Thinking outside the pannier

[Mr. Coffee]

I'm in the process of changing my touring configuration. Right now my setup is:

• Swift Industries Roll Top Panniers (about 18L each) on the rear
• Swift Industries Peregrine Rando Bag (12L) on the front
• Swift Industries Moxie Top Tube Bag on the top tube
• Swift Industries Sidekick Stem Pouch on the bars

Now this configuration has worked fairly well, but over time a couple of issues have came up. The biggest one is that the Roll Top Panniers are too big, too heavy, and they put way too much weight at the rear of the bike. Depending on the terrain this can make the bike handle poorly, sometimes very poorly.

So what I am thinking is going to smaller (about 10L to 12L) rear panniers, an overflow bag, and anything cage mounts and dry bags on the front fork.

I'm thinking of this anything cage mount from Wolf Tooth, mostly because it looks cool:

Morse Cargo Cage

The Morse Cargo Cage is designed to increase a bike’s carrying capacity. This was created for bikepacking, self-supported races, and rides that just require more gear. The Morse name extends the popular dot-dash mounting pattern that allows for 35mm of vertical adjustment, which is also featured...

www.wolftoothcomponents.com

And I can put different dry bags on them depending on the kind of trip. For lighter trips I'll probably use these small Mountain Laurel Designs bags. I already have one of the 1.6L bags that I use as an overflow bag on tour or on backpacking trips, they are very light and very well made. So I reckon for fast and light trips I will go with two 1.6L bags.

ULTRA FORK DRY BAGS

Our Ultra Fork Dry Bags are designed to fit "all things" style fork cage mounts (Ti King Cage, Widefoot Cargo Mount, Etc.) Whether you're...

mountainlaureldesigns.com

When I'm carrying heavy I'll probably use these bags from Tailfin.cc. The 3L bag seems to be about the right size for what I have in mind.

Cage Packs

Elevate the drybag! Available in 1.7, 3, and 5 Litre volumes, Cage Packs are fully waterproof, bikepacking specific dry bags.

www.tailfin.cc

Now for rear panniers. I ideally want something around 10L to 12L. I've got some eccentric criteria as well from things I've learned from experience, but I have found three different panniers that all probably fit the bill. None are perfect and all come with tradeoffs.

These Junior Ranger Panniers from Swift Industries are probably the best all-around choice. But they aren't currently available and are far and away the most expensive. On the other hand, I 100 percent know those panniers will work out fine for me:

Jr. Ranger Pannier Set - Swift Industries

The Jr. Ranger Pannier Set is a duo of lightweight, low profile bicycle panniers that were designed with gravel riding and remote bicycle touring in mind. With the Jr. Ranger Pannier Set, it’s more simple than ever to cover more territory and soak in the goodness of long days on the bicycle...

builtbyswift.com

Now this inexpensive pannier from REI looks very promising and will probably work. It lacks some features the Swift Pannier has (mostly the big rear pocket and the big side pocket) but I could more or less make it work:

https://www.rei.com/product/167661/rei-co-op-link-pannier-single?redirect-pup=false

I also found this very interesting pannier from Sim Works that could also work. Again it lacks some features of the Swift Pannier (it has a zippered closure unlike the roll top closure of the Junior Ranger and Link Pannier above). On the other hand, it has an absolutely huge mesh pocket which I think is a fantastic idea.

EX Loader

Our EX LOADER is a pannier bag that you want to use in many situations, from hard rides to everyday life, not only for touring but also for commuting and shopping. The bag is constructed of 1000D CORDURA® nylon, which has excellent durability, but is not waterproof, so when using it on rainy...

www.sim.works

I'm also going to carry a larger overflow bag, probably a larger version of the Mountain Laurel Designs dry bag that I carry on the cage mounts. The overflow bag rides on the top of the rear rack when in use, otherwise it gets stashed in a pannier:

ULTRA X 100 BIKE DRY BAGS

Our Ultra Bike Dry Bags are available in 7L, 12L, and 22L to fit whatever you need to carry. Two snaps on the top seam closure for secure...

mountainlaureldesigns.com

Now here is where it gets interesting. The REI pannier is probably more weatherproof, but that usually doesn't matter much for me because I keep the stuff that absolutely needs to keep dry in plastic bags (sometimes I just use a laundry bag as a liner inside the pannier). Also interesting is that the REI pannier and the Sim Works pannier are both sold singly, and two of them cost a little more than half as much as the Swift Junior Ranger pannier set.

