Total e-bike ban after a fatality in Key Biscayne, FLA

[fooferdoggie]

another reason to avoid Florida. like we need more reasons

 

[Jeremy McCreary]

For sure. Ebikes are extreme newcomers to the access and advocacy scene, but some of us act like we have an inalienable right to be anywhere we want, riding whatever we want, and any restrictions on those are sinister gubmint overreach. Its very, very different than the attitude I'm used to in traditional cycling advocacy, where people know that every piece of infrastructure built or mile of trail opened represents years (sometimes decades) of effort, and that work could be undone if circumstances shift.

The main thing I'd really like to see is a little more self awareness about these issues from the broader ebike community. Like, even in this thread there were people rushing to blame the victim instead of acknowledge any wrongdoing on the ebike riders part or consider that maybe a regulatory regime that doesn't care if 12 year olds are riding bikes that go that fast may cause problems.

Like, access to the local MUP seems pretty solid at the moment, but there are definitely people who don't want ebikes there, and its not hard to envision a scenario where someone riding a fast bike hits and injures/kills someone completely changing that. And thats not outside the realm of possibility.

Couldn't agree more. We live in a time when many people think that rules don't apply to them, and that respect for others is for chumps. This attitude won't serve ebiking well in the long run. I see it in plenty of roadies, too, but their future isn't as endangered as ours.

Our best bet is to be ambassadors of good will wherever we ride.

 

[Gionnirocket]

I don't think anyone is blaming the victim... But she wasn't wearing a helmet and I'd guess that may have been the difference. It is relevant to this particular story.
Another thing that's concerning about this story is that so far there is absolutely zero details on how it occurred and the injuries sustained.. which raises the concern of an opportunistic overreach veiled by the tragedy.
That said... if I was sherif...
I'd start impounding bikes and issuing fines at the first sign of delinquency to both spoiled snotnose child and more money than brains parents.

 

[6zfshdb]

When the "horseless carriage" first came on the scene in the late 19th century, they were banned in many locations. The vehicle eventually proved too practical, and became almost universally accepted. The big question is, will e-bikes follow suit or go the route of the Dodo?

Ironically, there are still locations in the US where ICE vehicles are banned and EV's, like golf carts, scooters and e-bikes are welcome.

Just nuts.

 

[why?]

Like, even in this thread there were people rushing to blame the victim instead of acknowledge any wrongdoing on the ebike riders part or consider that maybe a regulatory regime that doesn't care if 12 year olds are riding bikes that go that fast may cause problems.

Think we all agree that it's the parents that are at fault. Was the young preteen son even wearing a helmet? What if the kid had been injured or killed instead of the woman (being 66 isn't "old" anymore).

The parents would still find reason to fault the woman even if their preteen son wasn't wearing a helmet. The parents weren't using good judgement buying a Super73 (28mph) for their young son.

 

[Kayakguy]

"Biscayne Bay
Where the Cuban gentlemen sleep all day
I went searching for the song you used to sing to me"

I knew that name was sticking in my mind. Biscayne was also the base Chevy sedan in the late 60's, but you could have had one fitted with the 409, and later the 427, But let's stay mellow with the good doctor.

My parents had a Biscayne, which I remember, though I don't recall whether I ever drove it. My dad said later that it was a piece of crap. But most US built cars in the 60s were crap.

 

[Doggyman1202]

I was struck by this picture posted by J.R. earlier this week outside a Miami-Dade academy. WTF?? In the case of this Key Biscayne tragedy, the Affluenza virus has proved deadly.

The bikes below were likely purchased by parents with more money than brains, as someone else noted.

I'm not running for parent or grandparent of the year, but when I bought an e-bike for a teenage grand kid, I shopped for a model that would be as safe as any analog bike, and also provide healthy exercise (inasmuch as she is already athletic). In other words, my criteria was Class 1 only. I thought that was just common sense, and she's four years older than the boy riding the Super 73. While I'm not in favor of unnecessary regulations, sometimes we need legislation to counter stupidity.

 

[Gionnirocket]

I was struck by this picture posted by J.R. earlier this week outside a Miami-Dade academy. WTF?? In the case of this Key Biscayne tragedy, the Affluenza virus has proved deadly.

The bikes below were likely purchased by parents with more money than brains, as someone else noted.

I'm not running for parent or grandparent of the year, but when I bought an e-bike for a teenage grand kid, I shopped for a model that would be as safe as any analog bike, and also provide healthy exercise (inasmuch as she is already athletic). In other words, my criteria was Class 1 only. I thought that was just common sense, and she's four years older than the boy riding the Super 73. While I'm not in favor of unnecessary regulations, sometimes we need legislation to counter stupidity.

