Thoughts Of An Experienced E-Biker

[gromike]

Most of my cross country bicycling was done in the olden days. Just me on the bike, but I did learn to sing.

 

[fooferdoggie]

My body has issues with energy as all my fuel comes from protein because I cant eat carbs at all. so riding with others would be pointless without a e bike. I just don't always have the energy. what I do have I spend commuting 18 miles a day and then hopping on the tandem with the wife and riding 10 to 15 a day weekdays if the weather allows in winter. 25 to 50 on weekends. I max out at 350 miles a week and that is a hard week. so all my spare time is riding and more of that on the tandem for longer rides. )plus its all I can afford it may cost 500 or more just in chains brass and tires and such to ride that much a year.

 

[Jeremy McCreary]

You are tougher than I am. No outdoor winter riding for me. Now using an indoor spin bike, and virtual reality cycling apps, and enjoying doing virtual group rides or solo rides, all from the comfort of indoors.

I've never ridden an indoor bike with virtual reality. Are there VR options besides terrain?

It'd be fun to cycle the solar system in VR -- lapping the rings of Saturn, racing Phobos and Deimos around Mars, playing dodge 'em in the asteroid and Kuiper belts, running through the sprinkler that is Enceladus, orbiting Io to watch the volcanos go off. No shortage of great places to ride.

 

[Rome]

I ride solo all the time. I get a better workout this way only at a higher speeds. My rides are broken down to 3 categories, fitness ride is where I push all in on highest assist and best my own time, 2nd is commute ride, also on highest level assist then 3rd is leisure ride. I take my time smell the scent of fresh mown grass, meet and greet folks on the pathways.
I'm glad to have discovered the joy of ebiking.
My saddle is from an aventon level it's firm but not narrow I call it touring saddle.

 

[PSm]

I've never ridden an indoor bike with virtual reality. Are there VR options besides terrain?

It'd be fun to cycle the solar system in VR -- lapping the rings of Saturn, racing Phobos and Deimos around Mars, playing dodge 'em in the asteroid and Kuiper belts, running through the sprinkler that is Enceladus, orbiting Io to watch the volcanos go off. No shortage of great places to ride.

Don’t know about imaginary rides. The ones out there are either based on real roads and routes/courses around the world but presented in computer generated 3D, or are actual videos that are captured by cameras and move faster as you ride faster (and sometimes have the added computer generated riders superimposed on the actual video).

 

[Rome]

I thought I was the only member smoking Cannabis.
China Wall I think will be the best..
Your avatar and a loud Bafang Ultra FS.
Ring Ring Ring. Which way do you guess the tourists and locals move. Left or Right.

 

[fooferdoggie]

Don’t know about imaginary rides. The ones out there are either based on real roads and routes/courses around the world but presented in computer generated 3D, or are actual videos that are captured by cameras and move faster as you ride faster (and sometimes have the added computer generated riders superimposed on the actual video).

that would be the cool part seeing different places we are pretty stuck where we can get o the tandem. but I have found the tandem is more of a workout. mentally and physically. this is todays ride rode the tandem I them morning the bottom ride and the other two were my commutes. burned around 200 calories on the commute rides but 300 on the tandem ride higher heart rate too.

 

[PSm]

If you want a look at what the VR riding is like, here’s a good YouTube overview

. Maybe start at 12 minutes into the video for an interesting few minutes. It’s got me hooked. Outdoor riding when the weather is good, and indoor training for cold or inclement weather or when I only have a spare 30-45 minutes.

 

[Jeremy McCreary]

If you want a look at what the VR riding is like, here’s a good YouTube overview

. Maybe start at 12 minutes into the video for an interesting few minutes. It’s got me hooked. Outdoor riding when the weather is good, and indoor training for cold or inclement weather or when I only have a spare 30-45 minutes.

Thanks! Pretty cool. I can see how this kind of VR would make indoor riding a lot more interesting.

But riding Valles Marineris would be even cooler. The necessary Martian digital elevation models exist and are probably in the public domain. Vertical resolution could be a problem, but interpolation and smoothing could take care of that.

Best of all, you could race Marvin the Martian. Just be careful. He's a sore loser, has an Illudium Q-36 Explosive Space Modulator, and isn't afraid to use it.

 

[Stefan Mikes]

@PSm: How do you ride an e-bike on the trainer? Can you pedal the trainer for 4-5 hours?

A big part of my cycling buddies ride the trainer in the winter-time. I am afraid no trainer can simulate a decent gravel group ride? With all the shakes, bumps, fighting with ruts, carrying the bike over obstacles? I understand the trainer is a convenient thing but I am all for the adventure!

Now, with the temperatures slightly above the freezing point I learned wearing lightweight and breathable clothes for my rides. It is such a great pleasure to zoom in the cold environment being so nicely insulated against the elements!

