Thoughts Of An Experienced E-Biker

[Nomad]

Since it is Winter where I live, I had to accept the fact winter studded tyres have a high rolling resistance. Moreover, I cannot convert to tubeless as I swap tyres for the cold and warm season and the tubeless is too messy for that. I have accepted the fact Winter riding is slow.

I am currently only left with Vado SL (for an undetermined span of time). I actually enjoy riding with less assistance nowadays (as long as I'm riding solo); it makes me feel a traditional cyclist, and I work out more! Only regretting my health disallows me riding traditional bikes... (that would be really slow!)

I don't find it that messy when I switch. Do it on my Stance E2 every winter and then back in the Spring. They say you should change or add fluid after so long anyway. I do think next year I'm going to have dedicated winter and summer rims.

 

[PSm]

@PSm: How do you ride an e-bike on the trainer? Can you pedal the trainer for 4-5 hours?
A big part of my cycling buddies ride the trainer in the winter-time. I am afraid no trainer can simulate a decent gravel group ride? With all the shakes, bumps, fighting with ruts, carrying the bike over obstacles? I understand the trainer is a convenient thing but I am all for the adventure!

Now, with the temperatures slightly above the freezing point I learned wearing lightweight and breathable clothes for my rides. It is such a great pleasure to zoom in the cold environment being so nicely insulated against the elements!

The clothes I wear now for the rides are minimal compared to what I was wearing three, two, or one year ago:

1. Base layer underwear for legs, warm cycling bibs, socks, and either regular 510 shoes or hiking boots (depending on the weather)
2. A top modern (very thin) cycling jersey with detachable sleeves. It serves as the basic layer for the torso, is breathable but does not let the wind in
3. Helly Hansen Men's Crew Midlayer Sailing Jacket. It is a miraculous thing in terms of light weight and protecting the body against the elements
4. A balaclava, snowboarding helmet and matching goggles
5. Very warm winter cycling gloves.

I only wear any warmer clothes than described during the frost. The only weak point is it takes time to put the clothes on before any ride...

Ha, no indoor e-bike riding
Typically, intense half hour to hour and a half indoor rides/races. Able to do before sunrise, after sunset, or squeeze-in between work meetings! That’s the beauty of it, to be able to get good exercise when otherwise I wouldn’t have the time for it. But, anxious for the good weather and weekends, to get outside again!

 

[PSm]

P.s. the other VR cycling app I find interesting is Rouvvy, which is the one that has actual videos taken by users, that you can ride on. The Wahoo RGT app is 3D generated, but is still fun, and best of all has a Free version that still has much capability (ride a few courses anytime, and join rides/races that others have created) even if you don’t have a paid subscription.

p.p.s- hope it’s okay to be so off topic, from the OP. No doubt, ebiking is awesome, and there are so many great options these days. just adding indoor training to the outdoor 4-5000 miles a year

 

[Stefan Mikes]

p.p.s- hope it’s okay to be so off topic, from the OP.

It's OK. Valuable input indeed!

 

[Rome]

Cool if you crash leaning too deep and fast, no road rash and bruised ribs.
End result you get a workout.
I was tailing a threesome of roadies for approximately 2 miles on flat Bikeway they were averaging 25+ mph and one thing I noticed was their butts were off the skinny saddle most times. They put their weight on the pedals. I found this to be very interesting.

 

[AleksR]

A Noob

When I entered the Brave New World of e-bikes in late August 2019, I understood how the e-bike instantly changed my life. An ailing person who could hardly walk, I could suddenly zoom greater and greater distances for exercise, adventures, grocery shopping, and -- the most important of all -- for fun. Even before my ailments developed and manifested their presence, a traditional bike ride was painful for me: Countering headwind or climbing on a bike was no fun; I needed to stop every 5 km for rest. I had no incentive to be on the bike everyday! With the purchase of the first e-bike, I started riding faster, for longer distances, and as frequently as never before!

