Trying to Decide- MID Drive, Electric Full Suspension Bafang 28mph or Shimano STEPS?

[ncbikeoutfitters]

I've bought bikes online before so assembly is no issue for me. At least on the mechanical parts LOL
Actually ordered a few years ago from bikesdirect.com as they had the best price/spec I could find. So not worried about the shop.

( EDIT - these are MID DRIVE systems )
They just sent me an email with some hard to resist deals on electric full suspension bikes, only catch is they aer on preorder.
I am stuck between two 29er full suspension ebikes- one has Bafang M600 28mph system and is $2999. The other has Shimano STEPS and is $2499.
Both are pretty comparable in terms of mechanical parts- both 1X12, both hydraulic disc brakes, Rockshox air forks, rear suspension. Even tubeless compatible wheels.
So pretty much trying to decide between the two systems.
Appreciate any pros/cons discussion between them. Thanks
here is the link

 

[Stefan Mikes]

The other has Shimano STEPS and is $2499.

Please name the brand and the model.

 

[ncbikeoutfitters]

Thanks- these are both Motobecane 29ers.
Shimano one is called HAL e29, the Bafang one is HAL eBoost M600 I think?
Specs are listed through that link. https://www.bikesdirect.com/product...ikes-hal-e29-electric-mountain-bikes-29er.htm
Shimano is more of a known quantity to me. Bafang is more of a question as far as reliability, support etc

bafang m600 model

Save Up to 60% Off eBikes LTD QTYS of these eBoost Mountain bikes 2024 Motobecane HAL eBoost M600 with SRAM / E8000 Electric MidDrive 29er Full Suspension Mountain eBikes SRAM Hydraulic Disc Brakes Rockshox LockOut 140mm Forks | Save up to 60% off l

appreciate any insights, pros, cons, experience with these motor systems

 

[m@Robertson]

I know of people in the cargo bike world with manufactured ebikes (Larry vs Harry Bullitt) whose earlier electric bikes have a Shimano motor that Shimano has recently ended support for. These are people who use the bikes in all weather for many daily miles, so they have worn out motors and are relegated to trying to buy a NOS (New Old Stock) motor on Ebay or a LBS Shimano dealer that has one. Going rate for the motor is reportedly about $1000. Newer Shimano motors cannot be substituted because (of course) Shimano chose different bolt patterns for its follow-on motors.

My point here is Shimano has already set a very ugly precedent. Bafang is a little better in this regard as it seems the M600 is only a few years into its product life, and they have a track record of continuing to manufacture motors for many years.

Regardless I am not a fan of bikes that use proprietary motors. I want to be the one who says my bike is ready for the scrap heap. However, if I had to choose the option that I think has the most chance of longevity (or spare motor availability down the road) I would choose the Bafang.

 

[PedalUma]

@m@Robertson knows what he is talking about. I have had only one experience with bikesdirect. For me that was enough. Like going to a bad restaurant once. The spec sheet looked great and so did the price. When I opened the box the bike had flaking off matte black paint with taxi yellow primer under it. The dropouts didn't fit the wheels. Everything was counterfeit. The rims were heavy like iron train wheels and I could cut the ammonia/vinyl smelling tires with my thumbnail. That was a garbage 29er. I filed the dropouts and gave it away to a disabled guy to fixup and install an HD. He still rides that bike. It has zipties like a dog has fleas.

 

[Stefan Mikes]

Thanks- these are both Motobecane 29ers.
Shimano one is called HAL e29, the Bafang one is HAL eBoost M600 I think?
Specs are listed through that link. https://www.bikesdirect.com/product...ikes-hal-e29-electric-mountain-bikes-29er.htm
Shimano is more of a known quantity to me. Bafang is more of a question as far as reliability, support etc

bafang m600 model

Save Up to 60% Off eBikes LTD QTYS of these eBoost Mountain bikes 2024 Motobecane HAL eBoost M600 with SRAM / E8000 Electric MidDrive 29er Full Suspension Mountain eBikes SRAM Hydraulic Disc Brakes Rockshox LockOut 140mm Forks | Save up to 60% off l

appreciate any insights, pros, cons, experience with these motor systems

Shimano motors are the name in e-MTB. No big brand uses Bafang in serious e-MTBs.
Motobecane is a good brand but no expert in mountain biking. They are trying to please everyone. Just saying.

 

[Mike TowpathTraveler]

Shimano motors are the name in e-MTB. No big brand uses Bafang in serious e-MTBs.
Motobecane is a good brand but no expert in mountain biking. They are trying to please everyone. Just saying.

