Jeremy McCreary
Bought it anyway
- Region
- USA
- City
- Carlsbad, CA
In a pre-Stage 18 interview, Jorgenson just said that he's been "struggling with his health for the last week" but is getting better now.
Tour '25
- Thread starter Rás Cnoic
- Start date
They are coming to the end of the toughest race on the planet. And a particularly gruelling contest this year. Getting sick, dropping out is a habitual risk when riders bodies are abused this way. They are all on the edge by this point.
stompandgo
Well-Known Member
- Region
- USA
Absolutely.
I was having this same conversation with my boss on Wednesday. He asked me why Visma cannot keep up with Jonas, and why they aren't there when he needs them the most. I told him that it can only be one of two reasons. They are either too tired/sick/flat to be able to recover and be helpful day after day, or they have decided not to ride for Jonas. I have seen the latter. I've actually done that myself. If the leader expects things from you and you get nothing in return, riders will not give 100% to the leader. I really don't believe that this is the case with Visma, but I would not be surprised if it was. I guess we will find out in the Vuelta.
I was having this same conversation with my boss on Wednesday. He asked me why Visma cannot keep up with Jonas, and why they aren't there when he needs them the most. I told him that it can only be one of two reasons. They are either too tired/sick/flat to be able to recover and be helpful day after day, or they have decided not to ride for Jonas. I have seen the latter. I've actually done that myself. If the leader expects things from you and you get nothing in return, riders will not give 100% to the leader. I really don't believe that this is the case with Visma, but I would not be surprised if it was. I guess we will find out in the Vuelta.
Jeremy McCreary
Bought it anyway
- Region
- USA
- City
- Carlsbad, CA
Very impressive Stage 19 win for Arensman.
Why did Tadej let it happen?
Why did Tadej let it happen?
Wet ending there. Roglic collapsed, only caught ending so didn't see if it was a crash. Onley fails to gain on Lipo. Shows why I'm not a DS thought he looked pale and worn out at finish yesterday but Onley cracked first. Still 4th is an amazing result. 36th last year on first tour. Can PicnicNL hold on to him?
Healy - another fantastic performance staying with the tiny GC group until 7 or so Km to finish. 8th on the road. Should have locked in his 9th GC result.
Arensman 2 mountain stages. Brilliant. Saves INEOS's blushes too, caught up in old doping allegations with a soignor questioned by police today from the Froome years I think and also in danger of losing sponsors for next year.
Libowitz & Onley for the future. Great rides.
Visma and Jonas. Strangest mountain campaign since start of Pyrenees. Race was over after that first TT. Jonas has got better and matches Pog last few mountains. Maybe they shouldn't have wrapped J in Cotten wool and like Pog he should have done a full Spring campaign. He was off the pace first week. With every Tour so close between them he should have hit ground running and did not.
Healy - another fantastic performance staying with the tiny GC group until 7 or so Km to finish. 8th on the road. Should have locked in his 9th GC result.
Arensman 2 mountain stages. Brilliant. Saves INEOS's blushes too, caught up in old doping allegations with a soignor questioned by police today from the Froome years I think and also in danger of losing sponsors for next year.
Libowitz & Onley for the future. Great rides.
Visma and Jonas. Strangest mountain campaign since start of Pyrenees. Race was over after that first TT. Jonas has got better and matches Pog last few mountains. Maybe they shouldn't have wrapped J in Cotten wool and like Pog he should have done a full Spring campaign. He was off the pace first week. With every Tour so close between them he should have hit ground running and did not.
Knackered. See my post yesterday. Last mountain stage. Race wrapped up. Exhausted. Wet. Didn't feel like it. Which incidentally makes me wonder why Jonas didn't attack and attack and attack to see if he'd finally crack. Even dropping him today although wouldn't make up the time on him, it could have a psychological effect for next year. Truth is they both ruled each other out today and most days. Both knackered now. Punch drunk.
stompandgo
Well-Known Member
- Region
- USA
Great analysis.
Lipo got a second wind when first and second came back to him. I can't think of a better motivator than that. He found the strength when he needed it to keep the white jersey and the podium. Bora can only keep Lipo if Roglic leaves or takes a pay cut. He'll be 36 years old next year. I don't think his ego can handle being a domestique, or he would have been one for Lipo today. As for Onley, I want to see more from him first. I don't know what PicNic has to offer him. The one thing the UCI does right is regulate rider contracts. They have to give 30 days notice before switching teams. Silly season (contract changes) usually starts right after the Tour.
