Were You Moving Away From E-Bikes, What Traditional Bicycle Would You Buy?

[Prairie Dog]

I try to walk a fine line when it comes to riding both powered and conventional road bikes but admit that I’ve been leaning quite heavily on the latter. For longer distances I’ve always felt the power of the Creo was a sure bet and still feel that’s true particularly on rides involving challenging climbs such as the Highwood Pass. However, it’s apparent that the Supersix Evo has officially become my go-to bike for daily outings simply because it’s a lot more inspiring to ride. I also discovered that I could cover much longer distances and climbs on the C-dale than I initially thought weren’t attainable. The Creo still has its merits and riding without PAS is certainly doable in most circumstances. Earlier in the season, I completed a metric century sans assistance with loaded panniers throughout the entire ride and so, on a personal note, it’s more than capable of achieving longer distances in this manner. It can be quickly transitioned into a versatile multi-day tourer which is likely what it’s primary task will be next season. There’s no doubt in my mind that the Creo sports a more comfortable ride on less than predictable tarmac outfitted with slightly beefy gravel tires but when it comes to sheer fun and exhilaration, my attention immediately turns to the Supersix.

Your Vado SL has been the backbone for many of your rides and perhaps riding without assistance more often may inspire you to move to a traditional gravel bike. That being said, your experience with the Diverge left you with some serious doubt and so it appears that for NOW, at least, you may be better off with your current ride.

 

[Stefan Mikes]

Thank you for your inspiring post, Art! Besides, what is your body weight?

 

[Prairie Dog]

Thank you for your inspiring post, Art! Besides, what is your body weight?

I’m of slight build and tip the scales at 61kgs (135 lbs). I can’t say enough how cycling has changed my outlook when it comes to overall physical health and mental well being and look forward to each day on the saddle even when the winter season approaches.

 

[Stefan Mikes]

I’m of slight build and tip the scales at 61kgs (135 lbs). I can’t say enough how cycling has changed my outlook when it comes to overall physical health and mental well being and look forward to each day on the saddle even when the winter season approaches.

I even do not want to show a picture of mine from 2019, that is, before my e-biking adventure started. I looked wide.
My way towards the current shape of fitness (not bad given my medical condition) was a long one. I feel ashamed to even think how much of assistance I needed in the past 4 years!

 

[Djangodog]

As a collector item, for sure

Now as I started consistently riding my Vado SL in the OFF mode, it gives me a lot of pleasure. Yes, it is a struggle for me to just climb nearest overpasses (but I can do it!); riding in total silence on an unassisted e-bike that behaves as if it were just a pedal bicycle is exhilarating! No doubt my past intensive riding e-bikes with gradually reduced assistance brings its fruit. I'm actually scared to mount my full power Vado and use it (or just switch to ECO mode for my Vado SL).

Well, I'm exaggerating. I would not be able to climb any serious hill without the motor assistance, and really long rides at low speed between the daybreak and sunset are not possible, not with the shorter days. I think a 100 km unassisted ride with my current shape does not look feasible yet.

Yes, I intend to research pedal bikes (with the intent to buy one of them) but as it is now, I'm so glad I own a Vado SL! It is like tailor-made for me, and -- don't forget -- I still have that little "+" button near to my finger

As the weather permits, I intend to increase the distance pedalled on every riding day. It was 8 km, then 10 km... Let us see when I would have had enough!

For what it’s worth, I always found that road cycling provided the best endurance and strength building workout. A lightweight road bike with good gearing and carefully chosen terrain will probably do the most to get you into the condition that you seek, (sub compact crank and an 11x32 cassette would be a good choice). Mountain bikes and gravel are more fun, but the effort tends to be in bursts and doesn’t seem to build as much endurance.

 

[Stefan Mikes]

For what it’s worth, I always found that road cycling provided the best endurance and strength building workout. A lightweight road bike with good gearing and carefully chosen terrain will probably do the most to get you into the condition that you seek, (sub compact crank and an 11x32 cassette would be a good choice). Mountain bikes and gravel are more fun, but the effort tends to be in bursts and doesn’t seem to build as much endurance.

Well... The road cycling (even with all the benefits you are describing) is one of the last things I would like to do. It is not only because I am not attracted to the sport or race bikes at all. It is even not the fact I would look rather funny riding at 18-20 km/h on a race bike (I had my share of shame when demo riding a 25 km/h Creo). A race bike requires perfect asphalt, and we sadly do not live in the perfect world here. Yes, I can see roadies riding good asphalt roads in the neighbourhood; they actually do boring laps with the sole purpose of being better on yet another lap. I would have died of boredom Even do not try mentioning a bike trainer

I am an adventure cyclist. I invent a plan to ride somewhere with a purpose. It might involve purely road trips with very varying pavement quality; or I might take a shortcut through a forest or a meadow for instance. That calls for a gravel capable bike. Additionally, my ultimate purpose is to take a place in the Mazovian Gravel 100+ 2024 race: trust me, the terrain won't be easy for such a short race! I expect "traps", carrying the bike over obstacles and a river, climbing some hills (a part of our region is undulated), etc.

I cannot practice for a gravel/mixed terrain race on a road bike, and even going with wider tyres does not prevent the beautiful paint against scratches

 

[Djangodog]

Well... The road cycling (even with all the benefits you are describing) is one of the last things I would like to do. It is not only because I am not attracted to the sport or race bikes at all. It is even not the fact I would look rather funny riding at 18-20 km/h on a race bike (I had my share of shame when demo riding a 25 km/h Creo). A race bike requires perfect asphalt, and we sadly do not live in the perfect world here. Yes, I can see roadies riding good asphalt roads in the neighbourhood; they actually do boring laps with the sole purpose of being better on yet another lap. I would have died of boredom Even do not try mentioning a bike trainer

I am an adventure cyclist. I invent a plan to ride somewhere with a purpose. It might involve purely road trips with very varying pavement quality; or I might take a shortcut through a forest or a meadow for instance. That calls for a gravel capable bike. Additionally, my ultimate purpose is to take a place in the Mazovian Gravel 100+ 2024 race: trust me, the terrain won't be easy for such a short race! I expect "traps", carrying the bike over obstacles and a river, climbing some hills (a part of our region is undulated), etc.

I cannot practice for a gravel/mixed terrain race on a road bike, and even going with wider tyres does not prevent the beautiful paint against scratches

Point taken. A good gravel bike can also be ridden on the road as well and will help to improve strength and endurance.

Here in northern New England our roads are far from perfect and far from boring, but I understand and respect your perspective. I rode a lot in the Czech Republic and the narrow, shoulderless roads were not at all tempting, (I kept a Specialized Stumpjumper over there and avoided the roads).

 

[Stefan Mikes]

Point taken. A good gravel bike can also be ridden on the road as well and will help to improve strength and endurance.

Here in northern New England our roads are far from perfect and far from boring, but I understand and respect your perspective. I rode a lot in the Czech Republic and the narrow, shoulderless roads were not at all tempting, (I kept a Specialized Stumpjumper over there and avoided the roads).

Nowadays, there are more bike paths in the Czech Republic than you would believe. Actually, most of off-road trails are... paved. I might agree with you the Czech/Slovak roads are not ideal for roadies but I alone or with brother really enjoyed roads in both countries on our high mountain rides there. Very safe. Perhaps because the Czech and Slovak are cycling nations (Peter Sagan didn’t come from nowhere!)

 

[Prairie Dog]

I even do not want to show a picture of mine from 2019, that is, before my e-biking adventure started. I looked wide.
My way towards the current shape of fitness (not bad given my medical condition) was a long one. I feel ashamed to even think how much of assistance I needed in the past 4 years!

Luckily, I’ve managed to maintain the same weight for over 20 years. That wasn’t always the case since my doctor advised me years ago to lose weight and scale down on bad eating habits. My cholesterol was embarrassingly high at the time and so I decided that it was time to start making drastic changes. To this day, I still indulge but temper those urges with healthy food choices and a relatively active lifestyle. When it comes to motivation, it does help when one has a partner who is also on the same page and at times is even more determined.

