Wearing out drivetrain in a 9 speed mid drive

[RESTLESSSWIND]

It seems that I can't get a smooth indexing sequence on my 2020 Vado 3.0
It started when I only had a couple hundred miles. I shifted from 9 to 8 under fully assisted load at a very slow speed. Busted the 11 tooth cog on the low end shimano cassette. I replaced the cassette with a Deore 9 speed. Everything seemed fine, but the 8 to 9 shift seemed to not shift smoothly. Would always stick until I back and forth pedaled. No big deal. Fast forward to 3000 miles. I decided it was time for a new chain. I put in a KMC x9 . I am having a heck of a time with indexing. I changed out the jockey wheels and bought a SRAM cassette. Things are a little bit better, but I think the deraileur is wearing out already (Aliveo). It seems to look like new still, but I think the outward tension of the mechanism is getting "soft". I'm not so sure I want a mid drive again with a derailleur. Seems too much torque on the rear axle transmission. Thoughts? Ideas? Should I be replacing cassette and derailleur every 3000 miles? Shifter and cable movement seems to be fine. It was indexing fine until I changed the chain. Hmmm....

 

[rich c]

How often do you oil the chain? Have you ever adjusted the stops on the derailleur? How can a derailleur wear out that soon? The gear never leaves the engagement of the chain, very little wear on it. Sounds to me like a visit to the dealer and watch over the mechanic's shoulder while he does a full adjustment would be of real benefit to you. I changed my chain on my Haibike at 2,500 miles, everything else is original on a 2016 model at 3,800 miles. I'm a fanatic about cleaning and lubing the drivetrain.

 

[Nova Haibike]

The very first thing you should check is the derailleur alignment. A bent hanger or derailleur will never shift properly.Next would be the cable and housing. While it may seem fine, there can definitely be problems there. Make sure the ferrules on the ends of housing are not bent or cracked; I dare say a vast majority of bikes sold have too short a piece of housing at the rear, causing the ferrule to bend unnaturally and cause extra friction.

Also, if you are riding almost exclusively on the top two cogs in full assist, and you only changed the chain, there is a good chance the new chain is not playing well with the old cogs. You may not experience skipping, but the chain might not utilize the CAD shifting teeth as well if the are somewhat worn. Small cogs are not meant to be ridden on for thousands of miles; adding power to the system only makes then wear even faster.

 

[indianajo]

How often do you oil the chain?. I changed my chain on my Haibike at 2,500 miles, everything else is original on a 2016 model at 3,800 miles. I'm a fanatic about cleaning and lubing the drivetrain.

The only time I clean the chain is when it has grass stems & seeds in it, also string. I use a flat blade screwdriver to clean, no solvents. Oily dirt builds up on takeup pulleys & sprockets; I scrape it off. I got 5000 miles out of the first chain, 3/32" 8 speed. I oil it biweekly with type F ATF. Hub drive, wear on the chain is from my feet. I ride unpowered 90% of the time. Sprockets are fine, SRAM shifter is precise. Broke a sun shift cable, now using jaguar coated SS cable in jaguar housing.

 

[Sierratim]

The very first thing you should check is the derailleur alignment. A bent hanger or derailleur will never shift properly.Next would be the cable and housing. While it may seem fine, there can definitely be problems there. Make sure the ferrules on the ends of housing are not bent or cracked; I dare say a vast majority of bikes sold have too short a piece of housing at the rear, causing the ferrule to bend unnaturally and cause extra friction.

Also, if you are riding almost exclusively on the top two cogs in full assist, and you only changed the chain, there is a good chance the new chain is not playing well with the old cogs. You may not experience skipping, but the chain might not utilize the CAD shifting teeth as well if the are somewhat worn. Small cogs are not meant to be ridden on for thousands of miles; adding power to the system only makes then wear even faster.

I agree. Breaking a cog tooth takes a lot of force. It more than likely damaged the chain at that time. Continuing to use the chain probably damaged the cassette as well. A new chain at 3,000 miles wasn't enough. A new cassette sometime after that seems to have helped but the 'new' chain should be suspect now as it was running with a worn out/damaged cassette. I'd start fresh changing the chain and cassette at the same time. I wouldn't think the derailleur is involved, but it does need regular cleaning and a good lube.

For mid-drive ebikes it is important to let up on the pedal force when shifting to prevent this type of damage. You also need to keep the drive components cleaned and lubed and check chain wear regularly. The other drive components should outlast a number of chains as long as they are maintained as well.

 

[RESTLESSSWIND]

At lunch I was observing and noticed the chain was catching/sticking as it was exiting the front chainring. Seems the old chain wore it's self deep into the ring, causing the new chain to stick. This only happens on full power assist. That was the noise I thought was a chain rub on the derailleur. I always keep the drive train clean. However, I think if I'm riding at a high assist for commuting, I need to change the chain out more often than 3K miles. More like 1000 miles max.
$80 new chainring and $30 install.

 

[RESTLESSSWIND]

BTW, I was new when I busted the cog. I realized what had happened and didn't let that happen again. I do agree to replace the chain more than seems necessary. This stuff wears at much higher rates than human powered legs only.

 

[Nova Haibike]

At lunch I was observing and noticed the chain was catching/sticking as it was exiting the front chainring. Seems the old chain wore it's self deep into the ring, causing the new chain to stick.

I have not seen a Vado in person, but I am going to assume it has a narrow/wide chainring. The chain will stick if you did not install the new chain on the ring properly; the inner links of the chain need to engage the narrow teeth of the ring (and the outer links need to engage the wide teeth).

 

[RESTLESSSWIND]

I have not seen a Vado in person, but I am going to assume it has a narrow/wide chainring. The chain will stick if you did not install the new chain on the ring properly; the inner links of the chain need to engage the narrow teeth of the ring (and the outer links need to engage the wide teeth).

I see what you are saying. I noticed the Narrow/Wide teeth. It is in the proper teeth, but I never checked that before, and it could have been off a link for a while now (prior to today when I reattached the chain to the ring). It is still sticking, unfortunately.
EDIT: The chain will not seat at all if in the narrow/wide is off a link...it slips into place regardless.

 

[Sierratim]

At lunch I was observing and noticed the chain was catching/sticking as it was exiting the front chainring. Seems the old chain wore it's self deep into the ring, causing the new chain to stick. This only happens on full power assist. That was the noise I thought was a chain rub on the derailleur. I always keep the drive train clean. However, I think if I'm riding at a high assist for commuting, I need to change the chain out more often than 3K miles. More like 1000 miles max.
$80 new chainring and $30 install.

Yep, sounds like a new ring, too. I change my ebike chains just about every 1,000 miles to protect the other drive components and prevent any issues on the trail. Cheap insurance. Never had a failure on a ride, at least not a with the drive train!

BTW - there have been several recent posts re DIY chain ring change outs on the Vado. You might save a few $ if you want to take it on.