The clothes I wear now for the rides are minimal compared to what I was wearing three, two, or one year ago:

1. Base layer underwear for legs, warm cycling bibs, socks, and either regular 510 shoes or hiking boots (depending on the weather)
2. A top modern (very thin) cycling jersey with detachable sleeves. It serves as the basic layer for the torso, is breathable but does not let the wind in
3. Helly Hansen Men's Crew Midlayer Sailing Jacket. It is a miraculous thing in terms of light weight and protecting the body against the elements
4. A balaclava, snowboarding helmet and matching goggles
5. Very warm winter cycling gloves.

I only wear any warmer clothes than described during the frost. The only weak point is it takes time to put the clothes on before any ride...

 

[kevinmccune]

That’s what I thought, since I got the indoor bike for my spouse, and she loves it.

So I was SHOCKED when I started doing virtual races (with others around the world), competing with them while having my power in watts, FTP in w/kg, speed, cadence, BPM and hill incline data all displayed, and am REALLY ENJOYING IT. The Wahoo app even allows drafting, with watts saved displayed when you are above a certain speed, and at the proper distance behind other riders. And going downhill, you generate speed and can save your energy coasting, just like outdoors. And having the proper line into corners even makes a difference. And just like outdoors, if you lose the pack, it takes a lot of effort to regain and get back on the draft. Very unexpected fun, since I love biking outdoors.

The solo rides, and non-races are TBH too boring for me. So sticking to races and group rides only, and working to increase my FTP, and improve my standings at the finish in these virtual races.

But still looking forward to better weather and getting back outdoors.

A rule I cannot stand to exercise with nothing accomplished it has to have an end game rather than ephemeral benefits, firewood, gardening, making the loop , building something. etc, the years of very uncomfortable hard physical labor in the elements cured me of that( plus working for people who really thought they would never run out of wage slaves)

 

[kevinmccune]

Thanks! Pretty cool. I can see how this kind of VR would make indoor riding a lot more interesting.

But riding Valles Marineris would be even cooler. The necessary Martian digital elevation models exist and are probably in the public domain. Vertical resolution could be a problem, but interpolation and smoothing could take care of that.

Best of all, you could race Marvin the Martian. Just be careful. He's a sore loser, has an Illudium Q-36 Explosive Space Modulator, and isn't afraid to use it.

View attachment 144472

Calling D Adams!

 

[kevinmccune]

@PSm: How do you ride an e-bike on the trainer? Can you pedal the trainer for 4-5 hours?

A big part of my cycling buddies ride the trainer in the winter-time. I am afraid no trainer can simulate a decent gravel group ride? With all the shakes, bumps, fighting with ruts, carrying the bike over obstacles? I understand the trainer is a convenient thing but I am all for the adventure!

Now, with the temperatures slightly above the freezing point I learned wearing lightweight and breathable clothes for my rides. It is such a great pleasure to zoom in the cold environment being so nicely insulated against the elements!

The clothes I wear now for the rides are minimal compared to what I was wearing three, two, or one year ago:

1. Base layer underwear for legs, warm cycling bibs, socks, and either regular 510 shoes or hiking boots (depending on the weather)
2. A top modern (very thin) cycling jersey with detachable sleeves. It serves as the basic layer for the torso, is breathable but does not let the wind in
3. Helly Hansen Men's Crew Midlayer Sailing Jacket. It is a miraculous thing in terms of light weight and protecting the body against the elements
4. A balaclava, snowboarding helmet and matching goggles
5. Very warm winter cycling gloves.

I only wear any warmer clothes than described during the frost. The only weak point is it takes time to put the clothes on before any ride...

Plus its a bit of armor against the spills, I still have 2 nice deep scars on my right elbow from my "fattie spill", left elbow finally stopped aching, probably should have went to the E Room, OTH it is so expensive in this fair land and my addled brain remained in my cranium( BTW sold that fat tired monster to a nice looking red head the other day, little did her boyfriend realize She has 7 league boots now( as long as it doesnt throw Her, would assume she has better balance than Me)

 

[PSm]

A rule I cannot stand to exercise with nothing accomplished it has to have an end game rather than ephemeral benefits, firewood, gardening, making the loop , building something. etc, the years of very uncomfortable hard physical labor in the elements cured me of that( plus working for people who really thought they would never run out of wage slaves)

Same. That’s why for my indoor riding, I’m focused on training, competing with others in races, keeping my heart rate in my target zones, and trying to increase my FTP. Gives me goals and challenges.

 

[Nomad]

Since it is Winter where I live, I had to accept the fact winter studded tyres have a high rolling resistance. Moreover, I cannot convert to tubeless as I swap tyres for the cold and warm season and the tubeless is too messy for that. I have accepted the fact Winter riding is slow.