Healy is another one who will need to be paid. EF's budget for the season is less than the UAE budget for the Tour. They don't have any big contracts. They'll either have to find more sponsors or let him go. Ineos would be a good landing spot, as Thomas is done.
You are on the right track regarding Jonas. He could not dig out of the hole he dug from the ITT. His team did not seem like the same team as last year, or even the same team as in the Dauphine this year. Last year, Wout contested what, 8 flat stages? This year, one or two, maybe? Sepp, where were you? Mateo was clearly sick at the worst time, and he was sorely needed. Yates was a good 3rd or 4th man and gave all he had, but you need a lot more than that to beat TP.
On to the Vuelta.
Jeremy McCreary
Bought it anyway
- Region
- USA
- City
- Carlsbad, CA
You guys keep pooh-poohing the infectious disease theory, but it sure fits the fact pattern. Viral syndromes can be pretty sneaky.
stompandgo
Well-Known Member
- Region
- USA
If I came off that way, I apologize. I'm not discounting a Visma viral outbreak. I do expect a team with the resources like Visma to do everything they can to prevent the spread across the team, even if it means no team bus, separate cars, hotels, dedicated soigneurs, rotating mechanics, whatever.
Agree with all that except Healy to Ineos. They are in a state of flux and might not survive or in this form. If they do & carry on as normal with same large budget they'll want a GC winner. Healy with a good team could be top 5 but he'll never be a pure mountain climber. I'd prefer him going to a team that supports him in Spring classics etc as well. But this team is a plaything for billionaire Ineos company (chemicals) owner Jim Radcliffe. He has an Ineos Americas Cup yacht team and as of last year a minority owner of Manchester United where more of his attention and money is going. So future uncertain.
Regarding Visma and your idea of riders not riding for him. I'd say it's outlandish except this team should have landed at the tour in perfect condition with one simple task - stop Pog. The fact they were weak is just so odd. I wonder if cracks began when they let Sepp win the vuelta & Roglic left. Then there was the Danish social media storm when Jonas's wife complained to the press that Wout was getting too much attention in the team and they were not giving Jonas the attention he deserves. Ouch. That story broke I think around that TT.
Whatever the causes it's completely changed my perception of Visma as the super strong team replacing Ineos in that role.
As you say roll on Vuelta. I'm not sure who'll be riding. Be interesting to see.
Jeremy McCreary
Bought it anyway
- Region
- USA
- City
- Carlsbad, CA
Looked it up: The 2025 Vuelta de Espana has 21 stages running from August 23 through September 14.
Just what I need — another 3 weeks of Alzheimers-inducing sleep loss. Will be very interesting indeed.
Just what I need — another 3 weeks of Alzheimers-inducing sleep loss. Will be very interesting indeed.
All three grand tours have 21 stages over 3 weeks. Giro d'italia in May, Pink jersey for GC leader - because the original sponsor in 1909 was Italian newspaper La Gazzetta dello Sport which is printed on pink paper. Likewise TdF was originally sponsored by L'Auto newspaper in 1904 (yeah I guess a car newspaper!) which was printed on yellow paper. La Vuelta (1935) has had a mix of colours. Not totally sure why red now. Hot fiery Espania?!
What's lovely I think is all three are distinctively different from each other, due to culture and landscape. The main difference is all the best riders aim for the Tour but only some do the other two depending on their Tour plans. But if a Spanish rider, winning a Vuelta stage or GC is massive, likewise Italians and the Giro.
Saratoga Dave
Well-Known Member
This has been a terrific thread!
The scenery alone today was out of this world. And the actual information coming out of this thread is far better than anything Caley Fretz and the happy warriors from Escape Collective have had to say. Lance, that’s a whole different discussion.
Much appreciated to you guys.
Oh yeah, and pursuant to my Ride 20 miles or can’t watch the TV coverage, over the past 22 days I’ve only missed two. Rides between 20 and 43 miles, mostly 25 - 30.
The scenery alone today was out of this world. And the actual information coming out of this thread is far better than anything Caley Fretz and the happy warriors from Escape Collective have had to say. Lance, that’s a whole different discussion.
Much appreciated to you guys.
Oh yeah, and pursuant to my Ride 20 miles or can’t watch the TV coverage, over the past 22 days I’ve only missed two. Rides between 20 and 43 miles, mostly 25 - 30.
Last edited:
