Vado SL or a more powerful bike?

D

DanInStPete

Well-Known Member
I'm ready to buy a new street bike and it's down to the Vado SL 4.0 ($3,750) or the Bulls Urban Evo 10 Diamond ($4,000). I am having a really hard time with the decision. I can't test ride either bike before buying, but this is my 6th eBike purchase and I've never been able to ride any of them first.

The SL would cost around $430 more considering I have to add the range extender and suspension seat post (I have one to fit the 31.8 diameter on the Bulls). And almost $900 if I buy two range extenders which I probably would do. I would add a ShockStop stem to either.

I really like the idea of the light weight SL. I carry my bikes on the car a lot and it would just be easier to deal with, especially along side a new, lighter, single hitch rack. My Thule XT-2 is a beast, but necessary for my Haibike FullSeven and GFs Liv Tempt E+ 3. At the same time, $4K for a high quality Performance Line Speed bike with a 625 Wh battery is hard to pass up.

Vado SL advantages:
- weight
- service (this doesn't concern me too much as I can do most things, but I've never had a motor problem)
- mission control
- I prefer SRAM NX to Deore M6000
- quieter?

Urban Evo 10 advantages:
- cheaper in the end
- power (I'm 6'4" and 235 lbs)
- range
- wider tires
- more comfortable?

The weight difference between the bikes is around 14 lbs. with the range extender installed.

Any thoughts are appreciated.
 
Dan:
As you already own a Vado 5.0, buying the Bulls won't bring any new riding experience to you. You'd only get (a little obsolete now) Bosch Gen 4 system. And you would shudder to see the Purion display that is so primitive (compared to the TCD-w) that it feels like an abomination :)

With Vado SL, your experience would be totally different. An e-bike so lightweight you could carry it in one hand. The riding experience is Vado SL is "just-a-bike". However, nothing comes free in this best of the worlds. Vado SL Assist and Motor Power are half of the "heavy" Vado. Meaning, you would certainly be riding slower but at twice as much contribution from your side, which is good if you go for fitness. For instance, the 100/100% SL Turbo is (approximately) 50/50% full-power Sport of the big Vado.

Vado SL is very economical on the battery (because it delivers less motor power). For instance, the main battery + 1 Range Extender gave me practical range of more than 116 km (72 mi) for 55/55% Vado SL assistance. My healthy brother rode for 50+ miles on a Range Extender only at 45/45% assistance/max motor power.

However, my need for somewhat higher speed combined with my bad legs often force me to ride in 70/70% assistance. In such a case, having two range extenders is a good idea. (Note: You cannot charge two Range Extenders at the same time, and they do charge rather slowly; you can charge the main battery + a Range Extender at the same time though).

My experience:
As I ride my Vado SL at least five times a week, I got used to the low power of that e-bike. Now, getting on my big Vado makes me ashamed: I feel as if I were riding a lightweight motorcycle! I'm "cheating"! :)

Downsides:
Vado SL 4.0 is a stiff e-bike. I could have bought the SL 5.0 (with the FutureShock stem and carbon fork) but the price gap was too big. The thing I had to do was replacing the original stem with the Redshift ShockStop, and relocating the headlight to a GoPro mount. Now: Vado SL 4.0 EQ also allows installing Redshift ShockStop seat-post. You cannot do the latter on the SL 4.0 non-EQ (the only option is to order a 27.2 mm Kinekt 2.1 with a hole drilled per order by Cirrus Cycles, and relocating the taillight wiring).
 
Great information Stefan, much appreciated. I actually sold the Vado 5 more than a year ago.

You are right about the Purion, I already have it on my FullSeven and don't really want it on my new bike. It works great for the mountain bike, big display and everything I need. All things considered if I bought the Urban Evo it would pretty much be a direct replacement of the Vado, and I do want a different experience.

I think your info, in both threads, along with all the other discussion I have been reading has swayed me to the SL. I really want to try the convenience and agility of the lower weight. My main concern was whether the SL has enough power for me. I think it will. I rarely used half the power of the Vado 5. And if I want more power for a particular ride I can just take the FullSeven. I have 27.5 2.8" Smart Sams on it and they do okay on the street with that consistent center line.

I will def add the ShockStop. I had one before on a gravel bike and it worked great. Better than the Future Shock I had on my Sirrus X, the unpowered predecessor to the Vado SL. I like the Thudbuster ST and will be adding that as well (I have an extra 31.8, wish that tube was a little bigger!).

Heading to the bike shop today to order it. XL is in stock in Smoke color so I should have it in less than a week :D
 
DanInStPete said:
I will def add the ShockStop. I had one before on a gravel bike and it worked great. Better than the Future Shock I had on my Sirrus X, the unpowered predecessor to the Vado SL. I like the Thudbuster ST and will be adding that as well (I have an extra 31.8, wish that tube was a little bigger!).

Heading to the bike shop today to order it. XL is in stock in Smoke color so I should have it in less than a week :D
Click to expand...
Dan: Just bear in mind the non-EQ is not easy as to install a suspension seat-post because of the wire routing for the tail-light.

