Trying to decide between DIY and Juiced CrossCurrent S

[J Miller]

Key things I'm looking for:

• Capable of higher speeds if needed (e.g. 28mph), cruising speeds would realistically be closer to 23-25mph
• High range. My in-town needs are 10-20mi round trip, but there's lots of places I'd like to try the e-bike for that are 30-50mi round trip, especially as I don't own a car.
• Low maintenance, or maintenance that I can do myself. I'm used to riding my bike and doing my own normal bike maintenance already
• Torque sensor is non-negotiable. I've tried riding a few cadence-only bikes and it was awful.
• Prefer direct drive, but will tolerate geared I think. No interest in mid-drives, too much maintenance and I didn't find much real world evidence of efficiency over modern hubs
• Most of the areas I'm riding are semi-flat, but there's a few routes that are extremely steep, prolonged grades (I live near the mountains, and there's almost no transition between flat plains and thousands of feet of elevation gain).
• Misc: medium sized bikes, I'm more familiar with mountain/cross style

Budget isn't set in stone, but I'd like to keep it between $2K- $3K.

I've done some initial pricing on a DIY approach, and was surprised to find the price ends up being similar to the CCS with the 19Ah battery ($2K), especially since I don't have an existing bike (that I'm willing to convert).

My question: does it make more sense to go the DIY route? I really like the CCS and suspect it's actually cheaper for what I want, but I'm worried about being able to do my own maintenance and replacements on it in the future.

 

[rich c]

Bullet points 1 and 2 contradict each other. 28 mph and faster for 50 miles is going to take a LOT of battery. You'll need about half your budget for battery.

 

[J Miller]

Bullet points 1 and 2 contradict each other. 28 mph and faster for 50 miles is going to take a LOT of battery. You'll need about half your budget for battery.

Understood - I think it would be more reasonable then to focus on 24-25mph, and buy an extra battery if it comes to that? I've edited my original post.

I'm still trying to decide on the CCS or building my own - I'm mainly concerned about maintenance, as the nearest e-bike specific shop is 25mi away from me and I don't own a car. I'm fine doing maintenance myself if it's using off-the-shelf parts, but I'm less confident if I have to rely on a specific manufacturer to supply parts.

 

[Nova Haibike]

I really like the CCS and suspect it's actually cheaper for what I want, but I'm worried about being able to do my own maintenance and replacements on it in the future.

There is nothing on the CCS that makes it unique from a serviceability standpoint. It is regular bicycle with a hub drive added to it. All Juiced has done is make the whole more affordable through mass production and direct-to-consumer sales.

 

[J Miller]

There is nothing on the CCS that makes it unique from a serviceability standpoint. It is regular bicycle with a hub drive added to it. All Juiced has done is make the whole more affordable through mass production and direct-to-consumer sales.

So if I needed to, I could replace the electronic parts with off the shelf components?

 

[Nova Haibike]

I can't say for certain; I do not own one. But the CCS uses a common Bafang hub motor, so parts and electronic spares availability should not be a problem.

 

[MisterM]

Honestly, I don't understand how kits are still being sold. Can buy complete ebike-specific models for same/less than trying to slap a kit on a bike that wasn't designed for all the additional weight/speed (mainly substandard brakes). Most kit bikes look like a bad joke - cables and zipties running everywhere, motor and battery look like a nightmare. With so many internet ebikes available, why bother?

 

[harryS]

You're going with a production ebike if you have to have a torque sensor on the pedals. They're not available on DIY kits, except for some expensive kluges.

True, it can be tough to build a kit for less than a production ebike imported from China, but it's easy to beat what they sell in bike shops.

This one has $250 in the motor/controller. Bafang SWXH. I'm using $75 worth of hoverboard batteries in the picture, but I have better ones. My wife rode this up the path from Frisco to Copper Mountain in Colorado.

Another $150 motor. $250 36V 10AH battery custom built in USA. I've taken it to Florida in the back of my car twice this year.

My first build in 2015. Motor/battery less than $500. I've added front disk brakes since then. Still have the crappy bell. This one has a crude cadence sensor, but I'm used to it.

Fatbike motors were not cheap when I put this together. 500W in front and 500W in back. Well over $1600 in this project, and I only rode it twice. Caught pneumonia and my wife read me my rights. It's a summer bike with only rear wheel drive now.

 

[Dewey]

Honestly, I don't understand how kits are still being sold...why bother?

