Wanted volunteers: Tributes for Custom Quiet Gears for Ultra

[AHicks]

You should give up the grudge, it is not good for your health
Bafang decided it was worth for them to have a steel gear, and decided it was not worth supporting both nylon and steel.

I can understand that you are frustrated with the later, but ultimately that was Bafang decision.
Have you contacted Bafang directly to see if they would sell you one?

Kind of like the case gasket availability - crickets.

I've accepted the fact there are no nylon gears available for the Ultra, but only begrudgingly. I think there are quite a few others that are like me, who would have liked a vote in the matter....

 

[TForan]

I think that might depend on your options. I actually like the motor and the bike. Given a quieter option that was within reason, I'd take it in a heart beat.

With no option, I'm good. There's enough upside with this motor to make it tolerable as is. It's just frustrating to know Bafang had it right when they brought it out, only to have it changed by "expert" opinions....

I guess noise really bothers me. I want to listen to wildlife, while I'm riding. I couldn't wait to get those knobbies off .

 

[slocoach]

@pushkar are you still looking for volunteers?
I'd be happy experimenting to optimize for quiet (in addition to cush) with my Hydra build. Order #1358

 

[pushkar]

We built a 3-4 prototypes, but have found that 1900-2000W is a service ceiling with PEEK, carbon infused PEEK etc etc. We can consistently break (twist / melt .. not shear) them at 2300W nominal.

We are on our third iteration, but realistically PEEK / Silent gears are better fit for lower wattages. We can build you one for sure - but there appears to be a significant performance trade off.

 

[slocoach]

Ah, thanks for sharing. I'll pass given I need the power to get up all the hills around here.

 

[Gionnirocket]

Ah, thanks for sharing. I'll pass given I need the power to get up all the hills around here.

If you need 1900w.. or more than 1000w for that matter... Maybe it's time to lose some weight

 

[slocoach]

If you need 1900w.. or more than 1000w for that matter... Maybe it's time to lose some weight

I don't get the comment, maybe I'm missing something.
Is there a breakdown of what the different wattages provide and the situations where they are most helpful?

 

[Gionnirocket]

I don't get the comment, maybe I'm missing something.
Is there a breakdown of what the different wattages provide and the situations where they are most helpful?

Sorry... I was joking with you.
I guess it all depends on what you are trying to achieve.
The standard 1000w of the Ultra is more than enough to carry a rider up hills. Above that you're in the high performance range.

 

[slocoach]

Sorry... I was joking with you.
I guess it all depends on what you are trying to achieve.
The standard 1000w of the Ultra is more than enough to carry a rider up hills. Above that you're in the high performance range.

No worries, I'm slow sometimes (maybe alot). What does high performance mean?

 

[Gionnirocket]

No worries, I'm slow sometimes (maybe alot). What does high performance mean?

Competition, racing.. etc..
Think of it as a race car at that point with higher maintenance and parts replacement expected.

 

[Ebiker33]

We built a 3-4 prototypes, but have found that 1900-2000W is a service ceiling with PEEK, carbon infused PEEK etc etc. We can consistently break (twist / melt .. not shear) them at 2300W nominal.

We are on our third iteration, but realistically PEEK / Silent gears are better fit for lower wattages. We can build you one for sure - but there appears to be a significant performance trade off.

But it would work with 1000W X1 correct?
My point is I would be willing to sacrifice some power to reduce motor noise, it's a worthy compromise, I imagine that would also need the restricted throttle as well to not spike the power.

 

[TDA78]

We built a 3-4 prototypes, but have found that 1900-2000W is a service ceiling with PEEK, carbon infused PEEK etc etc. We can consistently break (twist / melt .. not shear) them at 2300W nominal.

We are on our third iteration, but realistically PEEK / Silent gears are better fit for lower wattages. We can build you one for sure - but there appears to be a significant performance trade off.

I would still buy the final product for my pending 1000W Hydra.

 

[AHicks]

We built a 3-4 prototypes, but have found that 1900-2000W is a service ceiling with PEEK, carbon infused PEEK etc etc. We can consistently break (twist / melt .. not shear) them at 2300W nominal.

We are on our third iteration, but realistically PEEK / Silent gears are better fit for lower wattages. We can build you one for sure - but there appears to be a significant performance trade off.

Count me in with those that would be (more than) happy running our Ultra's within the mfg's specs. (1500w? tops), ESPECIALLY if that could be done reducing/eliminating the well known metal gear noise. Are you saying you have access to a composite gear of some sort that would hold up as well as that original G510 (Ultra) composite/plastic gear?

 

[Ebiker33]

Count me in with those that would be (more than) happy running our Ultra's within the mfg's specs. (1500w? tops), ESPECIALLY if that could be done reducing/eliminating the well known metal gear noise. Are you saying you have access to a composite gear of some sort that would hold up as well as that original G510 (Ultra) composite/plastic gear?

