Can I change derailleurs?

[Nvreloader]

Guys
I have these derailleurs,
Wart Hog - Rear Derailleur = SRAM X-5 - 9 speed - DNP 13- 34t with a Med cage length.
Juggs - Rear Derailleur = Shimano Alivio - 9 speed - 11- 34t with a Long cage length.

I am beginning to hate this Juggs setup,
There is some thing going on and I can't seem to find the problem, every time I take the Juggs off road/rough rocky trails, I am hearing a loud popping noise coming from the derailleur/cassette area, it doesn't make a difference if I am pedaling or using very lite throttle in the 5-10 mph range.
Sounds like the chain is jumping a tooth/gear.
When I stop every time and check this area out, I can find NOTHING wrong, with anything.
The only difference I can see between these derailleurs is the WH as about 1/4" side to side movement/slop (1st gear) as compared to the Jugg derailleur (1st gear) which has over 1"+ of side movement/slop, of the bottom Boogie wheel, and the difference in cage lengths. All the screws/bolts are tight and nothing seems to be bent or out of place etc.

Will a SRAM X - 5, 9 speed derailleur fit/replace the Shimano Alivio derailleur and work OK?
I have measured the spacing between the cassette gears and it's the same spacing for either brand, with the only difference is the tooth count in 9th gear and cage lengths.
I don't have this problem with the Wart Hog set up and it has over 1200 miles on it compared to 45 miles for the Juggs.
Your thoughts and suggestions........
Tia

 

[fooferdoggie]

did you check your chains for wear? getting this guy and the doer shifter would help a lot I bet alivo is pretty cheap. you cant really change between brands unless your free hub is able to handle it. then you would have. ot have a cassette chain shifter and Derailleur

Amazon.com

 

[Aushiker]

lot I bet alivo is pretty cheap.

I would rate it as being on a level one step higher than a no-name Shimano derailleur, so yeah, cheap and personally not something I would put on a bike of mine.

Not that is going to help the OP.

 

[rob feature]

Sounds like you need something with a a clutch. And make sure you have a narrow-wide chainring.

Check this out

 

[Nvreloader]

Well Guys,
I have been doing some careful measurements, between the Wart Hog - Rear Derailleur = SRAM X-5 - 9 speed - DNP 13- 34t with a Med cage length and the
Juggs - Rear Derailleur = Shimano Alivio - 9 speed - 11- 34t with a Long cage length.

They both have the same measurement for 1 click of movement thru their 9 speed ranges which equals approximately .100" per click.
So, I believe that both of the derailleurs are a 1 TO 1 click valve.

Now, I have to figure out if I can used a Med length cage on the Juggs (has long cage -vs- WH is med cage), both have the same tooth count on the cassette.
Measurement of the center to center of the cage boogie wheels,
Is 3.930" for the Jugg (Long cage) and the WH (Med cage) is 2.950."
The only real difference that I have found so far is, the Juggs derailleur mounts to a silver piece and then that piece goes to the frame, the WH derailleur mounts direct to the frame.
I want to have a SRAM X5 derailleur on the Juggs, with the Juggs speed selector, which the WH does not have, the WH has never given me any problems in over 1200 miles+ of rough trail riding.
I haven't got even 50 miles on the Juggs and it acting up.

Yours thoughts and suggestions........

 

[fooferdoggie]

you cant really mix component brands sometimes you can fit one cassette onto another freewheel depending but the ramps on the cassette and the way they hit is different. the movement has to be exact thats why things can. be so finicky till its setup right. yon only need a long cage getting into the 40 tooth range

 

[indianajo]

My yubabike came with a shimano 8 speed cassette and a SRAM 8 speed S3 derailleur. The 8 speed shifters seem to produce 8 steps in 1 inch of the cable travel, whoever made it. 9 speed may be different, but I doubt it.

 

[fooferdoggie]

My yubabike came with a shimano 8 speed cassette and a SRAM 8 speed S3 derailleur. The 8 speed shifters seem to produce 8 steps in 1 inch of the cable travel, whoever made it. 9 speed may be different, but I doubt it.

8 speed are not super dialed in the narrower you get the more it changes.

 

[Nvreloader]

When I turned my bike over (Juggs) to do some more checking/measuring of everything, I found that it has a shift sensor on it. The WH does not have one. Back to reading some more.

 

[Captain Slow]

I believe the cable pull between Shimano and SRAM is different.

However, there's likely a JTek Shiftmate that will work for your set up.

https://www.peterwhitecycles.com/Shiftmate.php

My work computer wouldn't allow me to visit the JTek site directly, but they have a compatibility chart that will let you know if they have a solution for your particular set up and what model you'd need if they have a solution.

 

[PedalUma]

My bet is that it is both the chain and freewheel cluster that need replacement. The derailleur is not the real issue.

