Thoughts on the Haibike SDURO Trekking 4.0?

[Rakku]

Hi there, Im looking for a ebike for my father since a long time.

Its really hard finding a decent bike here which is compatible with german law and under 2000€.

My father is 67 years old and he likes the torque of my Radrhino (75nm of torque).

The Haibike sduro trekking 4.0 has basicly everything he wants, from looks to specs.

What are your expiriences with haibikes and the mentioned bike in general?
How is the yamaha motor, how do the components hold up, what should be replaced right from the getgo?

My father is 1,78m big, which frame size should he get? (avaible in 48, 52 and 60cm)

Help would be appreciated.

 

[Ebikefevercure]

I had to bounce back and forth between that Haibike and the Voltbike Enduro. I finally ordered the Enduro and currently waiting for order processing. What I saved purchasing the Enduro I will reinvest in better components so, financially it's a lateral comparison. I don't know much about the metric geometry questions bc I'm in the usa. The Rad rover was my 1st ebike a year ago and the Enduro is my 1st mid-drive. I know this doesn't exactly answer your questions but, there's a similar option that I had weighed over this last month. Good day!

 

[BenRussoUSA]

I just bought a 2017 Haibike SDURO Trekking 4.0 online about 2 weeks ago. It arrived in a box at my house yesterday. I put it together last night, let the battery charge overnight. I rode it about 10 miles today. Love the bike so far. It was 99% assembled already... Really just had a few things to do out of the box. Seems to be a great value (I got mine for $1799).

I am just over 6 feet (184cm) tall. I have a 32 inch (81cm) inseam. I bought the "step-through" model in 56cm "XL" (22 inch) frame size. It is a good fit for me, and looks big. I could have gone one size down (to a 52cm "L" ) and it would have fit also, but it would have been a little more upright. I would suggest a 52 if you like the forward leaning position, and a 48 if you like a more upright position. Both should work.

My advice is DO NOT get the 60cm if you are 1,78cm... it will be too big.

 

[BenRussoUSA]

What are your expiriences with haibikes and the mentioned bike in general?
How is the yamaha motor, how do the components hold up, what should be replaced right from the getgo?

I have only had mine one day. Assembled it last night. However, I had been riding a 2012 Trek Soho DLX Carbon Drive ($1,200 5 years ago). I consider this new Haibike and my old Trek bike very similar in terms of engineering and build quality. There is NOTHING that *must* be replaced right away, but I did order a set of mountain bike pedals with nails because I like the grip on the pedals. You might want to add a rear view mirror and some paniers if you are going to commute. You'll want a decent bike lock so it doesn't get stolen. Add a water bottle holder. Don't see anything on the bike that is flimsy or cheap.

 

[Nova Haibike]

I have a 2016 Trekking RC. I am maybe 168 cm in height. I was worried about the size. I got the 48 cm which fits pretty well; 52 cm would have been too large.

The Yamaha motor has plenty of torque for climbing, but I rather doubt it will have the the kick-in-the-pants feeling of your Rad. I don't think anything on the bike needs to be replaced out of the box; it is all good quality that should only have to be replaced when worn out. That said, on my own bike I installed larger pedals straight away, because I sometimes wear rather floppy shoes and wanted more support for my feet. I also replaced the saddle and grips to ones that fit me better.

 

[Rakku]

I had the possibility to check this bike out in a local bike shop, its for my father anyways.

Actually if you start pedaling in high mode and lower gears, that thing can just hold its torque fine to the bafang motor, is way quiter and more consistent.

And the torque sensing is pretty nice.

We already decided to buy it, they had the frame size we needed but that bike wasnt assembled yet.

The bike shop is a huge haibike partner and the guy even knows the haibike representative for the region/country, who lives pretty near to me apparently.

My next bike will be either a haibike Fullseven LT 10 or the AllMtn 9.0 (I like the bosch design with the integrated battery design more)
But I still cant decide between the two, but I have plenty of time till I saved up enough for them.

And he told me, even if haibike doesnt have the bikes I want on demand, that guy can still somehow get me the bike I want, so if I decide to buy one, I know I´ll have access to it in a pretty short time, which is nice to know.