I am currently only left with Vado SL (for an undetermined span of time). I actually enjoy riding with less assistance nowadays (as long as I'm riding solo); it makes me feel a traditional cyclist, and I work out more! Only regretting my health disallows me riding traditional bikes... (that would be really slow!)

I don't find it that messy when I switch. Do it on my Stance E2 every winter and then back in the Spring. They say you should change or add fluid after so long anyway. I do think next year I'm going to have dedicated winter and summer rims.

 

[PSm]

@PSm: How do you ride an e-bike on the trainer? Can you pedal the trainer for 4-5 hours?
A big part of my cycling buddies ride the trainer in the winter-time. I am afraid no trainer can simulate a decent gravel group ride? With all the shakes, bumps, fighting with ruts, carrying the bike over obstacles? I understand the trainer is a convenient thing but I am all for the adventure!

Now, with the temperatures slightly above the freezing point I learned wearing lightweight and breathable clothes for my rides. It is such a great pleasure to zoom in the cold environment being so nicely insulated against the elements!

The clothes I wear now for the rides are minimal compared to what I was wearing three, two, or one year ago:

1. Base layer underwear for legs, warm cycling bibs, socks, and either regular 510 shoes or hiking boots (depending on the weather)
2. A top modern (very thin) cycling jersey with detachable sleeves. It serves as the basic layer for the torso, is breathable but does not let the wind in
3. Helly Hansen Men's Crew Midlayer Sailing Jacket. It is a miraculous thing in terms of light weight and protecting the body against the elements
4. A balaclava, snowboarding helmet and matching goggles
5. Very warm winter cycling gloves.

I only wear any warmer clothes than described during the frost. The only weak point is it takes time to put the clothes on before any ride...

Ha, no indoor e-bike riding
Typically, intense half hour to hour and a half indoor rides/races. Able to do before sunrise, after sunset, or squeeze-in between work meetings! That’s the beauty of it, to be able to get good exercise when otherwise I wouldn’t have the time for it. But, anxious for the good weather and weekends, to get outside again!

 

[PSm]

P.s. the other VR cycling app I find interesting is Rouvvy, which is the one that has actual videos taken by users, that you can ride on. The Wahoo RGT app is 3D generated, but is still fun, and best of all has a Free version that still has much capability (ride a few courses anytime, and join rides/races that others have created) even if you don’t have a paid subscription.

p.p.s- hope it’s okay to be so off topic, from the OP. No doubt, ebiking is awesome, and there are so many great options these days. just adding indoor training to the outdoor 4-5000 miles a year

 

[Stefan Mikes]

p.p.s- hope it’s okay to be so off topic, from the OP.

It's OK. Valuable input indeed!

 

[Rome]

Cool if you crash leaning too deep and fast, no road rash and bruised ribs.
End result you get a workout.
I was tailing a threesome of roadies for approximately 2 miles on flat Bikeway they were averaging 25+ mph and one thing I noticed was their butts were off the skinny saddle most times. They put their weight on the pedals. I found this to be very interesting.

 

[AleksR]

A Noob

When I entered the Brave New World of e-bikes in late August 2019, I understood how the e-bike instantly changed my life. An ailing person who could hardly walk, I could suddenly zoom greater and greater distances for exercise, adventures, grocery shopping, and -- the most important of all -- for fun. Even before my ailments developed and manifested their presence, a traditional bike ride was painful for me: Countering headwind or climbing on a bike was no fun; I needed to stop every 5 km for rest. I had no incentive to be on the bike everyday! With the purchase of the first e-bike, I started riding faster, for longer distances, and as frequently as never before!

As a noob with some money, I started buying new e-bikes on the "N+1" principle to end up with 4 very different e-bikes. And, as a noob with some money, I was doing everything to improve what I bought! The number of experiments, new gear, equipment, "improvements" I've done to my e-bikes might fill a decently sized book! And I've been the noob for some three years. Until I changed. After documented 26,000+ km (16,200+ mi) ridden on e-bikes, I think I changed and reached a level of maturity.

Let me describe what I believe in now, and what experiments have brought valuable outcome.

N-1, Or Only Keep The E-Bikes You Actually Ride
If you own several e-bikes, some of them are just gathering the dust. If you choose to ride each of them, the maintenance costs start to mount to an unbearable level. After having determined my real needs, I just reduced the number of my e-bikes from four to just two. I keep a heavy, strong and fast full power e-bike that is priceless for long, demanding trips (especially in the mountains) and a lightweight low power e-bike that I ride on a daily basis, and which has proven to be appropriate for long and fast gravel group rides. Actually, I feel I still own one e-bike too many but it would be hard for me to get rid of either of them!