As a noob with some money, I started buying new e-bikes on the "N+1" principle to end up with 4 very different e-bikes. And, as a noob with some money, I was doing everything to improve what I bought! The number of experiments, new gear, equipment, "improvements" I've done to my e-bikes might fill a decently sized book! And I've been the noob for some three years. Until I changed. After documented 26,000+ km (16,200+ mi) ridden on e-bikes, I think I changed and reached a level of maturity.

Let me describe what I believe in now, and what experiments have brought valuable outcome.

N-1, Or Only Keep The E-Bikes You Actually Ride
If you own several e-bikes, some of them are just gathering the dust. If you choose to ride each of them, the maintenance costs start to mount to an unbearable level. After having determined my real needs, I just reduced the number of my e-bikes from four to just two. I keep a heavy, strong and fast full power e-bike that is priceless for long, demanding trips (especially in the mountains) and a lightweight low power e-bike that I ride on a daily basis, and which has proven to be appropriate for long and fast gravel group rides. Actually, I feel I still own one e-bike too many but it would be hard for me to get rid of either of them!

Use Your E-Bike As Intended By The Maker, Or Do Not Change The Nature Of Your Steed
Disclaimer: I'm only talking of good e-bikes from major bicycle brands.
The big bicycle brand has accumulated decades of experience, and makes e-bikes of a proven geometry and componentry for the intended purpose. "Do not change a bronco into a mule!"

• You have bought a premium commuter e-bike. The bike geometry tells you the e-bike should be ridden in a forward position. What do you do? You think you need to ride in a more upright position; you raise your stem then buy curved handlebars (or Jones H-bars for instance); you are replacing the saddle with the widest and softest saddle you could find. You have changed the very nature of your e-bike. You believe the changes were necessary but surprisingly you still suffer pain in your butt, hand numbness or back aches. So you experiment more and more not to avail really.
• You thought buying a full suspension e-MTB would make your city rides comfortable. Now, you have realised your electric mountain e-bike simply hates city riding! So you swap your off-road tyres for "all-rounders", raise the stem, trim your wide handlebars (ouch!), add a rack and maybe even a kick-stand. You have crippled your mountain-goat to become a cow...
• You thought a road/gravel e-bike was cool. Now, you put a comfortable saddle, a rack/pannier, long fenders, and perhaps a kickstand on your e-bike. Making it even heavier and against its intended purpose.

The issue we all are facing is an universal e-bike does not exist. We are not capable to determine our real needs prior to the purchase, either.

The Stock Components Are Not Necessarily Hopeless
If everyone of us noobs could have just tried riding our first e-bikes without immediately modifying them... I managed to make many unnecessary replacements of stock components on my e-bikes. For instance, it took me almost 3 years to realize the stock Specialized Electrak 2.0 tyres on my Vado 5.0 actually were the best thing, and I should have not replaced them in the first place. Or, it took me more than a year to find out the stock Specialized Bridge Sport saddle on my Vado SL was actually a very good thing that I really didn't need to replace with another seat! To be honest, even the stock grips on my both e-bikes that I keep were quite OK! Why to replace anything just because it is "stock"?

The More I Ride, The More Lightweight I Appreciate
That's why I ride my heavy Vado less and less, giving the preference to Vado SL.

Tyre Inflation Pressure
It is true that increasing tyre pressure makes the e-bike roll easier. On the other hand, the tyres are the ultimate bike suspension, especially for dampening rapid road vibrations. Reducing the tyre inflation to the "sweet point" between the rolling resistance and ride comfort is something I could greatly recommend to anyone!

Extra Suspension, A Worthy Thing?
Oh yes. For most of good e-bikes ridden by the Forum members, a Kinekt 2.1 or RedShift Shock Stop suspension seat-post is certainly a valuable improvement for your rear. On the other hand, installing a suspension stem on an e-bike already equipped in any form of front suspension makes little sense. Any type of the front suspension is made to dampen slow vibration; it is the tyres that flatten the rapid vibration.