 

[BenRussoUSA]

After just one 10 mile trip on the Trekking 4.0, there is at least one thing that could be improved.
There is no sensor on the brakes that cut's off power to the motor.
I knew that when I bought it, but didn't realize that it is somewhat desirable even on a pedal assist only bike.
The reason is that when you are stopped at an intersection, you may have your crank just over the top, and your leg resting on the pedal.
That leg resting on the pedal is *just enough* torque to cause the motor be fed a little power.
I will get used to it and learn to leave my foot off the pedal at a stop.
But, it would be even more elegant if there was a brake cut-off.

 

[rich c]

After just one 10 mile trip on the Trekking 4.0, there is at least one thing that could be improved.
There is no sensor on the brakes that cut's off power to the motor.
I knew that when I bought it, but didn't realize that it is somewhat desirable even on a pedal assist only bike.
The reason is that when you are stopped at an intersection, you may have your crank just over the top, and your leg resting on the pedal.
That leg resting on the pedal is *just enough* torque to cause the motor be fed a little power.
I will get used to it and learn to leave my foot off the pedal at a stop.
But, it would be even more elegant if there was a brake cut-off.

Surely you had to move the crank. How could the motor activate from resting. That would imply the bike will move when being parked. 2000 miles on my Haibike XDURO and never wished I had a motor cutoff.

 

[BenRussoUSA]

Surely you had to move the crank. How could the motor activate from resting. That would imply the bike will move when being parked. 2000 miles on my Haibike XDURO and never wished I had a motor cutoff.

The brakes fully locked, and if I left the weight of my leg on top of the pedal, it moves a millimeter or two (like chain stretch? or maybe there is a spring inside the gearbox?) anyway, it was detecting when I pressed on the pedal and I could feel the motor pushing.

 

[Nova Haibike]

That is Yamaha's zero-cadence feature you are feeling. It doesn't need cut-off switches for the brakes; that little surge isn't going to hurt anything. Just keep a finger on the brake...no different that keeping a foot on the brake in a car with an automatic transmission.

 

[BenRussoUSA]

Just keep a finger on the brake...no different that keeping a foot on the brake in a car with an automatic transmission.

I wonder how much battery juice it would drain? Maybe not much, but it has to be something.

 

[mobits]

I am just over 6 feet (184cm) tall. I have a 32 inch (81cm) inseam. I bought the "step-through" model in 56cm "XL" (22 inch) frame size. It is a good fit for me, and looks big. I could have gone one size down (to a 52cm "L" ) and it would have fit also, but it would have been a little more upright. I would suggest a 52 if you like the forward leaning position, and a 48 if you like a more upright position. Both should work.

My advice is DO NOT get the 60cm if you are 1,78cm... it will be too big.

Think it would be workable at 188cm and 82-83cm inseam?

General fuel conservation tips for Yamaha PW:

Choose a lower gear and spin faster than 88-90 RPM. You will go much further than if your cadence is 80 or 85 RPMs. I manage up to 35% more range with higher cadence. You have to work a little harder, and ride slightly slower, but not that much.

As for Zero Cadence, keep it off. Come to a full stop at a red light, and avoid abusing of antistall. If you bring your bike close to a stall condition on a hill, Zero cadence will kick in... It drains bucketloads of battery. It’s great for commuting (you almost always make it to the top of the hill), but not so great for touring (you might not make it home).

And I thought the Yamaha's were a bit better for the lower-cadence pedalers. Long story short, disabling Zero Cadence sounds like it will extend the range considerably as well.

 

[Rakku]

Well today we checked out the bike again with a few upgrades and had 2 frames to choose from.

One was the 48cm (although the ladies variant, mid-step) and one the 52cm men version.

My father went with the 52cm version, the ladies one was just too short in overall length and felt worse in handling.

Its nice that the bike shop gave us 10% off of everything, he will install a good framelock + a handlebar riser and we got 10% off of those items as well, pretty neat.

When I get my xduro from the same shop, I guess I´ll save around 540€ on the msrp, which is nice.

Next week they have the bike completly ready and set up (the shop is extremly busy at the moment).

 

[BenRussoUSA]

Think it would be workable at 188cm and 82-83cm inseam?