Use Your E-Bike As Intended By The Maker, Or Do Not Change The Nature Of Your Steed
Disclaimer: I'm only talking of good e-bikes from major bicycle brands.
The big bicycle brand has accumulated decades of experience, and makes e-bikes of a proven geometry and componentry for the intended purpose. "Do not change a bronco into a mule!"

• You have bought a premium commuter e-bike. The bike geometry tells you the e-bike should be ridden in a forward position. What do you do? You think you need to ride in a more upright position; you raise your stem then buy curved handlebars (or Jones H-bars for instance); you are replacing the saddle with the widest and softest saddle you could find. You have changed the very nature of your e-bike. You believe the changes were necessary but surprisingly you still suffer pain in your butt, hand numbness or back aches. So you experiment more and more not to avail really.
• You thought buying a full suspension e-MTB would make your city rides comfortable. Now, you have realised your electric mountain e-bike simply hates city riding! So you swap your off-road tyres for "all-rounders", raise the stem, trim your wide handlebars (ouch!), add a rack and maybe even a kick-stand. You have crippled your mountain-goat to become a cow...
• You thought a road/gravel e-bike was cool. Now, you put a comfortable saddle, a rack/pannier, long fenders, and perhaps a kickstand on your e-bike. Making it even heavier and against its intended purpose.

The issue we all are facing is an universal e-bike does not exist. We are not capable to determine our real needs prior to the purchase, either.

The Stock Components Are Not Necessarily Hopeless
If everyone of us noobs could have just tried riding our first e-bikes without immediately modifying them... I managed to make many unnecessary replacements of stock components on my e-bikes. For instance, it took me almost 3 years to realize the stock Specialized Electrak 2.0 tyres on my Vado 5.0 actually were the best thing, and I should have not replaced them in the first place. Or, it took me more than a year to find out the stock Specialized Bridge Sport saddle on my Vado SL was actually a very good thing that I really didn't need to replace with another seat! To be honest, even the stock grips on my both e-bikes that I keep were quite OK! Why to replace anything just because it is "stock"?

The More I Ride, The More Lightweight I Appreciate
That's why I ride my heavy Vado less and less, giving the preference to Vado SL.

Tyre Inflation Pressure
It is true that increasing tyre pressure makes the e-bike roll easier. On the other hand, the tyres are the ultimate bike suspension, especially for dampening rapid road vibrations. Reducing the tyre inflation to the "sweet point" between the rolling resistance and ride comfort is something I could greatly recommend to anyone!

Extra Suspension, A Worthy Thing?
Oh yes. For most of good e-bikes ridden by the Forum members, a Kinekt 2.1 or RedShift Shock Stop suspension seat-post is certainly a valuable improvement for your rear. On the other hand, installing a suspension stem on an e-bike already equipped in any form of front suspension makes little sense. Any type of the front suspension is made to dampen slow vibration; it is the tyres that flatten the rapid vibration.

Saddle
There is no Saddle Holy Grail. If you have chosen riding in a more upright position, most of your body weight will inevitably rest on your butt. Expect back/spine aches. No comfort saddle can be as soft as an armchair if you need to be pedalling your e-bike. With the riding position more forward, you lighten up your ass. Surprisingly, many aches might have gone. Once you have moved your body position forward, you will notice a seemingly hard and narrow saddle might even become more comfortable, especially if you ride in chamois. A narrower saddle means no chafing on your thighs and axils.

Pedals
Very expensive bikes are delivered without pedals. In most of cases, even expensive e-bikes will be delivered with cheap unimpressive pedals. It is your choice what you do.
I do not want to start yet another holy war with the lovers of "clipless" (who actually clip in). Just want to say good wide platform pedals with traction pins are almost as good as clipless pedals/cleated shoes, and I often ride platform pedals just in sneakers. It is your choice though.

Handlebar grips
As I mentioned before, the stock grips can be in many cases excellent. I'm a great believer in the enhancement called SQlab Innerbarends, which I perceive as one of the greatest inventions for flat handlebars. Innerbarends let me lean forward without hand numbness, be myself more aerodynamic, have perfect access to brake levers and the shifter, and keep my arms closer still retaining a pretty wide handlebars. I spend almost my ride time in the Innerbarends now. Having the Ergon GP2 bar ends available too, I hardly use them now.

Rear-View Mirror, Daytime Lights, And The Helmet
I simply cannot ride without the rear-view mirror. Inexpensive Mirrycle is the type I've used on my all e-bikes. The glass part never broke in any of several Mirrycles I have owned. The secret of the proper Mirrycle set-up is to tighten all screws very strongly. The threaded parts are made of brass there; brass can stand very strong tightening, and you can hear it squeaking when you tighten the screws: it is the proper thing.

Many of EBR Forum members are bitching they cannot switch their daytime lights off. "See and Be Seen". It is for your own safety!

Wearing the helmet goes without saying.

Keep thinking old man. Love your thoughts and passion.