I have a Motobecane Grand Touring that I bought new in 1982. Beautiful French touring bike. The Motobecane of 2022 is not the Motobecane of 1982. All it is anymore, is a china engineered and built bike with a slap-on Motobecane badge at the steerer tube.

Most everything I've read of the Shimano motors, especially the EP8's and the like tell me to steer clear. Far, far too many motor failures with very little mileage on the motors. And steer clear means not only Bikes Direct. It means Husqvarna, Santa Cruz, Pivot and every other "name" brand that went with Shimano versus going with Yamaha, Bosch or even Brose. But that's just my opinion based on what I've read on forums like the MTBR ebikes forum. Your own mileage and motor reliability may vary.

 

[PedalUma]

As a teen I has a beautiful French made Motobecane touring bike. It was pearl white. I loved that bike. That was 1983. @Mike TowpathTraveler is exactly correct. The ones in N. America are shipped out of Texas. They are garbage that could be made in some Mongolian prison. That frame looked like a copy of a copy of a copy. Even though some parts had a brand sticker it is not the real deal. Knock off. I would rather get non-branded Microshift than counterfeit trash. The cables were rough, only the very cheapest stuff. It did look a lot like a bike in the online only photo.

 

[Elkman]

I've bought bikes online before so assembly is no issue for me. At least on the mechanical parts LOL
Actually ordered a few years ago from bikesdirect.com as they had the best price/spec I could find. So not worried about the shop.

( EDIT - these are MID DRIVE systems )
They just sent me an email with some hard to resist deals on electric full suspension bikes, only catch is they aer on preorder.
I am stuck between two 29er full suspension ebikes- one has Bafang M600 28mph system and is $2999. The other has Shimano STEPS and is $2499.
Both are pretty comparable in terms of mechanical parts- both 1X12, both hydraulic disc brakes, Rockshox air forks, rear suspension. Even tubeless compatible wheels.
So pretty much trying to decide between the two systems.
Appreciate any pros/cons discussion between them. Thanks
here is the link

It comes down to which is going to be easier to ride. I bought two Class II bikes that weighed 70 lbs and replaced them with Class III bikes that weigh 27 lbs. With the Class III motor I get motor assist at speeds up to 18 mph and a gradual reduction at higher speeds. It is like riding a standard bike and having a tailwind. I am providing 60-80% of the power to move the bike. I went from something more like a scooter to something like a real bicycle.

With regard to mid-drive bikes you will find that dealing with a rear flat tire is much easier and can be done with regular bike tools.

 

[PedalUma]

A new motor has come out with extra-strong bearings and a dual clutch with a torque sensor. I have two 750W 52V in box. One will go on a bathtub bike that lives in San Francisco. Four kids can sit in the front tub at a time with all their bath toys while dad pedals. Or ditch the kids and fill the tub with ice and beer incase you get thirsty on a long ride.

 

[AHicks]

I do my own work, so proprietary parts are a deal breaker here. I can buy parts for a Bafang......

 

[ncbikeoutfitters]

@m@Robertson knows what he is talking about. I have had only one experience with bikesdirect. For me that was enough. Like going to a bad restaurant once. The spec sheet looked great and so did the price. When I opened the box the bike had flaking off matte black paint with taxi yellow primer under it. The dropouts didn't fit the wheels. Everything was counterfeit. The rims were heavy like iron train wheels and I could cut the ammonia/vinyl smelling tires with my thumbnail. That was a garbage 29er. I filed the dropouts and gave it away to a disabled guy to fixup and install an HD. He still rides that bike. It has zipties like a dog has fleas.

I am trying to decide if you were ignorant or flat our lying.
The question is why?
As I said, I've bought several bikes online, from bikesdirect and several friends have too - all very happy, any issues were small and quickly resolved via emails. They have reviews on bicycling mag, mountain bike action, mtbr etc
So I know they don't have "counterfeit parts"
I was asking here about ebikes because I have not seen any reviews on these two bikes and I thought there were honest folks here but evidently you are not one of them. If you are, please post your order number, make, model and size you purchased from them. You should probably remove your replies as they seem designed to libel a decent company.

 

[ncbikeoutfitters]

I do my own work, so proprietary parts are a deal breaker here. I can buy parts for a Bafang......

I see parts available for Shimano STEPS bikes. Bike shops near me says they can order whatever I might need.

 

[ncbikeoutfitters]

It comes down to which is going to be easier to ride. I bought two Class II bikes that weighed 70 lbs and replaced them with Class III bikes that weigh 27 lbs. With the Class III motor I get motor assist at speeds up to 18 mph and a gradual reduction at higher speeds. It is like riding a standard bike and having a tailwind. I am providing 60-80% of the power to move the bike. I went from something more like a scooter to something like a real bicycle.