 

[Nvreloader]

Ped
Why do you say that?
This a brand new bike, less than 50 miles on it.
This derailleur popping sound has did it since day1.
IMHO,
I believe that this Juggs 4 derailleur is one step above useless,
it is very flimsy in construction etc.
Your thoughts and suggestions......
Thanks Don

 

[fooferdoggie]

Ped
Why do you say that?
This a brand new bike, less than 50 miles on it.
This derailleur popping sound has did it since day1.
IMHO, I believe that this Juggs 4 derailleur is one step above useless, it is very flimsy in construction etc.
Your thoughts and suggestions......
Thanks Don

if it is making noise something is wonky. it should go at least a few thousand miles before having real issues.

 

[PedalUma]

Ped
Why do you say that?
This a brand new bike, less than 50 miles on it.
This derailleur popping sound has did it since day1.
IMHO,
I believe that this Juggs 4 derailleur is one step above useless,
it is very flimsy in construction etc.
Your thoughts and suggestions......
Thanks Don

Check the DHAG or hanger alignment in all dimensions. It might have been bumped. A channel lock can be used to straighten the hanger if it is visually off. How vertical is the derailleur/chain in a middle gear with the corresponding cog? That is a barrel adjustment.

 

[Nvreloader]

Thanks Ped
Well,
I have a bent derailleur cage, like a slight "S" shape between the boogie wheels.
I'll buy a new derailleur/shifter which will be a Sram X5 model,
9 speed same as the Wart Hog has.

The large cassette gear is 34t on both the WH and Jugg 4 bike.
The WH has a MED cage length and the Juggs has a LONG cage length.

Can I use a Sram X5 MED cage on the Juggs bike?
Or do I have to use a long cage? (The OEM Jugg cage is long.)

I'll install a new shifter/derailleur Sram X5 parts etc.

What should I be aware of when installing these new parts?
Your thoughts and suggestions...
Tia

 

[PedalUma]

Thanks Ped
Well,
I have a bent derailleur cage, like a slight "S" shape between the boogie wheels.
I'll buy a new derailleur/shifter which will be a Sram X5 model,
9 speed same as the Wart Hog has.

The large cassette gear is 34t on both the WH and Jugg 4 bike.
The WH has a MED cage length and the Juggs has a LONG cage length.

Can I use a Sram X5 MED cage on the Juggs bike?
Or do I have to use a long cage? (The OEM Jugg cage is long.)

I'll install a new shifter/derailleur Sram X5 parts etc.

What should I be aware of when installing these new parts?
Your thoughts and suggestions...
Tia

I like to set the high and low limit screws before installing the chain and before securing the shift cable. Use grease on the hanger threads. See that the derailleur jockey wheels vertically align with the outer, small cog, then push it in to the largest cog. That should also align without overshooting. Normally the higher set screw is for the the high gear limit. For the B-screw I like to see that at least 5 teeth are engaged with high gear. See the Park Tool vid on chain sizing. I like to install the quick link with the chain off of the chainring, so I am not fighting the tension. A very small flat head screwdriver can easily spread the quick link enough to engage it. Then with the chain on the ring slam the crank with your palm and it will click. It could also be a good time to get oil down the shift housing. I like CLP with the needle from an auto parts store. A needle nose vice grip is handy to help set cable tension. When that is right a middle gear will be aligned. Oh, 34-t is not that big. I need a long cage for 47-50.

 

[Nvreloader]

Ped
Thank you for that information,
Awaiting the parts to get here, then I'll change over to the
Sram X5 9 speed parts.
I'll be reviewing those park video's several times, pertaining to the proper setting up these parts, never done this before, so I'll have some problems I suppose, I hope not, but I am getting prepared.

When you say a middle gear, do you mean 4 gears in from each end/side, being the 5 gear as the middle?
Tia,
Don

 

[TrevorB]

Being new bike the shop be able sort it under warranty.
If mail order then good chance Alivio hasn't been setup correctly or damaged in shipping.
I'd start with Youtube videos on setup derailleur.
While Alivio isn't high performance derailleur they are top of Shimano 9spd range definitely step up from Acera.

As a rule not a good idea to mix component brands on drive train. Don't be surprised if using a SRAM derailleur with Shimano cassette and chain doesn't workout.

 

[PedalUma]

These things on the middle of the road stuff are standardized. It is the more exotic stuff such as GRX that are not, so you run into cross compatibility issues.

 

[Nvreloader]

Well, I got the rear derailleur and 386 hanger and the shifter should be here today.
I hoisted my Jugg 4 bike up to where I could sit in a chair and started comparing the Sram X5 9 sp rear derailleur with/against the Juggs derailleur and found a problem.

The Juggs bike has 2 derailleur hangers, a normal 386 hanger and off this hanger is another long looking thinner figure 8 looking hanger that the OEM derailleur is attached to, angled down at the 7-8 o'clock position.

Hey Ped, is this normal?
What do you call the second derailleur hanger?

Should I replace it also, as I have a NEW 386 hanger to replace the OEM one, just in case it is bent also?

Tia,
Don