If you're looking at the typical $1,500-2k lower cost ebike there isn't much difference between them, whereas I think the difference is kits enable you to convert a pedal bicycle you already own or select a frame that fits you properly and/or has features you desire for less money than a complete ebike - this is helpful for people with specific special needs e.g. a very low step like a Biria Easy Boarding, or a true heavy duty mid-tail cargo bike like a Work Cycles FR8, or convert a tricycle, etc, but it's also true for daily city commuter stuff: take the Gazelle EasyFlow, a typical 36v Shimano Steps mid-drive commuter step-through with lights operating off the ebike battery. You could buy a Breezer Uptown 8 and convert it with a 36v Bafang or Tongsheng mid-drive kit motor for $1,500 less than the cost of the Gazelle and get a similar feature set with the added advantage of a little more range because of the donor bike's front dynamo hub powered lights.

Also there are certain features of kit motor setups that are useful, for example a Grin Tech hub motor + statorade to deal with heat build up + bottom bracket torque pedal sensor + cycle analyst + battery can provide decent hill climbing, range, and pedal assist, but with the added advantage over a mid-drive of being able to keep moving using the throttle if something happened to your chain/drivetrain.

 

[Dewey]

You're going with a production ebike if you have to have a torque sensor on the pedals. They're not available on DIY kits, except for some expensive kluges.

The TDCM, Sempu, and Thun torque pedal sensors Grin sells for hub motors reportedly provide a better pedal feel over a cadence sensor, but they do require you drill a hole into your bottom bracket shell.

 

[J Miller]

Honestly, I don't understand how kits are still being sold. Can buy complete ebike-specific models for same/less than trying to slap a kit on a bike that wasn't designed for all the additional weight/speed (mainly substandard brakes). Most kit bikes look like a bad joke - cables and zipties running everywhere, motor and battery look like a nightmare. With so many internet ebikes available, why bother?

The more enthusiast kits (especially Grin's) I was looking at seemed pretty solid to me, but those kits used higher end components and ended up being about the same price or higher than turn-key offerings. I'm still drawn to the idea, because it lets me choose what trade-offs I want, but it's not cheaper and I think I've decided on the CCS since this'll be my first e-bike. Just have to decide on battery config now... I'd prefer the 19Ah@48v, but only the tack red color is left in stock.

You're going with a production ebike if you have to have a torque sensor on the pedals. They're not available on DIY kits, except for some expensive kluges.

I was under the impression that the THUN/SENSU/etc from Grin's were pretty decent for torque sensing - is that not the case?

Also there are certain features of kit motor setups that are useful, for example a Grin Tech hub motor + statorade to deal with heat build up + bottom bracket torque pedal sensor + cycle analyst + battery can provide decent hill climbing, range, and pedal assist, but with the added advantage over a mid-drive of being able to keep moving using the throttle if something happened to your chain/drivetrain.

After demoing my coworker's CCS, I think it will fit my needs best right now, but I still want to do a DIY build eventually for the same reasons you listed here - a direct drive where I get to choose the trade-offs to match what I want. And I was very impressed with the level of detail and information on Grin's page around this stuff.

 

[Chris Hammond]

I have been in your situation for months now. I debated the pro's and con's of built vs. the CCS. For a while I was sure I was going to build. I had done many kit configurations on Grin's motor simulator. I had a bike picked out from BikesDirect online, and had built the kit online; I was going to be ordering motor kit from Grin and a battery from EM3EV. Total cost of bike and build kit would have been ~$1850, and that is without adding fenders, lights, and rear rack for commuting.
Fortunately I was debating all this during the winter and not in a hurry.
Once Juiced upgraded their battery offerings, my decision was made. I actually went "all-in" and ordered the 52V battery option due to the long distance commute that I have (30 miles each way).
I do all my own maintenance as well. Most of the electrical components on the CCS are unique to Juiced. So if you have a failure you are going to need to order from Juiced, or plan on doing a bit of conversion depending on the part you are replacing.
I am not worried about this much. Tora Harris (Juiced founder) has been very forward thinking in his design and development of Juiced bikes. Older bikes were built with new technology in mind and he has deliberately built them to make them not become obsolete in a few years. The biggest issue they seemed to have was a rear spoke failure problem, that seems to be fixed by some design and build changes.

 

[surfstar]

https://www.amegoev.com/buy-electric-bikes/stromer-electric-bicyles.html
Those are CAD prices, and a couple of weeks ago they also offered an additional 10% off, so you could get a Stromer ST1 Platinum for $2350.
I bought mine from Crazy Lenny's, though, for $1875 (oh, and it had the longer range blue battery included for free!). 2016 ST1 w/ City kit. Give them a call and see if there are any left. That'll blow away any DIY for quality

 

[J Miller]