With regard to mid-drive bikes you will find that dealing with a rear flat tire is much easier and can be done with regular bike tools.

That is good to think about. I prefer to use regular bike tools.
Unfortunately, I don't think anyone has a 27lb full suspension electric bike LOL but I get your point. I found some people talking about the Hal eBoost Pro - they seem to love that one and it weighs 47lbs or so. So pretty dang light comparatively.

 

[ncbikeoutfitters]

As a teen I has a beautiful French made Motobecane touring bike. It was pearl white. I loved that bike. That was 1983. @Mike TowpathTraveler is exactly correct. The ones in N. America are shipped out of Texas. They are garbage that could be made in some Mongolian prison. That frame looked like a copy of a copy of a copy. Even though some parts had a brand sticker it is not the real deal. Knock off. I would rather get non-branded Microshift than counterfeit trash. The cables were rough, only the very cheapest stuff. It did look a lot like a bike in the online only photo.

OMG - I showed your replies to a friend who works at a local shop and he said "LOL - that dude is industry (bike industry)" He's calling you out saying you are so desperate to squash competition you are resorting to crazy hyperbole designed to libel the company.
Pretty serious stuff

 

[AHicks]

I see parts available for Shimano STEPS bikes. Bike shops near me says they can order whatever I might need.

My point was more along the lines of YOUR ability to order. Forced to buy through a shop is a near guarantee you'll be paying top dollar for anything. Kinda like going back to the dealer you bought your car from for an oil change, knowing full well you can get the same service from a good quick change for 30% of what the dealer will charge....

Further, one should not request opinions if one is not going to like the answers.....

 

[AHicks]

OMG - I showed your replies to a friend who works at a local shop and he said "LOL - that dude is industry (bike industry)" He's calling you out saying you are so desperate to squash competition you are resorting to crazy hyperbole designed to libel the company.
Pretty serious stuff

It would seem to me one of our regulars (well known for his super clean custom one offs) has offended a fan boy.

 

[LimboJim]

I know of people in the cargo bike world with manufactured ebikes (Larry vs Harry Bullit) whose earlier electric bikes have a Shimano motor that Shimano has recently ended support for.

I had issues with my Shimano e8000 motor 2k miles in so I can't defend their reliability, but regarding their long term serviceability, I have to ask which model motor you're referring to. e5000? e6000/6100? e7000? I know they're still making their first motor, the e8000, because Commencal recently supplied me with one.

My understanding is that Shimano still makes all the motors they've ever used - they just don't avail internal parts (like torque sensors, which is what failed on mine). And there can be a long wait for replacement - I had to wait a few months.

FWIW, I've ridden an M600-equipped eMTB, and in my experience there's no comparison to the smooth, sophisticated and natural feel of STePS.

 

[AHicks]

Just a FWIW, ignore if you'd like. Bafang seems to have responded to some of the complaints the early M600 owners had. For starters, it's now quiet. That in itself is a big deal. Second, some early tuning issues have been dealt with, like the throttle. This newest version I just got now (purchased 8/22) has full throttle available from -0-, in any PAS level, though it does take a couple seconds (literally) to spool up fully. Mine does anyway. Torque sensing has also been finessed.

 

[EMGX]

I see parts available for Shimano STEPS bikes. Bike shops near me says they can order whatever I might need.

They both look like great bikes. If you buy one I hope you post up a review, clearly no one active in this forum has one.
Regarding parts availability, post up where you see parts available for Shimano motor internals. Other than peripheral components for the big names like Shimano and Yamaha I haven't seen listings for internal components other than bearing kits. If I understand correctly, LimboJim indicated a bad torque sensor meant he need a new motor. Maybe the bike shops you asked meant they could order parts if you need a new chainring, cranks, display or some other peripheral.
FWIW I agree that details need to accompany negative comments in order to be credible. Bikesdirect sells $160 bikes and multi-thousand $ bikes. I bought a Motobecane Fantom Taiwanese built mountain bike for my son close to 15 years ago. It was, and still is, a great bike at a good price considering what was available back then. Flawless out of the box with good mid range components. I've ridden it more than my son but he still has it. I'd be a more concerned about support for a ebike that is more complex with components more prone to defect or failure but in general I'd buy from bikesdirect again without qualms. Besides PedalUma's negative experience most of the owner reviews of bikesdirect that I've seen have been very positive.