Saddle
There is no Saddle Holy Grail. If you have chosen riding in a more upright position, most of your body weight will inevitably rest on your butt. Expect back/spine aches. No comfort saddle can be as soft as an armchair if you need to be pedalling your e-bike. With the riding position more forward, you lighten up your ass. Surprisingly, many aches might have gone. Once you have moved your body position forward, you will notice a seemingly hard and narrow saddle might even become more comfortable, especially if you ride in chamois. A narrower saddle means no chafing on your thighs and axils.

Pedals
Very expensive bikes are delivered without pedals. In most of cases, even expensive e-bikes will be delivered with cheap unimpressive pedals. It is your choice what you do.
I do not want to start yet another holy war with the lovers of "clipless" (who actually clip in). Just want to say good wide platform pedals with traction pins are almost as good as clipless pedals/cleated shoes, and I often ride platform pedals just in sneakers. It is your choice though.

Handlebar grips
As I mentioned before, the stock grips can be in many cases excellent. I'm a great believer in the enhancement called SQlab Innerbarends, which I perceive as one of the greatest inventions for flat handlebars. Innerbarends let me lean forward without hand numbness, be myself more aerodynamic, have perfect access to brake levers and the shifter, and keep my arms closer still retaining a pretty wide handlebars. I spend almost my ride time in the Innerbarends now. Having the Ergon GP2 bar ends available too, I hardly use them now.

Rear-View Mirror, Daytime Lights, And The Helmet
I simply cannot ride without the rear-view mirror. Inexpensive Mirrycle is the type I've used on my all e-bikes. The glass part never broke in any of several Mirrycles I have owned. The secret of the proper Mirrycle set-up is to tighten all screws very strongly. The threaded parts are made of brass there; brass can stand very strong tightening, and you can hear it squeaking when you tighten the screws: it is the proper thing.

Many of EBR Forum members are bitching they cannot switch their daytime lights off. "See and Be Seen". It is for your own safety!

Wearing the helmet goes without saying.

Keep thinking old man. Love your thoughts and passion.

 

[BEC111]

Haha! Rich, I still cannot understand how it come the Specialized Bridge Sport, the stock saddle for Vado SL 4 has turned out to be the most comfortable of my bike seats despite of being narrow, long and hard

I’ve made the same discovery. Took lots of adjusting of bars, grips, seat and so forth

 

[Robspace1]

You are tougher than I am. No outdoor winter riding for me. Now using an indoor spin bike, and virtual reality cycling apps, and enjoying doing virtual group rides or solo rides, all from the comfort of indoors.

Treadmill for me till' Springtime.

 

[Stefan Mikes]

As I have just recovered my reconstructed and upgraded full-power Vado 6.0 from Specialized, I had to go for several rides and "optimize" the e-bike again The major change was dropping the handlebars as low as technically possible with the existing stem for a more forward riding position. The "new" Vado is insanely comfortable now. Still, I dream of installing a really long stem so I could lean on the bars very much. And then I wake up from the dream and think if I really should spoil that meticulously created setup of the e-bike I have just recovered! (It is all down to my modified Vado SL, in which I could really lower and extend the bars forward, which makes me so happy!)

Another thing I got by consistent pedalling my low power Vado SL when the big brother was in the repair (3 months) is now I put more effort into pedalling. I decided to complete the "big" Vado ride of yesterday on a single battery. Half of kilometre before the finish I lost the assistance because the battery got discharged to 5%. I just downshifted and happily pedalled until my ride was complete. Why worry? It is still a bike!

It is possible to get a copy of data from Strava and open the Activities.csv in Excel. The 2022 ride data turned out to be pretty interesting:

The roles of my two e-bikes seem to be clearly defined. The big Vado is not my daily ride. Vado SL is not a real performer for demanding rides. At least for me!