I have been in your situation for months now. I debated the pro's and con's of built vs. the CCS. For a while I was sure I was going to build. I had done many kit configurations on Grin's motor simulator. I had a bike picked out from BikesDirect online, and had built the kit online; I was going to be ordering motor kit from Grin and a battery from EM3EV. Total cost of bike and build kit would have been ~$1850, and that is without adding fenders, lights, and rear rack for commuting.
Fortunately I was debating all this during the winter and not in a hurry.
Once Juiced upgraded their battery offerings, my decision was made. I actually went "all-in" and ordered the 52V battery option due to the long distance commute that I have (30 miles each way).
I do all my own maintenance as well. Most of the electrical components on the CCS are unique to Juiced. So if you have a failure you are going to need to order from Juiced, or plan on doing a bit of conversion depending on the part you are replacing.
I am not worried about this much. Tora Harris (Juiced founder) has been very forward thinking in his design and development of Juiced bikes. Older bikes were built with new technology in mind and he has deliberately built them to make them not become obsolete in a few years. The biggest issue they seemed to have was a rear spoke failure problem, that seems to be fixed by some design and build changes.

The black 19Ah model was finally (briefly) in stock earlier today, so I went ahead and pulled the trigger on it! I still plan to do a DIY eventually for fun, but now that will be a hobby project I can take lots of time on, while the CCS should work reliably right out of the box for years.

https://www.amegoev.com/buy-electric-bikes/stromer-electric-bicyles.html
Those are CAD prices, and a couple of weeks ago they also offered an additional 10% off, so you could get a Stromer ST1 Platinum for $2350.
I bought mine from Crazy Lenny's, though, for $1875 (oh, and it had the longer range blue battery included for free!). 2016 ST1 w/ City kit. Give them a call and see if there are any left. That'll blow away any DIY for quality

That's impressively cheap, and I admit I really liked the feel of the Stromer I tried out, but it wasn't quite the right choice for me - I wanted a throttle as backup, I was worried about the 630Wh being enough for me, and I plan to haul more weight than the rack was rated for, and I really wanted to be able to manually set the speed limit easily for legal reasons in a certain part of town I've had some close calls in.

That said, the Stromer had the best feeling assist of any bike I've ridden, including other torque-sensor equipped bikes. I almost bought one then and there after riding it because of that haha. And I like direct drives better than geared... Still, I think I made the right choice with the CCS.

 

[surfstar]

The CCS was high on my contender list, but without being able to test ride one first, I felt safer buying the ST1 at a great deal vs standard price (plus CA sales tax) on the CCS.
Throttle backup was also a priority for me, and I was okay with the 'boost' button/mode that the ST1 has. It works fine, although the CCS system sounds better for more often/longer throttle use.
Enjoy and let us know how it works out for you!

 

[Bruce Arnold]

Bullet points 1 and 2 contradict each other. 28 mph and faster for 50 miles is going to take a LOT of battery. You'll need about half your budget for battery.

This is not accurate, at least not with the Crosscurrent S. I have the old 17.4 Ah battery and regularly get 60 miles on a charge. I can hit 28 in the 2 level of assist, flat ground, no wind, and me+gear=300lbs. Level 2 on the CCS would be level 3 on another bike; with Juiced Bikes it goes Eco-1-2-3-Sport instead of 1-5 (which I'd prefer, for ease of discussion.) With the 19 Ah and 21 Ah batteries now available, you could figure on 10-20 miles extra per charge. Let me say, for clarity clarity's sake, that I don't ride at 28 mph all the time. The greatest obstacles above 20 mph is air resistance. Since I favor longer rides over faster rides, keeping it in the 18-22 mph range is no sacrifice. The CCS with the 52 volt 21 Ah battery is within your stated budget. I am saving for that battery. More power and improved range!

 

[Bruce Arnold]

The black 19Ah model was finally (briefly) in stock earlier today, so I went ahead and pulled the trigger on it! I still plan to do a DIY eventually for fun, but now that will be a hobby project I can take lots of time on, while the CCS should work reliably right out of the box for years.



That's impressively cheap, and I admit I really liked the feel of the Stromer I tried out, but it wasn't quite the right choice for me - I wanted a throttle as backup, I was worried about the 630Wh being enough for me, and I plan to haul more weight than the rack was rated for, and I really wanted to be able to manually set the speed limit easily for legal reasons in a certain part of town I've had some close calls in.

That said, the Stromer had the best feeling assist of any bike I've ridden, including other torque-sensor equipped bikes. I almost bought one then and there after riding it because of that haha. And I like direct drives better than geared... Still, I think I made the right choice with the CCS.

I think you'll be happy with the CCS, and the 19 Ah battery should allow you to meet the speed and distance goals you have in mind.

I was going to say that there is more to this than just the specs on conversion kits. The frames of ebikes are subjected to different forces than regular cycles, so getting something ebike specific is a good idea in the long run. The fact that Tora Harris plans for backwards--and forwards-compatibility is also a big plus. He's a gifted engineer who got excited about ebikes, rather than a cycling guy who got excited about ebikes, and it shows.