The Sondors Bike is Unravelling a Bit
- Thread starter George S.
- Start date
wa5
Well-Known Member
And that would be Storm and co's way out.. Damn, this is going to hurt a lot of people.
from IGG site.
So whats this about? http://www.crowdfundinsider.com/201...-against-sondors-ebike-crowdfunding-campaign/ (END)
Lawsuit Filed by Agency 2.0 Against Sondors eBike Crowdfunding Campaign
inShare1
April 17, 2015 @ 5:15 pm By JD Alois
Second Most Funded Campaign on Indiegogo Hit with Legal Challenge of “Contractual Fraud”.
Last week in the Superior Court of California in Santa Monica, Agency 2.0 filed a contractual fraud suit against Pacific Storm, Inc, apparently the corporate entity behind the Sondors eBike crowdfunding campaign. The listed defendants included Storm Sondors (né Ivars), the namesake behind the popular eBike that recently finished crowdfunding on Indiegogo.
The Sondors eBike campaign is the 2nd most funded campaign on Indiegogo of all time, having raised over $5.2 million. More than 12,000 backers have supported the project with the majority contributing under the expectation they will receive a budget eBike later this year.
The campaign suffered numerous challenges early on in the funding process as many questions were raised regarding the viability and validity of the project’s depiction. Originally labeled the “Storm” eBike, the campaign needed to switch branding mid-stream as an existing eBike already carried the moniker. The campaign has continued to have ongoing detractors but many supporters were won over by a live demo of the prototype hosted while funding was ongoing, and the involvement of the established marketing firm of Agency 2.0.
Founded by Chris Olenik, Agency 2.0 has maintained an active role in the Sondors project. The project continues to raise funding with Indiegogo’s InDemand e-commerce service and, as of today, the Agency 2.0 label remains on the Sondors eBike campaign page. Olenik’s engagement has not been visible for over 2 weeks. The most recent campaign update was from 7 days ago where Sondor’s is shown visiting the Indiegogo offices claiming to have met with Indiegogo’s CEO Slava Rubin.
On another note, research on the Santa Monica Courthouse site indicates that Storm may have previously gone under the name of Ivars. A quick search of Ivars Sondors indicates he was allegedly involved in another lawsuit several years back. According to a post on ToyJobs.com from 2011:
The Superior Court of New Jersey has awarded Toyjobs a default judgment in the amount of $39,456.00 in its personal fraud suit against former A-HA Toys president Ivars Sondors.
Toyjobs president Tom Keoughan said: “I certainly expect that Mr. Sondors will try to make it difficult to collect but we have chased him for over three years across two continents. He should realize by now that we’re not going away. The beautiful thing about a judgment obtained on a Complaint for fraud is that it can’t be cleared through bankruptcy. It sticks around and so shall we.”
from IGG site.
So whats this about? http://www.crowdfundinsider.com/201...-against-sondors-ebike-crowdfunding-campaign/ (END)
Lawsuit Filed by Agency 2.0 Against Sondors eBike Crowdfunding Campaign
inShare1
April 17, 2015 @ 5:15 pm By JD Alois
Second Most Funded Campaign on Indiegogo Hit with Legal Challenge of “Contractual Fraud”.
Last week in the Superior Court of California in Santa Monica, Agency 2.0 filed a contractual fraud suit against Pacific Storm, Inc, apparently the corporate entity behind the Sondors eBike crowdfunding campaign. The listed defendants included Storm Sondors (né Ivars), the namesake behind the popular eBike that recently finished crowdfunding on Indiegogo.The Sondors eBike campaign is the 2nd most funded campaign on Indiegogo of all time, having raised over $5.2 million. More than 12,000 backers have supported the project with the majority contributing under the expectation they will receive a budget eBike later this year.
The campaign suffered numerous challenges early on in the funding process as many questions were raised regarding the viability and validity of the project’s depiction. Originally labeled the “Storm” eBike, the campaign needed to switch branding mid-stream as an existing eBike already carried the moniker. The campaign has continued to have ongoing detractors but many supporters were won over by a live demo of the prototype hosted while funding was ongoing, and the involvement of the established marketing firm of Agency 2.0.
Founded by Chris Olenik, Agency 2.0 has maintained an active role in the Sondors project. The project continues to raise funding with Indiegogo’s InDemand e-commerce service and, as of today, the Agency 2.0 label remains on the Sondors eBike campaign page. Olenik’s engagement has not been visible for over 2 weeks. The most recent campaign update was from 7 days ago where Sondor’s is shown visiting the Indiegogo offices claiming to have met with Indiegogo’s CEO Slava Rubin.On another note, research on the Santa Monica Courthouse site indicates that Storm may have previously gone under the name of Ivars. A quick search of Ivars Sondors indicates he was allegedly involved in another lawsuit several years back. According to a post on ToyJobs.com from 2011:
The Superior Court of New Jersey has awarded Toyjobs a default judgment in the amount of $39,456.00 in its personal fraud suit against former A-HA Toys president Ivars Sondors.
Toyjobs president Tom Keoughan said: “I certainly expect that Mr. Sondors will try to make it difficult to collect but we have chased him for over three years across two continents. He should realize by now that we’re not going away. The beautiful thing about a judgment obtained on a Complaint for fraud is that it can’t be cleared through bankruptcy. It sticks around and so shall we.”
pxpaulx
Well-Known Member
I would bet they are doing it now to force an out of court settlement. If sondors were to wait for court proceedings that would likely hold up the entire build and ship process and create them a significantly larger problem.
If 2.0 perceives the money had stopped flowing on the sales side (easy enough to see, the income stream is published on indiegogo) and sondors missed a payment already then it would be 2.0s smartest move to make.
If 2.0 perceives the money had stopped flowing on the sales side (easy enough to see, the income stream is published on indiegogo) and sondors missed a payment already then it would be 2.0s smartest move to make.
wa5
Well-Known Member
Given that Ivars has been sued previously for contractual fraud, its not very surprising that he might do the same thing again.. I wonder if a couple of very astute people could engineer a situation where such an outcome was not only expected, but not even questioned. could such unnamed persons bring that situation to a point where they walked away with all the money?
one things for sure, Chris Olenik and Ivers Sondors have certainly worked together to create one hell of a storm.
one things for sure, Chris Olenik and Ivers Sondors have certainly worked together to create one hell of a storm.
@Bruce Choate - please share your boundless wisdom with us on this please? After all you know even more than you are letting on it seems. Bruce where are you now? Agency 2.o have no confidence it seems in Sondors, but as long as you do you can patronise and make demeaning comments to all his detractors, presenting yourself as some heavenly ebike guru who clearly knows sweet fa about things.
J.R.
Well-Known Member
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This has been debated well here and for the most part without hurting anyone. Lets try and remember there are more than 5000 PEOPLE in the line of fire, that will be hurt if this house of cards comes tumbling down. If SS, IGG & 2.0 go down in flames, that's one thing and they are fair game, but there are others that will come here for good level-headed information.
George S.
Well-Known Member
They are taking it with some humor over there on The Forum:
eBike.4.All
2 hours ago
I wonder if Sondors will add a mandatory “Legal Fees Surcharge” perk to the campaign offerings…
This has been the Goddamned most entertaining thing ever on the old InterWeb. I hope the folks don't get screwed, but it's just pure farce. You couldn't write some of this stuff for a movie or whatever...
eBike.4.All
2 hours ago
I wonder if Sondors will add a mandatory “Legal Fees Surcharge” perk to the campaign offerings…
This has been the Goddamned most entertaining thing ever on the old InterWeb. I hope the folks don't get screwed, but it's just pure farce. You couldn't write some of this stuff for a movie or whatever...
wa5
Well-Known Member
- JR my (silent grinning ) was directed towards one person only. Though I don't even wish to see the few who were uber nasty, making baseless accusations and threats get burned, this is far from a good situation. I really feel this is the end of the Storm bike, And I take no joy whatsoever from saying that. around 7500 people will find out some very troubling news today, they all have my sympathy
JRA
Well-Known Member
Not being a lawyer I had to google contractual fraud which is simply known as contract fraud: http://www.legalmatch.com/law-library/article/what-is-contract-fraud.html
Looks like Ivars only line of defense: http://www.legalmatch.com/law-library/article/breach-of-contract-defenses-unclean-hands.html
Still not a lawyer but it seems to me that 2.0 has been just as much at fault with portraying the bike as something that it can never be and gives Sondors/Hopp a good case for the unclean hands defense? Indiegogo takes 4% off the top but there is nothing on the 2.0 site that says what % they take for running the campaign which it is pretty obvious that Hopp and Sondors went with the full meal deal. So unless Storm is just not paying anything out to 2.0 and this is the way they feel they can get that payment or it is some way to tie up the funds altogether so that eventually nobody gets their bikes and the money disappears?
Looks like Ivars only line of defense: http://www.legalmatch.com/law-library/article/breach-of-contract-defenses-unclean-hands.html
Still not a lawyer but it seems to me that 2.0 has been just as much at fault with portraying the bike as something that it can never be and gives Sondors/Hopp a good case for the unclean hands defense? Indiegogo takes 4% off the top but there is nothing on the 2.0 site that says what % they take for running the campaign which it is pretty obvious that Hopp and Sondors went with the full meal deal. So unless Storm is just not paying anything out to 2.0 and this is the way they feel they can get that payment or it is some way to tie up the funds altogether so that eventually nobody gets their bikes and the money disappears?
JRA
Well-Known Member
If it is under 60 days you can apply for a refund from PayPal and some credit cards but also some credit cards have 120 to dispute. Early contributors will be out of luck and the bulk of the money was put forth early in the campaign which was over 60 days ago.
I wouldn't put another dime in to the Storm IGG campaign, even for the insurance, as that seems to be just a shakedown and because it is going through the Storm campaign the only claim IGG would have to the money would be 4%.
I wouldn't put another dime in to the Storm IGG campaign, even for the insurance, as that seems to be just a shakedown and because it is going through the Storm campaign the only claim IGG would have to the money would be 4%.
Credible Hulk
Active Member
Perhaps we should start up our own IGG campaign, to raise money to buy the movie rights on this sordid little farce?
George S.
Well-Known Member
It seems like about one third of the people have not paid the shipping. Clearly, they will not get bikes. The shipping numbers don't seem to be updating. I wouldn't panic or anything until there is some clarity.
You can't read too much into this. It's a dispute between an ad agency and a client, but A2 is pretty close to IGG. The thing is that Storm has probably got the money. The rules seem clear that with flex-fund you can take the money, and the PayPal money may go direct to Sondors without passing "Go". Maybe he is just resisting the pleadings of A2 for a nice chunk.
Some of the theories are a little off the wall. The campaign was very successful. I'd say this: That there has been a tension between Mr. Sondors and Mr Olenik, all along, and that is understatement. Maybe this is just payback for having the guys from A2 all over the campaign. My goodness, the number of ads A2 was putting out at the end of the extension. What the f*** did that cost? Maybe Sondo has a real case again A2, and vice versa. Or maybe there is just no honor among thieves.
You can't read too much into this. It's a dispute between an ad agency and a client, but A2 is pretty close to IGG. The thing is that Storm has probably got the money. The rules seem clear that with flex-fund you can take the money, and the PayPal money may go direct to Sondors without passing "Go". Maybe he is just resisting the pleadings of A2 for a nice chunk.
Some of the theories are a little off the wall. The campaign was very successful. I'd say this: That there has been a tension between Mr. Sondors and Mr Olenik, all along, and that is understatement. Maybe this is just payback for having the guys from A2 all over the campaign. My goodness, the number of ads A2 was putting out at the end of the extension. What the f*** did that cost? Maybe Sondo has a real case again A2, and vice versa. Or maybe there is just no honor among thieves.
Credible Hulk
Active Member
On the contrary. He'll be disappearing up his own backside today deleting posts about this news from his playpen/page, and punting anyone who dares to comment on the mess.
FWIW I'm not yet convinced that Sondors backers will receive nothing, based on this news alone. I want to know exactly what the allegations are before deciding for sure. However, a few earlier accusations (strenuouly denied by his supporters). have been proven now, like the fact that Ivars and Storm are one and the same. That's disturbing, given the prior and very similar lawsuit that Ivars lost. He seems to have a habit of trying to weasel out of contracts and payments.
wa5
Well-Known Member
Funny you should say that, he was present on this forum for a while, just as you were writing this, but would you believe it, he didn't make one single comment.....
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