 

[pmcdonald]

Why worry? It is still a bike!

Yes! An easy fact to forget in our preoccupation with all things motorised and electronic. I get surprised (and a little relieved) anew every time I switch the assist off riding with non-motorised friends and family - it's still a pushbike! With some optional assist. I'll always value an ebike that can ride well switched off.

 

[Jason Knight]

With some optional assist. I'll always value an ebike that can ride well switched off.

Which is another thing some of the obtuse effete elitist jerks 'round the web seem to lose their huffing minds. I mean I start playing with the gear ratios to dial in the bike to be useful both motorized and not, and I get some people -- even those who liked your comment -- screaming "It's an e-bike why would you ride it unpowered? What's wrong with you?!?"

When dialing mine in to a 53t front with an 11-36 cart makes the bottom three gears useful unpowered, and the top three gears actually do something when powered instead of the bike racing out ahead of how fast I can pedal.

But how DARE I do that instead of "turning the motor controller down" or "Switch to your regular bike to ride unpowered" as some folks seem to suggest. As if adding a motor magically makes it not a bicycle anymore. Or changing the gearing to fit me is somehow wrong because the "one size fits all" from the factory is magically going to actually be useful.

OMFG, you use your e-bike like a bicycle? The horrors

 

[mschwett]

Which is another thing some of the obtuse effete elitist jerks 'round the web seem to lose their huffing minds. I mean I start playing with the gear ratios to dial in the bike to be useful both motorized and not, and I get some people -- even those who liked your comment -- screaming "It's an e-bike why would you ride it unpowered? What's wrong with you?!?"

When dialing mine in to a 53t front with an 11-36 cart makes the bottom three gears useful unpowered, and the top three gears actually do something when powered instead of the bike racing out ahead of how fast I can pedal.

But how DARE I do that instead of "turning the motor controller down" or "Switch to your regular bike to ride unpowered" as some folks seem to suggest. As if adding a motor magically makes it not a bicycle anymore. Or changing the gearing to fit me is somehow wrong because the "one size fits all" from the factory is magically going to actually be useful.

OMFG, you use your e-bike like a bicycle? The horrors

your points would be much more interesting if they weren’t always preceded and/or followed up by windmill-tilting scarecrowing and name calling. i’ve been around here a while and never seen any “obtuse effete elitist jerks” screaming that you shouldn’t ride an e-bike unpowered or on low power. that’s the beauty of them being e-BIKEs, not mopeds.

i’ve had a few people ASK me that, in my search for an e-bike light enough to happily ride uphill unpowered, but no screaming, no jerks, no elitists.

completely agree with your point. the gearing on most ebikes is shitty for a bicycle. my UNPOWERED bike goes from 36:34 to 52:11 (1:1.06 -> 1:4.72) and i use both ends on every single ride. my e-bike goes from 42:42 to 42:10 (1:1.00 -> 1:4.20) and i use both ends on every single ride! i customized both of them to get what i needed, which is a piece of cake on most well designed bikes, e or otherwise.

 

[Stefan Mikes]

And I could have sworn Stefan threw a conniption fit in my thread about regearing my Aventure, but now I can't find it. Maybe it was another thread, or did he get mods to remove it?

Some Aventure riders seem to be better people than you are.
For instance, once a well known EBR Forum member "The Longest Nickname" Lee who left this forum is an Aventure rider, remains my friend, and we communicate on Strava.

Lee owns as many as four bikes, of which the Aventure is the least expensive of all of them. For some reason he likes the Aventon very much. Why not? He's as an experienced rider as I am, and he is free to make his own choices.

 

[TrevorB]

I started with FS eMTB then discovered needed commuter/trekking bike. Bought quality HT MTB and fitted lights, mudguards, rack , kickstand and dongle as 25kmhr is to slow for commuter. Was awesome commuter, fast, powerful and excellent handling unfortunately my knees didn't like it so trekking never happen. Swapped to Moustache Xroad which is trekking bike and couldn't be happier. Perfect commuter, trekking bike also capable of some offroad exploring.

