Waiting 15 months for a refund, messages being ignored… Any advice?

[MC76]

I ordered an archon x1 motor, and then a Hydra frame, suspension components and brakes in August and September 2021. I tried to cancel the shock and fork soon after as during the pandemic Pushkar couldn’t guarantee their availability and was told I’d get my money back when the rest of my ordered shipped. When repeated delays occurred and I was having trouble communicating with Watt Wagons I cancelled the rest of my order in late October 2021.

Pushkar told me I would have my refund in 90 days. Many many messages later I eventually received $2000, then another $2000 some months later. I am still owed $2850, the last installment I received was 7ish months ago, and now Pushkar will not respond to my messages. He rejected a PayPal request, and will not even do my the courtesy of explaining why he will not return the rest of my money.

I understand there have been a lot of financial challenges for small businesses in the last few years. I have been patient and courteous. I do no know what to do to get my money back! I realize I am not alone in this situation. Any advice would be welcome!

 

[scrambler]

Why the double posting?

 

[Tom@WashDC]

I "briefly" read the current Binding Arbitration rules in the Watt Wagon Terms of Service. According to the American Arbitration Association rules, Watt Wagons or "the business" must pay the majority of the arbitrator's fee in a Consumer case. If your case is as "cut and dry" as you describe, I'm sure you will win the case. Binding Arbitration is your only legal recourse at this point. Read your terms and conditions.

You should contact https://www.adr.org/ and at least find out the procedure. It's pretty simple and I have seen it work in action. You have nothing to lose except the filing fee. You may even be able to have the case heard by video or just through forwarding documentation with the Arbitrator.

I's likely that if you file the case, Watt Wagons/Pushkar may just pay you the outstanding debt. His case fees are pretty high compared to the outstanding debt.

 

[MC76]

Why the double posting?

By accident, sorry!

 

[MC76]

I "briefly" read the current Binding Arbitration rules in the Watt Wagon Terms of Service. According to the American Arbitration Association rules, Watt Wagons or "the business" must pay the majority of the arbitrator's fee in a Consumer case. If your case is as "cut and dry" as you describe, I'm sure you will win the case. Binding Arbitration is your only legal recourse at this point. Read your terms and conditions.

You should contact https://www.adr.org/ and at least find out the procedure. It's pretty simple and I have seen it work in action. You have nothing to lose except the filing fee. You may even be able to have the case heard by video or just through forwarding documentation with the Arbitrator.

I's likely that if you file the case, Watt Wagons/Pushkar may just pay you the outstanding debt. His case fees are pretty high compared to the outstanding debt.

Thank you, this is very helpful

 

[MC76]

Wattwagons are coming around on delivering Factory Tuned Super Emtbs.
Maybe refreshing your order and follow through. . If Innotrace controlled Bafang is what your dream emtb is. Then so be it.

Thanks, but I built up a bike I love months ago now, really just want to get the rest of my money back. I’m glad to hear that others are getting to enjoy their bikes!

 

[TPEHAK]

Now I'm scared to buy from Watt Wagon.

Did you ask Watt Wagon if they have the items in stock and ready to ship before you ordered those items or you just ordered and then realized the items are not in stock?

 

[MC76]

Now I'm scared to buy from Watt Wagon.

Did you ask Watt Wagon if they have the items in stock and ready to ship before you ordered those items or you just ordered and then realized the items are not in stock?

I knew there was going to be a bit of a wait, but the communication about ongoing delays was pretty bad.

 

[Ebiker33]

This is sad, and it poisons the well for future buyers.

 

[duckdodgers391]

I ordered a bike in late November and Support at Watts Wagon stopped responding after December 4th. This is starting to get scary for me as well.

 

[Tom@WashDC]

Based on everything in the forums that I have read, assuming it is true, at a minimum it seems that Watt Wagons/Pushkar is undercapitalized, unethical, and deliberately dodging customers that are owed services or money. There is no excuse for not communicating with clients whom you owe services or money. I would stay away from this outfit regardless of the bikes they are producing. If he lacks the funds to issue refunds on demand, for this many times, and for this long, he should not be in business.

 

[Masejoer]

They will respond to you, until they know who you are. Then you will be ghosted, whether by email, postal mail, website messaging, text, or phone (voice mails). Over the last year I've been collecting all evidence regarding this situation for the court.

I'm at 32 days past verified receipt of two certified demand letters (yes, plural, for reasons), and I'm only waiting a few more days for any potential refund check to arrive. Not holding my breath. Legal filings will be submitted next week if no response is received soon.