View attachment 171649​

Funny... They look like the Rupp minibike I had as a kid.

As I stated earlier.. the last thing we did was piss people off and attract the attention of the authorities.

 

[Tom@WashDC]

I shared many times how the bans in my county were enacted. Regulating ebikes is a very difficult thing to do and it's getting harder with all the motorbikes being imported by sellers that call the machines ebikes. Banning is seen by many communities as the only option they have, given the wide variety of machines on sale now. We were successful in overturning the bans, but since the pandemic the trails and paths have been flooded with bikes that are illegal. I think more bans are coming.

Thank you for mentioning the victim in this. She was an avid cyclist; on this ride she was cruising in her neighborhood, the 12 year old hit her, according to reports I read.

Some published photos from the story:

View attachment 171595
Victim: Megan, 66

View attachment 171596
e-bikes at Mast Academy, local school.

Over the past 4 days I've seen many news reports on YouTube and most of the bikes shown in town were never pedaled. As has been noted the ban is temporary, and many reports state a permanent ban is unlikely. Stricter regulations are likely. Maybe the EU got it mostly right. Never thought I'd say that.

First thing, let's start calling calling/labeling/classifying those things as "motorcycles", "mini-bikes", "mopeds", or something that distinguishes them from actual "electric bicycles". If they had gasoline motors, they'd be called min-bikes or motorcyles like I used to ride as a kid. Those motorcycles above are configured to be ridden with a throttle under most circumstances. I've never seen anyone actaully pedaling on of those motorcycles. The pedals are nominal only, and not really functional based on the seating and leg configuration. They certaily are not built, nor conducive to, exercising with human power in mind. They have no place on a sidewalk, or pedestrian/bike trail. If I had ridden my gas powered Sears MiniBike on the road, sidewalk, or paved pedestrian trail in the 70's I would have been detained, and my minibike impounded.

If we don't get them off the sidewalks and paved trails, were all going to be painted with the same broad brush and lose our access.

This is exactly what my brother and I had in the 70's, The Puncher. Same as those things above, just louder. The front shocks were shite.

 

[Mr. Coffee]

At this point in time, I think the people arguing for a total e-bike ban have the better argument.

Civil action against irresponsible people (who might be unable to pay damages anyhow) is a poor substitute for preventing a wrongful death.

 

[Gionnirocket]

First thing, let's start calling calling/labeling/classifying those things as "motorcycles", "mini-bikes", "mopeds", or something that distinguishes them from actual "electric bicycles". If they had gasoline motors, they's be called min-bikes or motorcyles like I used to ride as a kid. Those motorcycles above are configured to be ridden with a throttle under most circumstances. I've never seen anyone actaully pedaling on of those motorcycles. The pedals are nominal only, and not really functional based on the seating and leg configuration. They certaily are not built, nor conducive to exercising with human power in mind. They have no place on a sidewalk, or pedestrian/bike trail. If I had ridden my gas powered Sears MiniBike on the road, sidewalk, or paved pedestrian trail in the 70's I would have bee arrested, and my minibike impounded.

If we don't get them off the sidewalks and paved trails, were all going to be painted with the same broad brush and lose our access.

This is exactly what my brother and I had in the 70's, The Puncher. Same as those things above, just louder. The front shocks were s*it.

View attachment 171652

" IMPORTANT "

It's the small details Norton...

 

[teskow]

Couldn't agree more. We live in a time when many people think that rules don't apply to them, and that respect for others is for chumps. This attitude won't serve ebiking well in the long run. I see it in plenty of roadies, too, but their future isn't as endangered as ours.

Our best bet is to be ambassadors of good will wherever we ride.

"We live in a time when many people think that rules don't apply to them"

This is so true as of the last few years. We have polititions in our country who are very good at promoting that attitude. There are a lot who like to follow trends of famous and important people and this is one of them that sucks.

 

[Jeremy McCreary]

This is so true as of the last few years. We have polititions in our country who are very good at promoting that attitude.

Exactly. Role models matter, and the ones we have now in highly visible high places scare the pants off me. Never thought I'd see rule of law teetering on the brink in America.

We live in a time when many people think that rules don't apply to them, and that respect for others is for chumps.

Struck up a conversation with a very thoughtful San Diego County sheriff ~4 months ago. When I shared this personal observation with him, he rolled his eyes and said, "You have no idea. I've never seen anything like it in 25 years on the job."

 

[Gionnirocket]

At this point in time, I think the people arguing for a total e-bike ban have the better argument.