So I am going to do something weird. Something that will probably make all of the other bike tourers point at me and laugh.

What I'm going to do is have the REI pannier on one side and the Sim Works pannier on the other. I'll probably keep the Sim Works pannier on the drive side where it won't get as much road spray.

Those are my thoughts at least for now. If it doesn't work I'll be selling some used panniers online somewhere...

 

[BikerG]

As for the rear panniers I use Ortleib Gravel Packs, 12 liters each, and reasonably priced. Got them from REI, on sale for about $130 for the pair. The mounts are pretty solid.

 

[Mr. Coffee]

I like the Ortlieb Panniers, and I know a lot of people out there think very highly of them. But as I said I have some eccentric and fussy criteria for panniers and the Ortilieb ones do not meet them:

• External pockets, especially for carrying wet stuff like a soggy tarp, wet stinky socks, or a wet parka
• A convenient place to mount a blinky

It is great if your panniers are extremely waterproof, but if you are forced to carry soggy stuff in them it kind of negates the point. Also, I have a bias towards either velcro straps or beefy metal hardware to attach panniers to a rack. I have learned to distrust hard plastic attachment hardware. Although I know a lot of people who seem to be happy with the Ortlieb scheme.

There are a whole bunch of panniers I like that do not meet those criteria:

Arkel Dry Lites. Inexpensive, light, and simple:

Dry-Lites Saddle Bags - 28 L (pair)

Arkel Ultimate waterproof, ultra light & fast touring saddle bags / Compatible with every type of racks easy to install / Featherweight / Suit all adventures weither it's on your E-bike, Fat bike or gravel bike / Put on the market a tough bag that will resist the environment and solid on rough...

arkel.ca

Tailfin Mini Panniers. Probably tougher and more waterproof than the Ortliebs. They look weird, though:

Mini Panniers

Tough enough even for off-road bikepacking. The 5L & 10L mini panniers provide load capacity and performance for light adventures.

www.tailfin.cc

North Street Adventure Micro Pannier:

Adventure Micro Pannier 14L

Hit the trails with North St. Adventure Micro Panniers. 14L Capacity, made from single layer 100% recycled polyester sailcloth. Built tough.

northstbags.com

 

[DiggyGun]

We use a variety of Ortlieb bags;
- panniers
- trunk bags
- fork bags

What we like about them, apart from easy to fix to the bike and waterproof, is the variety of shapes, styles and sizes that they do.

DG…

 

[Mr. Coffee]

I am kind of a Swift Industries fanboy. While their stuff is wicked expensive, the designs are bombproof, yet simple and straightforward. Unfortunately, in the last couple of years they have discontinued a lot of gear that I rather liked. They are more focused on gear for the Cool Kids. I'd also say that a lot of their designs are kind of dated.

 

[6zfshdb]

I'm also getting away from panniers. I find that it's not so much the weight but rather how far out they extend from the frame that affects handling the most. For longer rides, they're still necessary but I try to use those with a lower profile.

For shorter trips when less gear is required, I extended the bike's rear rack to make room for a rack bag and an area to strap on other items:

I also bought a larger handlebar bag to carry other gear. Between the two, I can usually go without the panniers.

 

[DiggyGun]

I'm also getting away from panniers. I find that it's not so much the weight but rather how far out they extend from the frame that affects handling the most. For longer rides, they're still necessary but I try to use those with a lower profile.

For shorter trips when less gear is required, I extended the bike's rear rack to make room for a rack bag and an area to strap on other items:

View attachment 164656 View attachment 164657

I also bought a larger handlebar bag to carry other gear. Between the two, I can usually go without the panniers.

What’s all the exposed wiring and the black box on the stay?

DG…

 

[6zfshdb]

What’s all the exposed wiring and the black box on the stay?

DG…

Just doing some rewiring.

The black box is an Archer Components D1X electronic shifter.