Still have FS eMTB with dongle and 2 sets of wheels (road and offroad tires). Use occasional for commute and offroad exploring. MTBing seems to have gone by wayside. Awesome faster commuter with dongle, powerful brakes and FS.

See lot of older couples riding quality FS eMTBs and using them for trekking ie railtrails. While these are awesome bikes the riding position is compromise for long rides. For most FS of HT trekking bike would be better option especially as most of these eMTBs would never see a MTB park and single track riding.

 

[Jeremy McCreary]

I just really don’t get all the ridicule, anger, and negativity. Well actually I do, but I guess I wish I didn’t. How hard is it to take what is useful and leave the rest without all the invective? What does all that angst really do for you? And for that matter why do you even have that need?
...
There are more important things to focus on and worry about.

Well put, and couldn't agree more. Happened to see this at the doctor's office just this morning and thought about this forum:

Being kind is better for all concerned, both mentally and physically, and especially for yourself. The medical research is clear.

Remember, nothing — I repeat nothing — that we discuss here warrants zealotry, snobbery, or hard-line stances. Life's just too short.

To be clear, the vast majority of the posts I see here are respectful and helpful. Kudos to the many members who consistently handle themselves that way.

 

[tomjasz]

Here s the thing. A while back we asked help translating a site with a part that someone in the EU was looking for. “Richard” was asked to help to translate the Polish but since it wasn’t something “Richard “ found interesting the response was just that. “I’m not interested”, we were trying to help a new poster but the fella refused to help. It’s what we do here. And assist regardless of different choices. At least the good guys, are all in to help. Instead of demeaning anyone with a different path. Not everyone has 3-4k to spend and we all aren’t interested in blowing our own horn.

 

[Horace71]

Well put, and couldn't agree more. Happened to see this at the doctor's office just this morning and thought about this forum:
View attachment 147061

Being kind is better for all concerned, both mentally and physically, and especially for yourself. The medical research is clear.

Remember, nothing — I repeat nothing — that we discuss here warrants zealotry, snobbery, or hard-line stances. Life's just too short.

To be clear, the vast majority of the posts I see here are respectful and helpful. Kudos to the many members who consistently handle themselves that way.

 

[Robspace1]

So basically you're ignoring the post that started this thread? Particularly since:

Flies completely in the face of 90% of Stefan's points as he lords his "expertise" over us, whilst regurgitating the same nonsensical propaganda driven BS and bike culture elitism?

You KNOW he's one of these clowns when he starts kvetching about the weight of a kickstand. Sure, just throw it down in the mud. HIS ENTIRE FLIPPING POINT is to attack those who dare to make modifications for comfort, sizing to the individual, etc, etm.

His entire "use it as designed by the maker" section is precisely the type of effete pedantic BS I'm talking about.

And I could have sworn Stefan threw a conniption fit in my thread about regearing my Aventure, but now I can't find it. Maybe it was another thread, or did he get mods to remove it?

I made all kinds of nice changes to my bike to add more comfort for longer rides. I could care less what anyone say's about doing it. It's natural to improve on anything you buy if possible. Most ebikes can easily be upgraded with better tires, lights, handlebars, seats, suspension, fenders, etc. Unless you have a custom made machine that you designed from the ground up, then you can and should improve on it all you can. It's only gotta please you, nobody else.

 

[tomjasz]

My take is, if I cannot fix it I get another one

That’s not an option for many. And the shameful aspect of budget rides. The eBike ends up as scrap and a waste of resources, time, and energy.

 

[tomjasz]

you can get a real bargain on a used high-end bike from time to time.

I went through a phase where I convinced myself I needed to own a ride from the upper tier, until I realized I’d lose the right to repair. Making an eBike just as dealer dependent as our newest, and last 10 cages.