Well... The road cycling (even with all the benefits you are describing) is one of the last things I would like to do. It is not only because I am not attracted to the sport or race bikes at all. It is even not the fact I would look rather funny riding at 18-20 km/h on a race bike (I had my share of shame when demo riding a 25 km/h Creo). A race bike requires perfect asphalt, and we sadly do not live in the perfect world here. Yes, I can see roadies riding good asphalt roads in the neighbourhood; they actually do boring laps with the sole purpose of being better on yet another lap. I would have died of boredom Even do not try mentioning a bike trainer

I am an adventure cyclist. I invent a plan to ride somewhere with a purpose. It might involve purely road trips with very varying pavement quality; or I might take a shortcut through a forest or a meadow for instance. That calls for a gravel capable bike. Additionally, my ultimate purpose is to take a place in the Mazovian Gravel 100+ 2024 race: trust me, the terrain won't be easy for such a short race! I expect "traps", carrying the bike over obstacles and a river, climbing some hills (a part of our region is undulated), etc.

I cannot practice for a gravel/mixed terrain race on a road bike, and even going with wider tyres does not prevent the beautiful paint against scratches

Other than road going pursuits, heading out on a mtb singletrack is another means of enhancing the overall ride experience and allows me to break free from the constraints of the road. I really do find that both disciplines work well together. It also gets me to places where I couldn’t imagine reaching on a gravel let alone a road bike. I think that mtbs are also great for endurance and muscle building just as road bikes are excellent for cardio. Winter, for the most part, doesn’t stop me and this will be the second season of fatbiking on the local snowy trails.

 

[PSm]

As always, the number of bikes you need (want) is N+1, but I’ve found you can always do more with the bikes you have already…

- Motor off more often, as mentioned
- Improving your pedaling technique and smoothness, including high cadence spinning
- Improving climbing technique, including out of saddle hill climbing at lower speed, using your own weight to help you up hills
- Improving your aero position on the bike, for faster descents with less effort
- Bike fit of course
- Minor equipment/kit upgrades, like better and lower rolling resistance tires, waxed or wet waxed chain, more handlebar padding for comfort, better cycling shoes, more comfortable gloves, comfortable saddle, gearing, lighter wheels (but $$$)
- More attention to nutrition and hydration on the longer rides (especially 3+ hours)
- Off bike strength training
- Enough carbs in days before long (50-100 mile), intense rides
- Protein after big rides

All that said, I’m the happiest on my traditional single speed bike, with the low weight and almost no maintenance, and almost silent (except when freewheel coasting) with a waxed chain. Might treat myself to some ultra lightweight wheels, to get it down to 16 lbs. My dream bike would probably be a titanium single speed weight weenied down to 13 lbs, if that was possible?

 

[m@Robertson]

My dream bike would probably be a titanium single speed weight weenied down to 13 lbs, if that was possible?

I found titanium to be a mixed blessing. Its more flexible than I would like in a bike frame. Something I noticed in hard cornering with an uneven surface underneath me. Its positive attributes are all that you'd expect, but that woogediness under stress was unexpected. I bought the frame and built it up in late 2017, and while I still have it and will keep it forever, I won't buy another one.

 

[PSm]

I found titanium to be a mixed blessing. Its more flexible than I would like in a bike frame. Something I noticed in hard cornering with an uneven surface underneath me. Its positive attributes are all that you'd expect, but that woogediness under stress was unexpected. I bought the frame and built it up in late 2017, and while I still have it and will keep it forever, I won't buy another one.

Great to know that about titanium, thanks! The flexing under stress would be a deal-breaker for me, for those times where I’d be high speed cornering on uneven surfaces. The track bike geometry is already agressive, so wouldn’t want it to be any less stable. Once again, that’ll allow me to focus on what I have already and making the most of it, rather than obsessing about another bike

 

[Djangodog]

Great to know that about titanium, thanks! The flexing under stress would be a deal-breaker for me, for those times where I’d be high speed cornering on uneven surfaces. The track bike geometry is already agressive, so wouldn’t want it to be any less stable. Once again, that’ll allow me to focus on what I have already and making the most of it, rather than obsessing about another bike

Titanium can be more flexible than desired, but it depends a lot on the alloy and tube shape. I was approximately 165 pounds when I had my Litespeed Ultimate, (a 2003 model). It was plenty stiff where it needed to be, but it had nice vertical compliance. I could hammer pretty hard back then.