Archer Components Electronic Shifting for Every Bike

Electronic shifting systems for every bike. 100% compatible with any rear derailleur. Any number of gears. SRAM, Shimano, TRP, Campy, Box. We work great with everyone! This is the only electronic shifter you need for your bike.

archercomponents.com

 

[m@Robertson]

I would go a different way in front. Put a full rack on and use panniers up front. Don't use a handlebar bag except as overflow for like a wallet, phone, map etc. The panniers keep the weight lower. Pack lightweight things up front and you'll never notice the side to side weight change. A little cargo net can pin stuff down to the top of the rack without resorting to the expense of a dedicated bag.

I have had success with Axiom rear racks meant for 29er/700c bikes. For a fork with barnacles to make use of, I used Blackburn Outpost racks, which aren't cheap but are very versatile in terms of mounting options and can be adjusted for width.

This is a fat rack version but the same idea applies to the skinnier Axiom racks. Note the mounting arms down at the dropouts. They sell an 'axle kit' and this is it; used in substitution for the ones they give you meant for forks with bosses on them. That was the 2018 solution.

I had no dropouts to work with on this bike and didn't want to use the lesser (arc-dropout-shaped) axle kit. Instead used wide washers to sandwich the stock rack arms. They are a perfect snug fit over an Axelrodz skewer. I know this seems a little crazy but there's nowhere for it to move to, and the skewers are bolts you tighten and not QR. The racks are rated for 50 kg which is way more than you will ever need or want.

 

[Mike TowpathTraveler]

This is not much for Mr Coffee, who I'm sure knows, but back in the early 80's I set off to do a long ride from home here in NJ to Canada and back. I started out with a Cannondale front handlebar bag and two very nice, brand new Kirtland Tour Pack panneirs with lots of external pockets that Mr C talks of.

With most of my weight on the rear of my 10 speed, I found while coming off a 10 mile grade on New York 97 into Hancock, NY was terrifying once gravity got me up past 30 mph.......an awful, out of control shaking of the front tire. Later on, coming back home, in the Finger Lakes region, I stopped in an LBS and picked out a Jim Blackburn front rack and two matching red Cannondale front panniers. I distributed my gear and it was an instant revelation.

Ever since that episode, my last two fatbikes have been equipped with front and rear racks and the bags (Ortliebs) to match. Just in case a long tour or overnight run awaits. There really is no substitute for a properly weight-distributed bike featuring front and rear racks.

And dang it, while I was typing this, another poster chimes in with the same line of thought!

 

[Saratoga Dave]

Man, you guys keep some immaculate fat bikes! Beauties, both of them.

 

[Mr. Coffee]

I'm thinking with the cage mounts on the front fork I can carry the heaviest and most dense things there and get the nice 60/40 front/rear loading ratio the Cool Kids recommend. I should be able to fit everything (well, everything I carry less food and water for the trip) in the tiny rear panniers and the front rando bag, but overstuffed bags are hard to pack and carry poorly.

I too have noticed that having a large rear load bias produces poor stability and controllability in a lot of bikes (but not all) and can sometimes cause a frightful shimmy at high speeds.

 

[Mike TowpathTraveler]

I'm thinking with the cage mounts on the front fork I can carry the heaviest and most dense things there and get the nice 60/40 front/rear loading ratio the Cool Kids recommend. I should be able to fit everything (well, everything I carry less food and water for the trip) in the tiny rear panniers and the front rando bag, but overstuffed bags are hard to pack and carry poorly.

I too have noticed that having a large rear load bias produces poor stability and controllability in a lot of bikes (but not all) and can sometimes cause a frightful shimmy at high speeds.

Away from the bags and their mounts for a moment; I hope that whatever tour you plan to go on includes a tour report here, with lotsa picks!

 

[Mr. Coffee]

Away from the bags and their mounts for a moment; I hope that whatever tour you plan to go on includes a tour report here, with lotsa picks!

This trip last July is a lot of what is driving my current thinking:

Winthrop to Chelan

Rough roads and lonely country over the divide between the Methow River and Lake Chelan. I rode this in July of 2023. - 76.6 mi, +7281 ft. Bike ride in Winthrop, WA

ridewithgps.com

These Three Strange Days also figure prominently in my thinking:

Climb to Deer Creek Pass

Soggy foggy climb - 19.6 mi, +3161 ft. Bike ride in Snohomish County, WA

ridewithgps.com

From Upper Finney Creek to Rasar State Park

38.3 mi, +968 ft. Bike ride in Skagit County, WA

ridewithgps.com

Rasar State Park to Anacortes

I thought I had a flat but I actually ran over a slug. Oof. - 47.2 mi, +960 ft. Bike ride in Skagit County, WA

ridewithgps.com

 

[Mike TowpathTraveler]

This trip last July is a lot of what is driving my current thinking:

Winthrop to Chelan

Rough roads and lonely country over the divide between the Methow River and Lake Chelan. I rode this in July of 2023. - 76.6 mi, +7281 ft. Bike ride in Winthrop, WA

ridewithgps.com

These Three Strange Days also figure prominently in my thinking:

Climb to Deer Creek Pass

Soggy foggy climb - 19.6 mi, +3161 ft. Bike ride in Snohomish County, WA

ridewithgps.com

From Upper Finney Creek to Rasar State Park

38.3 mi, +968 ft. Bike ride in Skagit County, WA

ridewithgps.com

Rasar State Park to Anacortes

I thought I had a flat but I actually ran over a slug. Oof. - 47.2 mi, +960 ft. Bike ride in Skagit County, WA

ridewithgps.com

Absolutely beautiful country! Thanks for sharing!

 

[Mr. Coffee]

Two other things I'm rethinking unrelated to the bags, but definitely related to bicycle travel.

I used an Evernew Ti non-stick 600ml pot. Which is fine as far as it goes, but I found the pot was too thin and would still cause food to burn on the bottom. What I'm looking for is a lightweight non-stick cookpot in that size range that I can use to heat up a Tasty Bite or a can of Chili. Most of my bike touring camp meals tend to be reheating whole foods rather than rehydrating dried foods. This pot from GSI looks promising, although I'm skeptical about the little bowl/cup and the "foon".

The other, larger purchase is that I need a new quilt. My old quilt is about fifteen years old and getting a little long in the tooth (although I rather like the design). There are some newer designs out there that will do the job better and be lighter too. My feeling is that I can get away with a 30F rated quilt for my camping needs and the old 20F quilt was overkill.

Either of these quilts seem to be pretty good, if expensive, choices:

Flex 30°F Quilt by Katabatic Gear

Ships in 1-2 business days | Based in Salida, CO | Est. 2009 Updated for ’23!By popular demand, updates include an internal stash pocket to keep your phone, water filter etc. warm overnight & secondary pad attachment points to match the Elite quilts. A blanket style 30 degree sleeping bag that...

www.garagegrowngear.com

Enigma Quilt 950fp by Enlightened Equipment

***SHIPS DIRECTLY FROM ENLIGHTENED EQUIPMENT in 5-7 business days | Based in Winona, MN | Est. 2009 The Enigma is EE's lightest and most minimalist quilt. Pairing the beloved quilt template of their Revelation Quilt with a completely sewn-closed footbox, it's the perfect ultralight quilt for...

www.garagegrowngear.com

 

[Mr. Coffee]

Absolutely beautiful country! Thanks for sharing!

It has actually been a Bucket List trip for me for about three or four years.

 

[Mr. Coffee]

These inexpensive panniers (on sale right now for $111.50 for the pair) look promising. Except for not having a good blinky mounting point:

Check out the WOHO XTOURING Panniers

Taiwanese brand WOHO recently released the new Bikepacking UL Pannier Dry, a waterproof mini-pannier designed for lightweight touring...

bikepacking.com

 

[BlackHand]

These Three Strange Days also figure prominently in my thinking:

Climb to Deer Creek Pass

Soggy foggy climb - 19.6 mi, +3161 ft. Bike ride in Snohomish County, WA

ridewithgps.com

Looks like you had decent conditions. I know someone who tried that route 2 weeks before you and had to turn around somewhere around Segelsen Lake due to too much snow

 

[Mr. Coffee]

Looks like you had decent conditions. I know someone who tried that route 2 weeks before you and had to turn around somewhere around Segelsen Lake due to too much snow

View attachment 164687

Yep. There were still snow patches on the Finney Creek side of the pass when I went through, and it wasn't really warm on the day I went through there.