I was on a ride with two very slow traditional cyclists. Despite of my legs' ailment, I rode with them either unassisted or with symbolic assistance of 20/20% SL... :)
 
Stefan Mikes said:
Dan: Just bear in mind the non-EQ is not easy as to install a suspension seat-post because of the wire routing for the tail-light.

I was on a ride with two very slow traditional cyclists. Despite of my legs' ailment, I rode with them either unassisted or with symbolic assistance of 20/20% SL... :)
Click to expand...
Unassisted!
I hadn’t thought of that, when I ride with my analog only friend. He’s a slow rider except when he want to prove he faster on his analog bike than I am on my ebike. (He is.) Instead, I’ve learned how to ride slowly in a low gear at 75 RPM. No assistance seems like a much better plan.
 
BEC111 said:
Unassisted!
I hadn’t thought of that, when I ride with my analog only friend. He’s a slow rider except when he want to prove he faster on his analog bike than I am on my ebike. (He is.) Instead, I’ve learned how to ride slowly in a low gear at 75 RPM. No assistance seems like a much better plan.
Click to expand...

i rode my creo for quite a long time before realizing you can just turn the assist off completely without turning the bike off 😅

now i ride it that way very often, knowing the assist is a button push away if needed!
 
Stefan Mikes said:
Dan: Just bear in mind the non-EQ is not easy as to install a suspension seat-post because of the wire routing for the tail-light.

I was on a ride with two very slow traditional cyclists. Despite of my legs' ailment, I rode with them either unassisted or with symbolic assistance of 20/20% SL... :)
Click to expand...
Thanks for the tip Stefan. Since I almost never ride at night I will remove the tail light and replace the saddle along with the suspension post. I have a rechargeable light for the back if I need it.
 
Stefan has already mentioned the most important points. I'll try to sum up in short (usually not my strength...):
- Lightweight edrives like SL or Fazua are a different world than usual big&heavy edrives. Therefore a price comparison down to a few hundred dollars is useless, you need to like the light but "weak" ebike at the end. Compared to a similar Fazua bike Vado SL price is quite normal.
- Vado SL 4.0 is a very stiff/uncomfortable bike, suspension seat post and stem (or futureshock) are very useful
- SL motors are quite loud for the tiny size&look. Most Bosch motors I tried over the last years were quieter.

Now my usual "extended speech": ;-)
I doubt the need for range extenders, that so many here feel. I know quite some Vado+Creo SL riders in Germany, none of them has a range extender. I'm about the same weight as you and I can easily do a hundred miles just with the main battery. This may also be due to the fact that we have the 25km/h motor limit here, so we use less motor. But comparing the Wh battery sizes of so different ebikes und edrives is pointless. Due to the lighter bike and less motor power you need less battery. I've a very powerful Swiss Stromer eBike with three times the size auf the SL main battery and it's usually empty after 30 miles. I've never had an ebike with more range than my SL bikes, even with 320Wh only. I've also never had an ebike with a slower average speed. There's no free lunch.. But most importantly, I've never had an ebike with so much fun to ride/so similar to a normal bike even without motor. What gives you almost unlimited range compared to normal heavy ebikes which ride terribly without motor.
If you need more than just an "emergency help" and want to ride most of the time with high motor support or if time speed is your main goal (e.g. to commute to work each day afap), SL is the wrong way to go.

I think you will feel it after trying both bikes, if SL is “your way” or not...
 
Fortunately, I owned/own both a Vado SL and the full powered Vado 4. The only advantage in my book for the SL is that it is light. In just ECO mode, I could get 70 miles of riding out of it. It felt great, until big hills showed up. I sold that bike, and purchased the heavier Vado 4, but it is so much more enjoyable to ride. Comfortable, powerful, and fast....when riding at speed, you don't notice the weight. If I had a choice, I would choose the full powered Vado. I can get 85 to 90 miles in ECO only mode on a full charge. Hope that helps....
 
So I bought the SL shortly after I started this thread. I have almost 1,000 miles on it now and am very happy I went that direction. I'm a Clydesdale (6'4", 225 lbs. right now) and I live in FL with no hills. I have Eco set to 40/50 and ride in that probably 90% of the time. That gives me 17-18 MPH and a heart rate in the 125-135 range, both exactly what I want. I can get 50 miles that way.

I do have the range extender and, though I don't need it for my longest ride which is 40 miles, it can come in handy. I recently got 30 miles into that ride and when I stopped for a lunch break I was dizzy and feeling sick, probably a bit dehydrated and didn't eat enough. 20 minutes later I still felt bad, so I went to Turbo and had nice, easy 20MPH cruise to the car for the last 10 miles. I couldn't have done that without the range extender. It is also helpful for outrunning Florida lightning storms.

As for comfort, the ShokStop seat post, Ergon SMC saddle, ShockStop stem, and 47mm Pirelli Centurato tires put me in a very comfortable place.

If I lived anywhere with significant hills (which I REALLY miss) I would have chosen differently, but the SL works perfectly for my purposes. And if I want power, I have the derestricted Haibike FullSeven with plenty of it ;)
 
Last edited:
You could use your RE as the principal battery ("Discharge the RE first") to save the main battery against too many recharge cycles.
 