Fact, LUNA has already done it for the M600 and the BBSHD which has the same torque rating as the Ultra in standard PEEK plastic which is way harder than nylon but not for the Ultra.
Carbon infused PEEK is used in the aerospace industry when something as hard as metal is needed but can't be used for whatever reason, it's even harder than what Luna is using.
As far as I know WW will be the very first Ebike company to bring a PEEK gear with carbon infusion to market. This is a game changer if it works, forget about using this on the 2300W X1 but if it works as intended on the 1000W X1 with restricted throttle it will be great.

"I took the bike for a test ride this morning up some hills and was super impressed on how much more quiet the motor was."

"Silent! Makes less noise at high load than the nylon gear"

Two comments from Ebikers who had both the old nylon gear and the new PEEK gear on the BBSHD, so we know it makes less noise than the steel gear, but there is even an improvement over the nylon gear which is amazing.
And the BBSHD is known to have less noise from OEM compared to the Ultra to start off with. So I don't know if you will ever get it that silient, but we have an EBR member that still has his nylon gear on his Ultra that says his motor is very quite, he also doesn't have a throttle on his Ebike, and that is why I think his weaker nylon gear has survived all this time.

 

[AHicks]

Fact, LUNA has already done it for the M600 and the BBSHD which has the same torque rating as the Ultra in standard PEEK plastic which is way harder than nylon but not for the Ultra.
Carbon infused PEEK is used in the aerospace industry when something as hard as metal is needed but can't be used for whatever reason, it's even harder than what Luna is using.
As far as I know WW will be the very first Ebike company to bring a PEEK gear with carbon infusion to market. This is a game changer if it works, forget about using this on the 2300W X1 but if it works as intended on the 1000W X1 with restricted throttle it will be great.

"I took the bike for a test ride this morning up some hills and was super impressed on how much more quiet the motor was."

"Silent! Makes less noise at high load than the nylon gear"

Two comments from Ebikers who had both the old nylon gear and the new PEEK gear on the BBSHD, so we know it makes less noise than the steel gear, but there is even an improvement over the nylon gear which is amazing.

I'm already familiar with what Luna has available. The question was/is, is there a gear available for a stock Ultra? Pushcar mentioned he can build one?

 

[Ebiker33]

I'm already familiar with what Luna has available. The question was/is, is there a gear available for a stock Ultra? Pushcar mentioned he can build one?

I think he answered that question with
"We can build you one for sure - but there appears to be a significant performance trade off."
The trade off seems to be no 2300W X1 and restricted throttle, but Pushkar needs to confirm this, he seem to be implying it.

 

[pushkar]

I think he answered that question with
"We can build you one for sure - but there appears to be a significant performance trade off."
The trade off seems to be no 2300W X1 and restricted throttle, but Pushkar needs to confirm this, he seem to be implying it.

For Bafang Ultra,
The max that PEEK can do (absolute wattage) sustained is 1900W. This is slightly higher than the 100W nominal/ 1700W peak of the current stock controller.
The throttle needs to be (absolute wattage) at 1000W (i.e. for a 52V battery, no more than ~20A is flowing through the throttle).

 

[AHicks]

I don't mean to come across as nasty, but both of you are skipping over the question regarding availability of a gear for the ULTRA. I don't care about performance trade offs at amperage/wattage levels my bike will never see! My max amps are set at 30 in the controller set up, and I rarely ever see/use more than 1100-1200w as indicated on my display - to get what I consider as way over the top performance

Easy question guys. Yes or no? Do you have a source for a gear that will hold up as well as the original composite G510 gear did?

Maybe I'm nuts, but I think a LOT of people would be interested in a gear that would quiet their STOCK Ultra's if it were available at a reasonable price. -Al

 

[pushkar]

I don't mean to come across as nasty, but both of you are skipping over the question regarding availability of a gear for the ULTRA. I don't care about performance trade offs at amperage/wattage levels my bike will never see! My max amps are set at 30 in the controller set up, and I rarely ever see/use more than 1100-1200w as indicated on my display - to get what I consider as way over the top performance

May be something is getting lost in translation. I clearly specified that this is for the bafang ultra.
Please note that the stock display wattage is more a guideline and not necessarily accurate (with the default, stock bafang ultra controller). You may have larger wattage pulls but you are only seeing some of the wattage readings due to lower sampling rates of the stock controller.

Easy question guys. Yes or no? Do you have a source for a gear that will hold up as well as the original composite G510 gear did?

The original composite gear for the G510 did work but not consistently. We are producing that gear with a few additional modifications.

Maybe I'm nuts, but I think a LOT of people would be interested in a gear that would quiet their STOCK Ultra's if it were available at a reasonable price. -Al

Price at bulk will be $100 - $125.

Availability is ~60 days out - will post it for sale around Sep 1st.

 

[AHicks]

Simply awesome! Sorry to be a pain. That's pretty much exactly what I wanted to hear. You can count on having at least one sold!

Thanks! -Al