That lesson learned, and knowing how far my butt can go at this point, 20-40 mile range is fine here - as long as that range is based on the reality it will actually make that range easily.

 

[pushkar]

this is the e06 version printed badly, but the guy that did the original cad did a few designs for the frame range, i'll track em down again and post the CAD links

Dengfu E06 build.

The long waited carbon frame arrived in early Jan. It’s over a month from ordering til delivered.

endless-sphere.com

Thanks.

Yes, we are doing pretty much the same thing (logically) what this guy is doing. Just trying to figure out what riders think .. hence the question.

Appreciate the link.