I think that larger riders had more issues and I remember hearing complaints about the Merlin Xtralight frames flexing and twisting during sprints, hard cornering and hard climbing, (enough to make them shift).

 

[gromike]

I might be doing it wrong, but for some reason I went from pedal bikes to ebikes.

That being said, I bought a 2007 Specialized Roubaix for a hundred bucks last winter. It is the fastest bicycle I have ever ridden. That thing is scary fast going downhill.

 

[Stefan Mikes]

I might be doing it wrong, but for some reason I went from pedal bikes to ebikes.

E-bikes have given me a second life. Back in August 2019, my medical condition prevented me from riding traditional bikes; I can remember my attempt to ride for the total of 5 km on my hybrid bike that left me totally exhausted, with the bad leg hurting badly. One, two, then three e-bikes in my quiver between Aug '19 and May '20 and a lot of assistance allowed me riding more and more. I appreciated the advanced bicycle technology I got together with my e-bikes (think of thru-axles, hydraulic disk brakes, 1x drivetrain, etc).

As an EBR Forum member, I learned of Specialized SL e-bikes. In early 2021, I was still thinking a diamond-frame, low power and small battery e-bike was not for me. A single demo ride on a Vado SL made me want such an e-bike, and actually I bought one in June 2021. Now, I owned as many as four e-bikes, the maintenance expenses started piling up but because of an accident I did not have storage space anymore. The e-MTB went to my brother as a family gift, and a friend is riding my hub-drive e-bike. I was left with just two e-bikes: a heavy/fast, and a lightweight/slower one.

• 2018: 45.5 km on a traditional bike
• 2019: 1274 km on e-bikes and 126 km on a traditional bike
• 2020: 8094 km
• 2021: 10120 km
• 2022: 8438 km
• 2023: 9733 km YTD.

The part of my experience was riding with gravel cycling groups and completing a 263 km gravel ultramarathon this year. As an e-biker, I did not take a place in the race. What I, however, discovered was I needed a very lightweight bike (to be carried at a distance or uphill). Moreover, a traditional bike means no range anxiety

E-bikes made me fit enough to attempt riding a traditional bicycle again. That's the greatest benefit e-bikes gave me.

February 2019. I was not big. I was wide

Exactly 4 years since the start of riding e-bikes

I absolutely appreciate riding an e-bike. Like my last night's ride for beverages to the service station. I could happily pedal my Vado SL in the OFF mode, with a short 35/35% ECO burst to help me negotiate an overpass. Yes, that's the way to go for me!

 

[AvalancheRun]

It's as stupid as it gets from op.
This an ebike forum why would anybody want to change change to regular pedal from bionic.

This is among the most enjoyable threads I’ve read on EBR and quite relevant to those interested in bikes of all types.

 

[WildPaul]

View attachment 164470
Exactly 4 years since the start of riding e-bikes

Woah, Stefan! You’re ripped bro!!

 

[Djangodog]

It's as stupid as it gets from op.
This an ebike forum why would anybody want to change change to regular pedal from bionic.

Both have benefits and shortcomings. It depends what you seek from your riding experience. I still enjoy both and hope that I can continue to ride both.

For Stefan, the ebike has improved his fitness to the point where he may be able to expand his riding experience to include unassisted cycling. I think that is great and I am happy for him.

For the record, I think that this has been a good and relevant topic. Thanks Stefan.

 

[Stefan Mikes]

@Prairie Dog: Why didn't you tell me about Scott Metrix bikes? A very interesting ride!

 

[Djangodog]

Okay
I'm spoiled with the tourqe multiplication. My biking legs are not conditioned to pedal a normal un powered mtb anymore. I find it difficult to ride at such a slow speed and over correcting.
With motor I can back pedal position to download stroke and I can easily make it over humps.

I think that you proved Stefan’s point.