You're not alone. Feel free to reach out if you need some guidance on legal recourse, and how legal costs will work out.

 

[MC76]

Wow, I’m really sorry to hear that! If I don’t get a response soon I will reach out to you for advice, thank you for the offer.

 

[duckdodgers391]

As will I!! Its coming up on 30 days now and no news. The last response I got from a tech was they got frames in and were starting to put bikes together and sent me a stock photo of an incomplete bike frame.

 

[TPEHAK]

So as I understand Watt Wagon did not have the items you purchased in stock and they order the parts only after they received the money from the buyer?

Has anybody experienced a situation when you asked Watt Wagon prior the purchase if they have the item in stock and they answered positive and then you executed the purchase but they did not deliver the item to you or delivered the item with significant delay?

 

[duckdodgers391]

When I first spoke to sales via the Watt Wagon website Tim said they were on hand. Under the support FAQ they say 2 weeks to ship. Once it goes to the shipper they are not responsible for the shipping times.

 

[TPEHAK]

When I first spoke to sales via the Watt Wagon website Tim said they were on hand. Under the support FAQ they say 2 weeks to ship. Once it goes to the shipper they are not responsible for the shipping times.

So within 2 weeks they must provide at least the tracking number and the shipper company name for the item they gave to the shipper. And using the tracking number and the shipper online service you should be able to see what is going on with your item.

 

[Cuz Vinny]

Gonna add my two cents to this post. Take it for what you will. I’m not going to comment much on the lack of communication piece but only to say I’ve experienced similar with other companies. Seems to be more common nowadays.

As for the bikes, I have two of them, both Hydras. I can tell you they are well worth the wait. First bike I bought was a complete bike. Can’t remember the exact wait time but it was within six to eight months. The second bike wasnt a complete bike but a frame kit which included the frame/motor/battery and all hardware. I waited four months to get the kit and did the process of sourcing all my parts and final assembly. Highly recommend doing this if you can. Your total investment will be higher than if you purchased a complete bike but you get to pick the exact parts you want and you will know the bike inside out since you assembled it. The Fat Hydra pictured started as the frame kit. It’s a beast, waaaay better than any store bought cookie cutter bike you could buy.

What someone needs to understand in purchasing one of these bikes is they are custom built. Not all the parts are in stock and need to be ordered. So there is additional wait time for these parts to come in. WW can’t do anything about delivery times from other vendors or parts availability. I’m building a Gravel Bike and I’m having a hard time getting parts that I want for it and I’ve had to make substitutions as some parts just aren’t available.

I love my two Hydras and wouldn’t hesitate to buy from WW again in the future. I love the new X Tour bike. Knowing what I know now I’d buy a frame kit and cut down my wait time and initial expense. Then I’d build it up using parts from my Buzzraw X.

Not making excuses for lack of communication or long refund wait times but the bikes are well worth the money and waaay beyond any store bought bike in terms of quality and performance.

 

[Deacon Blues]

I've been involved with WW for almost three years and when it comes to communications it has ranged from very good to nothing.
It's been a bumpy ride, but I hung in there and eventually turned my two founder Helios orders into a UC Pro (that had some serious shifting problems) and a Hydra, which has been an absolute jewel.
When other founders complained (rightly so) on this forum about not receiving their refunds I decided to use the funds that I had sent to Pushkar to purchase the UC Pro and Hydra.
Honestly, at the time I was concerned that if I didn't get the bikes I would end up with a $11,000 US loss if WW went broke.
After all of the founders that were owed refunds received their moneys I thought this problem with refunds was behind WW, but it appears that is not the case.

 

[Masejoer]

After all of the founders that were owed refunds received their moneys I thought this problem with refunds was behind WW, but it appears that is not the case.

Nope, still a helios founder here, without a penny of a refund. I already have a different ebike, so no longer need the forever-delayed helios (which now resembles nothing like the original bike we ordered).

I expected my full refund when the last checks cleaned on the part returns. The only response I received back over the last 6 months was one text when I asked if the cell number was Pushkar, then after I received a response with a yes, I immediately asked about my refund status via that same phone number. I just wanted to make sure that Pushkar himself was in the know of the situation, that all messages, emails, calls weren't getting ignored by someone else who is filtering information. I received nothing back, and they failed to respond to the certified letters. We'll see what their excuse is when they receive legal notice from a third party.