I have the 56cm (22") step-through. Some people might call it the "ladies" frame. But honestly, the Haibike frames have angles and shapes (hydroformed frames) and unless someone knows Haibike frames pretty well, I don't think that they would even know this was a "step-through" variant.

That said, on the step through at 56cm, I have to have the seat post just about 2" above the lowest it will go.
I am also sure that the reach to the handlebars is as far as I would want.
I have about 3 fingers of clearance under the inseam when standing over the bike. (safe!)
I am positive that the 56cm would work for someone that is 188cm tall, you could raise the seat another inch or two and still have plenty of tube in the frame. You *might* want to get a stem raiser, or a handlebar with a little rise.

I think that a 60cm frame would be gigantic. The problem with getting a big frame is that there is nothing you can do to make it more comfortable if it is too big. On the other hand, if your bike frame is just a tad on the smaller side, you can always raise the seatpost and change the neck, or the bars and make it just the way you want.

 

[Trashfan]

Hi everybody!

I'm thinking the purchase of Sduro 4.0 Trekking, but with the size i'm in trouble. I am 191 cm tall, and 86 cm inseam. I would use it for a longer tours. What you believe, which frame size may be good for me?

Thanx the help!

 

[Ravi Kempaiah]

Hi everybody!

I'm thinking the purchase of Sduro 4.0 Trekking, but with the size i'm in trouble. I am 191 cm tall, and 86 cm inseam. I would use it for a longer tours. What you believe, which frame size may be good for me?

Thanx the help!

Because of the inseam length, I would say 56cm frame.
You could also go with 60cm step-through.

 

[Rakku]

I´d avoid the "low-steps", because the wheelbase is shorter on the low steps and the bike feels completly different.

We tried out a low-step vs a normal step frame and the bike behaved completly different.

My father bought the "normal" one.

 

[Ravi Kempaiah]

I´d avoid the "low-steps", because the wheelbase is shorter on the low steps and the bike feels completly different.

We tried out a low-step vs a normal step frame and the bike behaved completly different.

My father bought the "normal" one.

Shorter wheelbase is linked to sporty ride feel. The goal of every MTB designer is to reduce the wheelbase. That's why many full suspension Haibikes have sprocket equalizer system.

Longer wheelbase is often linked to stability and certain inertia. That's why cargo bikes have long wheelbase.

The step thru frame on the Haibike is not a real low step thru, it's just a more steeper gradient on the top tube.

 

[Rakku]

I do agree with your logic, but somehow the handling that I experienced told me otherwise.

The handling of the shorter bike was horrible, dont ask me why though.
Its not even that much of a difference in wheelbase lenght.

 

[BenRussoUSA]

I've ridden my Haibike SDURO Trekking 4.0 about 200 miles now.
Overall, the bike is doing great, I am happy with it, and think it was a decent value at $1,800.

Range (for me, so far):

• HIGH Assist mode: 20-22 miles with "Full" pedal assist usage, crusing at 15MPH
• MID: 35-40 miles
• ECO: Don't really know because I never ride more than 36 miles at a time, and haven't tried a long ride in Eco mode. I have ridden 4.5 miles in ECO mode, and the battery still read "FULL" (it only goes down in 10% increments) so it wouldn't surprise me if I could get at least 50 miles, maybe 65?

PRO's

• I love the torque sensing Yamaha motor. It works seamlessly. Pedaling up long hills, pulling a 20 lbs. single wheel trailer with my 42lbs son in it, is not hard at all. I can do it at 10MPH in 4th gear.
• The battery life seems great. I am amazed by how far that bike can help me ride with just that small battery. WOW.
  Recharging is FAST, about 4-5 hours from 10% to full.
• Bike has no rattles or creaks (other than 8th gear that I mentioned above, and the cheap plastic headlight mounting bracket <fixed>)
• I have always ridden "no suspension" bikes, so I thought I might not like the front suspension forks. They are a lot better than the ones I had test-ridden years ago. I like the front suspension and now wonder if I shouldn't have splurged for a full suspension bike...
• The somewhat fat tires (compared to the commuter bikes I have always ridden) are nice. I only have to pump them up to about 55psi and they give me a comfortable, grippy and confident ride with zero fear of pinch flats.
• The brakes are GREAT, just be careful you don't go over the front. (you can if you suddenly grab a handful of front brake). I think these brakes have very good feel and modulation though, you can brake right on the edge of grip and flip.
• The integrated headlight and taillight feature are very nice.
• Love the high quality fenders, (but see below they could be longer in the back), I have ridden several miles in the rain and have no brown skunk stripes on my clothes, and my sunglasses aren't splattered.
• The stock saddle works great for me, the one that came with my TREK bike left me in pain.