Sorry, I didn't realize that the thread is that old and someone reanimated it this week.
But so we pushed the TO for a feedback... ;-)

Sefutau2020 said:
Fortunately, I owned/own both a Vado SL and the full powered Vado 4. The only advantage in my book for the SL is that it is light. In just ECO mode, I could get 70 miles of riding out of it. It felt great, until big hills showed up. I sold that bike, and purchased the heavier Vado 4, but it is so much more enjoyable to ride. Comfortable, powerful, and fast....when riding at speed, you don't notice the weight. If I had a choice, I would choose the full powered Vado. I can get 85 to 90 miles in ECO only mode on a full charge.
Click to expand...
There is no general "right" or "wrong" in the choice between anormal or a light ebike. If high speed speed/less travel time or high support is the main need, a heavier more powerful ebike is better. If handling and "sportive usage" and riding often with less or without support, a light ebike is better. And they are also very good uphill climbers, with only 25% SL support, I'm faster than almost everyone without motor 20kg lighter and 20 years younger&fitter than me. With 100% SL support I would win every professional race up to the Tour de France. Of course the usual heavier Bosch or Brose drive offers even more power. The bad thing is, that we get used to it and think we need so much support and can’t climb the smallest hill with less or without motor support. Even the SL drive spoils you here, but less.
 
Eagle1 said:
I test rode a Vado 5.0 IGH today, I do not like the auto shift feature, I decided not to buy it.
Click to expand...
jodi2 said:
Sorry, I didn't realize that the thread is that old and someone reanimated it this week.
But so we pushed the TO for a feedback... ;-)


There is no general "right" or "wrong" in the choice between anormal or a light ebike. If high speed speed/less travel time or high support is the main need, a heavier more powerful ebike is better. If handling and "sportive usage" and riding often with less or without support, a light ebike is better. And they are also very good uphill climbers, with only 25% SL support, I'm faster than almost everyone without motor 20kg lighter and 20 years younger&fitter than me. With 100% SL support I would win every professional race up to the Tour de France. Of course the usual heavier Bosch or Brose drive offers even more power. The bad thing is, that we get used to it and think we need so much support and can’t climb the smallest hill with less or without motor support. Even the SL drive spoils you here, but less.
Click to expand...
I bought a Trek Allant 9.9s a year ago and added a 500 watt extended battery, so I have a total of 1125 watts. I am also faster than almost everyone that is riding a non-ebike. Hard-core road bikers that have a pace of 21-22, I can pass and maintain the lead on them. I had a lot of trouble with the stock freehub until my LBS installed a "Industry Nine" freehub and so far that has cured my problem, the old stock freehub would get real noisy and was very annoying to me and anyone that was around me. Overall I like the Trek Allant 9.9s. I do not like dealing with chains and cassettes, high maintenance items. I have been looking at belt driven bikes, have not found one I am willing to buy just yet. I can not get used to automatic shifting, otherwise I would have bought the Specialized Vado 5.0 IGH. I also have a Cervelo S5 road bike, non-ebike, great bike but I am at a stage of life I like a little assistance from an e-bike.
 
jodi2 said:
Sorry, I didn't realize that the thread is that old and someone reanimated it this week.
But so we pushed the TO for a feedback... ;-)


There is no general "right" or "wrong" in the choice between anormal or a light ebike. If high speed speed/less travel time or high support is the main need, a heavier more powerful ebike is better. If handling and "sportive usage" and riding often with less or without support, a light ebike is better. And they are also very good uphill climbers, with only 25% SL support, I'm faster than almost everyone without motor 20kg lighter and 20 years younger&fitter than me. With 100% SL support I would win every professional race up to the Tour de France. Of course the usual heavier Bosch or Brose drive offers even more power. The bad thing is, that we get used to it and think we need so much support and can’t climb the smallest hill with less or without motor support. Even the SL drive spoils you here, but less.
Click to expand...
I’m actually glad this thread was reactivated. my thinking on the subject have evolved since the OP.

When I bought my Vado SL4 EQ my goal was for a light weight class 3 bike for which the SL was and remains perfect. As I’ve gotten older and more experienced with ebikes by being part of an ebike lovers group out of DC I can better appreciate the advantages of a more powerful system.

I did a couple of quick test rides on the heavier hub powered bikes at last week’s WABA sponsored ebike demo day. While I could now see some of the advantages of these designs, my preference remained for the more natural feel of my mid-drive Vado SL. And the weight advantage remains and is determinative for my choices.

The only significant thing I would change on the Vado SL would be a slightly higher power motor. A boost to 50nm on the motor would be excellent. The just announced Trek Domaine + SLR shows such a motor in the same weight range is possible. Just a bit more juice…
 
I really agree with you on the little bump up in the motor torque. I love my Creo, but if Spesh could pull another 10 or 15 NM out of it, I would gladly pay whatever they asked rather than go looking for something else.

Didn’t Trek do a firmware update last year on one or more of theirs that added that sort of increase to their motor?

One can only dream, especially when coming around a curve and seeing a BIG hill right there in front of you!
 
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