Civil action against irresponsible people (who might be unable to pay damages anyhow) is a poor substitute for preventing a wrongful death.

How's that?
People die everyday from avoidable accidents.
Yet we still have guns, opioids and even cars and go swimming... etc...

 

[Mr. Coffee]

How's that?
People die everyday from avoidable accidents.
Yet we still have guns, opioids and even cars and go swimming... etc...

Yes, and e-bike manufacturers and operators have just as much political clout as gun operators or giant pharmaceutical companies. Right.

I've been saying for years that we have a choice between working for some kind of reasonable regulations on e-bikes that do the most good and the least harm, or we will be facing a total ban. The consensus on this board seems to be that any kind of regulations are too hard and unfair. So likely we are going to see total bans on e-bikes, which have the virtue of simplicity, will be easier to enforce, and will require fewer resources than more complex regulations.

The smart thing would be to works towards, as I said, reasonable regulations that minimize risk to innocent bystanders at the lowest cost. But it is abundantly clear that we won't do the smart thing. If you think that more bans aren't coming you are badly out of touch and ridiculously complacent.

 

[Gionnirocket]

Yes, and e-bike manufacturers and operators have just as much political clout as gun operators or giant pharmaceutical companies. Right.

I've been saying for years that we have a choice between working for some kind of reasonable regulations on e-bikes that do the most good and the least harm, or we will be facing a total ban. The consensus on this board seems to be that any kind of regulations are too hard and unfair. So likely we are going to see total bans on e-bikes, which have the virtue of simplicity, will be easier to enforce, and will require fewer resources than more complex regulations.

The smart thing would be to works towards, as I said, reasonable regulations that minimize risk to innocent bystanders at the lowest cost. But it is abundantly clear that we won't do the smart thing. If you think that more bans aren't coming you are badly out of touch and ridiculously complacent.

Maybe switch to Decaffeinated
It's tomorrow.... and the sun came out.

Is there a compromise over Key Biscayne's E-bike & scooter law?

Proposals intensify in wake of fatal Key Biscayne crash that killed a beloved Key Biscayne tutor.

www.wlrn.org

Village’s temporary ban of e-bikes driven by tragedy, but likelihood of a permanent bans is low

Key Biscayne's decision Friday morning to completely ban electric bikes, motorized scooters and similar devices for at least 60 days is not a precedent. However, according to Islander News research,

www.islandernews.com

 

[why?]

Always thought Class III (25-28mph) was just for adults (18 and up). A 12yr kid shouldn't be allowed to ride an ebike that's faster than his/her pedal power ... 15mph is fast enuf ...

Europe has the right idea with 250w Pedelec power when it comes to teenagers and adults.

Moments: Did you already know?

Look at the differences and similarities of pedelecs, e-bikes and s-pedelecs | Travel safely with Stromer | Drive the difference!

www.stromerbike.com

 

[Gionnirocket]

the best decafe i ever drank was at an arbys in verona va.

This stuff is pretty good.
Whole bean and Swiss Water Process makes all the difference.

I drink the same dark roast high octane for my first cup and mix the decaf/dark roast 60/40 for any subsequent.
Makes a decent latte, espresso and macchiato

 

[why?]

This stuff is pretty good.
Whole bean and Swiss Water Process makes all the difference.


View attachment 171709
I drink the same dark roast high octane for my first cup and mix the decaf/dark roast 60/40 for any subsequent.
Makes a decent latte, espresso and macchiato

Maybe the 66yr old woman had been drinking "dark roast high octane" ... surely not the 12yr young kid.

 

[Gionnirocket]

Maybe the 66yr old woman had been drinking dark roast high octane ... surely not the 12yr young kid.

I repeat... There's been no details on how the accident occurred. Estimated speed of each bike? Circumstances? Was the kid alone or in a pack? Injuries sustained?
What if the kid came around a blind corner not expecting her and was only going 12mph... then panicked crashing into her and knocking her off and into the curb where she hit her head?
Something similar actually happened to me at about that age on my bicycle and I ended up on the hood of a car kissing the windshield. Blind tight corner and I was more concerned about how fast I could go around the block. The driver wanted to kill me as I almost gave him a heart attack. I escaped with a few scrapes, shaken... AND educated. But sometimes life isn't so generous.

Still a tragedy.. but it may have been an accident as the police have deemed it. Or is he and ebikes automatically guilty because of past behavior of others?
I just don't like situations where so little information on what actually happened is provided.
A ban is not the answer.
Set reasonable rules and then make the punishment sting. Impound a few bikes with heavy fines and watch how things get better.

Middle of the road people.