CON's (this is just everything I can nag about, nothing outweighs my overall satisfaction, but I list it for the benefit of shoppers who might care)

• See the note below about the cheap plastic headlight mounting bracket.
• ZERO assembly instructions came with the bike other than a note to pay a professional to do it. (I didn't really need any instructions, it was easy and was done in under an hour, but would have liked to feel more confident that I didn't miss anything, I spent an extra 20 minutes going over everything that could be torqued with a good torque wrench just to be sure, didn't find anything loose except the motor mounts could have been tightened another quarter turn (the correct torque is labelled on them, so I know I did it properly))
• rear derailleur cable was about 1/4" loose and the twist adjustments were 3/4 of the way out on both the front and back.
• rear brake lever has about 20% play in the range before it bites, It isn't bad and doesn't bother me, but I would expect an $1,800 bike to have hydraulic brakes that were perfectly filled out of the box. I can still skid the rear wheel without pulling the lever very hard or running out of range, so no problem other than just nagging me.
• rear derailleur alignment is hard for me to get right, all the gears work great except for 8th gear, which pops when pedaling hard.
• The pedals were cheap, I installed after market replacements. https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B01ILX7OGA/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o04_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1
• The yamaha control panel dims when the headlights are on, if you want to ride with the lights on in sunlight, you might have a hard time reading the lights on the control panel.
• The stock stem was about 90-100mm of reach which was too far, and the bars were too low, for my comfort. I tried a cheap adjustable rise "tilting" stem, and it is too flexible so I am ordering a better solid (non-adjustable) steering tube riser and a 40mm stem.
• The bike is heavy and doesn't have the stiff feel of the bikes I have had in the past. (as compared to the non electric bikes I have had in the past). I think that this is a combination of 3 things 1. the cheap stem I installed, 2. the front suspension might not be perfect. 3. the mid-motor mount might not be as stiff as a traditional frame design...
• The steering geometry leads to a "quick" feeling (read not stable feeling, twitchy). So in curves you feel a little less comfortable about holding a line. Combine this with the slightly rubbery feel of the heavy bike frame and it isn't a bike that I would love to race through quick S turns.
• The rear chain stays bring the rear axle close to the cranks and the distance from the seat post to the rear rack is about 1.5" shorter than my old bike, so my old pannier bags hit the heels of my feet.
• Fenders should be about 2" longer in the front, there are a few creeks with fjords around my house and my feet get splashed even when the water is only 1" deep. In the back (for trailer behind you) could be 4" longer, but the back is fine if you aren't pulling a passenger.
• The rear rack design is unique (maybe they all are?) but it is hard to find nice panniers.
• I would like to put a small handlebar bag on the front, but I worry about kinking the hydraulic brake lines when turning the handlebars all the way with a bag stuffed between the brake levers

Front headlight mounting point is cheap plastic and the screws that held it in didn't stay secure and when I tried to tighten them it stripped the plastic mounting "tubes" out. I don't care about the "looks" that much, so I found some longer 4mm machine bolts (technically screws since they are threaded all the way down the shaft to the head). I ran a 4mm drill through the mounting bracket at the two mountpoints, and then put the bolts all the way through the plastic mount point and put nuts on the front.
BTW, a great way to do "threadlock" that has never failed me, and is easy to remove later... A small dab of acrylic caulk on the threads of the bolt where they stick out of the nut. While I was at it, I pushed a little dab of caulk into the rubber boots of the blade connectors on the headlight wires so that water wouldn't run down the wires and into the blade connectors.
I think the headlight mounting is as solid as it can be now. As long as the bracket doesn't completely break it should be good for the life of the bike.