Torque Washers and Torque Arms

[suenord1]

I don't think he was commenting on the veracity of your statement. I think it was more like the clamps with or without slots are more than enough in terms of their raw strength versus any alternative. The issue is not the hose clamp, its the overall design of those clones that allows some slop and motion in the clamp (especially at the hose clamp point on the V1 clone), which in turn lets them fail.

A pair of lets say Grin v3 clamps, secured by three hose clamps, not just one, and you'd be giving that axle and the dropout a lot of support. Especially considering we're only talking a 45-60Nm motor.

Something else to also consider... Again I'm coming from the direction of using two clamps here: there's no law that says they have to be the same type of clamp on each side. You have a disk brake mount on one side and that mount can be used to bolt on a clamp.

I dug into my archives. This one is from early 2017. Its half Grin v2 around the axle, and half of another UK manufactured torque arm (go to Ebay and search for 'bicycle torque arm'. Among the many Chinesium ones there is a company there selling them). What its doing is using a longer bolt on the brake mount instead of the short hop up to the dropout eyelet. Since you have no eyelets, this is a viable option for you (for me it helps to have a lot of spare parts in the garage so I can mix/match this sort of thing). Doing it this way lets me do completely without any sort of hose clamp, and the anchor bolt is a nice beefy M6 bolt. This is an 80 Nm motor tied to a 35a controller on a 52v system. So it is more than capable of ruining a steel fork.
View attachment 142175
this link goes to that UK ebay seller. This is a variation on what I did above where the axle clamp can be given any position, which makes it easier to set up the clamp the way I did above, where the whole thing is bolted in at full-extension already and can't slip to a (catastrophically) more extended length. On the other side I used a Grin v2 and connected to the eyelet.

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This one has a different sort of brake mount arm that can be bolted down with no chance of slippage in two different places.

Torque Arm universal Kit axle 10x12,10х14 mm heavy Dropout Amplifier E-bike Hub | eBay

Need use with powerful motor wheel, gear hub from 1000 w and more.,in set universal arms, 2 universal adapters 14 and 12 mm. Made from hardened steel solid steel, 4-4,2 mm. Torque Arm universal Kit axle 10x12 and 10х14 mm heavy duty Universal Dropout Amplifier for E-bike Hub Motor.

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My replacement fork does not have any disk brake or fender eyelets that I could bolt the v.2 clamp on to, so V.3 is the only type that would work. (I think I wrote the numbers backwards earlier). I fully intend to buy some Grin torque arms. I was unfortunately not looking at a typical clamp when I commented on "worm hose clamp".

 

[tomjasz]

While I continue to whimper and whine over the price, I still have former customers running powerful front hubs, even with aluminum forks, for thousands of miles with Grin V3. My own 1500W peak F DD has several thousand miles of being beat on, hauling a too trailer, groceries, bags of concrete, and anything up to 150lbs of drag on the “tractor”. No sign of wear or failure.

 

[tomjasz]

I don't think he was commenting on the veracity of your statement. I think it was more like the clamps with or without slots are more than enough in terms of their raw strength versus any alternative. The issue is not the hose clamp, its the overall design of those clones that allows some slop and motion in the clamp (especially at the hose clamp point on the V1 clone), which in turn lets them fail.

Eggs Ackley

 

[m@Robertson]

View attachment 142214

I recognize that watermark on that hose clamp pic. I used to buy stuff from there all the time when I was tracking a car and needed all sorts of related parts for it. Pegasus Racing is a good source. But still... a "lined hose clamp" is not lined to increase clamp strength. The liner exists to protect the underlying silicone hose, which isn't a factor here.

If anything, given that you need the thing to bend at a sharp angle likely as not, the second layer of steel will work against you. And since its a v3 with multiple clamps, AND you are doubling the torque arms... crazy overkill that may even work against you.

If you can make them work, great but you aren't creating any benefit. The local Ace Hardware will have more variety and is probably right down the street.

 

[suenord1]

I recognize that watermark on that hose clamp pic. I used to buy stuff from there all the time when I was tracking a car and needed all sorts of related parts for it. Pegasus Racing is a good source. But still... a "lined hose clamp" is not lined to increase clamp strength. The liner exists to protect the underlying silicone hose, which isn't a factor here.

If anything, given that you need the thing to bend at a sharp angle likely as not, the second layer of steel will work against you. And since its a v3 with multiple clamps, AND you are doubling the torque arms... crazy overkill that may even work against you.

If you can make them work, great but you aren't creating any benefit. The local Ace Hardware will have more variety and is probably right down the street.

Thank you for your advice. I will order double V3 torque arms for the two tricycles and the bicycle in my garage. I sort of wish they did have Ace Hardware in Norway, but they don't. I will order Grin arms. I will also have to learn to read the threads a lot more thoroughly if I want to participate in forums. I appreciate your patience!

 

[Rome]

Okay hose clamp is red flag.

 

[tomjasz]

Op don't use hose clamp. Hose clamps are for securing hose. Not Ebike motors.

 

[m@Robertson]

Op don't use hose clamp. Hose clamps are for securing hose. Not Ebike motors.

And the alternative is ... ?

I don't like them either, but reading her posts and looking at her pics of her forks, things look pretty cut and dried.

 

[tomjasz]

Op don't use hose clamp. Hose clamps are for securing hose. Not Ebike motors.

Jeeez Rome, how many bikes have you kitted? Oh, wait... None? Don't be a Stefan!

 

[tomjasz]

No hose clamp here. That's a proper tourqe arm. Post #18

OK, I’ll bite. And when you’re kitting a bike and there’s no eyelet for a bolt?

 

[m@Robertson]

@Rome Yeah you missed the part where there are no eyelets on the fork. Pictures were included there too .

 

[m@Robertson]

Screws are small, but they don't have to be too big for a motor of this size

Yeah for a 45Nm motor I typically use two of the Grin v2's and those are just M5 bolts. I've done the same thing with an 80Nm fat motor over many thousands of miles. In all cases though, they were steel forks. Strictly speaking, doing it down low at the eyelets is a bit of a sin but thats why you use two of them. The two together provide enough of a lock-down to get around things like oopsie we haven't moved the force of the motor upwards into the fork blades and away from the dropouts. That and using steel forks = no problemo.

 

[ChrisOfBristol]

I've used torque washers without torque arms. I've been riding on mountain bike trails and have had no problems. I think torque arms are probably OK with a 250W motor.
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