The Green Room

[Art Deco]

That pretty much covers it, but I have greater empathy for nature than for mankind. We have,(for the most part),
lost touch with the natural world in our quest for self-gratification. There are those few who can still live in
harmony with nature, but that is a rare exception in our ´culture?´ If it is not sentient, there is still a cosmic cycle
of decay & renewal that will return even if it means our own extinction.

Worth noting that Dr Lovelock ? Of 'Gaia Hypothesis ' would probably agree with both of us. I believe a sentient planet could exist, but his Daisy World computer model seems to show that only life and evolution not intelligence is required for a planet to self regulate for life to continue. Interesting but way offtopic, even for us.

 

[john peck]

Worth noting that Dr Lovelock ? Of 'Gaia Hypothesis ' would probably agree with both of us. I believe a sentient planet could exist, but his Daisy World computer model seems to show that only life and evolution not intelligence is required for a planet to self regulate for life to continue. Interesting but way offtopic, even for us.

Perhaps a broader definition of sentient is in order. I´m fond of the notion, ¨ Father sky & Mother earth¨.
Just a concept? Quaint?

 

[Art Deco]

Perhaps a broader definition of sentient is in order. I´m fond of the notion, ¨ Father sky & Mother earth¨.
Just a concept? Quaint?

My Tai Chi master says Yang and Yin. Good enough names for the unname - able.
My ancestors were Scottish and made it a little more complex...Sea, Sky, and Stone ( Earth itself).
But even they agree that all three are as alive as we are alive. And they didn't agree on much.

 

[Art Deco]

Sentient to me means feeling, means awareness, means thought and understanding. It's a big jump from just unconscious but alive and healthy.

 

[john peck]

Sentient to me means feeling, means awareness, means thought and understanding. It's a big jump from just unconscious but alive and healthy.

Could be yur surroundings are aware of yur not being aware of them?

 

[Handlebars]

Consider that wildlife populations have declined 68% since 1970. If we are part of nature, we are not
leaving much for anything else. Floods try to rinse out pollution, Tornadoes are but angry spirits. Fires
leave nutrient ash on the soil. Grass returns greener than ever after a fire when moisture is not prevented
from reaching the soil by dry dead growth. These examples of what nature does are contrary to what man
is doing. While our herd is stampeding over the cliff, one running the other way seems crazy.

How can we not be part of nature? Unless we are supernatural. So being part of nature, the smart thing to do is realize that nature will follow nature's way of being, whateer that brings.
THIS DOES NOT MEAN that we should just do things without them being OUR natural way of being, which includes looking after future generations of us and whatever we recognize as being helpful in inventing, building, preserving, etc.
For example, if we drive a nation into dire Green poverty, the trees will disappear as they get burned for fuel, just as explorers ate their leather, their pack animals, etc. after a few days of starvation. large game will disappear almost immediately as they get taken by hordes of hunters.
We can't be stupidly Green followers of idiots, scrabbling politicians mouthing words, and mentally ill teenage girls - the type who show pictures of steam chimneys they believe are radioactive plumes. Those Green idiots. They cause destruction and more pollution. And most of those mentioned live much more wastefully than you and I combined. That aside, it's time to differentiate the foolishly excited poseurs, from the rational.
If we cannot find out anywhere, from any of them, what the minimum time or amount of weather data is, that can be said to make climate, we are being led by the nose by people who have nothing to tell us, people who have only a "just so" story.
Let them explain themselves. They cannot. None of them will say what the minimum is, in order to do climate "anything". No definition by metrics, means they said nothing scientific.
We have major problems to manage. That doesn't mean every squealing deranged piglet puppet of the ultra-powerful knows what is best.

 

[Art Deco]

Could be, but doesn't need to be. As long as the surrounding plants and animals are alive and healthy, that's enough to keep the cycles and webs of life and evolution going. But there are limits to what life can adapt to, and how quickly .

 

[6zfshdb]

Wait! Denial isn’t a River?

I thought Denial was a mountain in Alaska?

 

[john peck]

Well I just had a satisfying conversation with a tree leaning a bit toward my roof. We came to an understanding.
I would not cut it down if it promised not to fall on my house. To seal the deal I cut away the parasitic ivy trying
to pull it down. Now if I can only make some arrangement with the blackberries assaulting my hazel trees.

 

[Art Deco]

Well I just had a satisfying conversation with a tree leaning a bit toward my roof. We came to an understanding.
I would not cut it down if it promised not to fall on my house. To seal the deal I cut away the parasitic ivy trying
to pull it down. Now if I can only make some arrangement with the blackberries assaulting my hazel trees.

I need to have a talk with the feral cats that think our garden is a big litter box. But ammonia in a squirt bottle seems more persuasive, because the cats just don't care what I think.

 

[john peck]

I need to have a talk with the feral cats that think our garden is a big litter box. But ammonia in a squirt bottle seems more persuasive, because the cats just don't care what I think.

Dilute ammonia also puts nitrogen into the soil, so yur still helpin the garden if ya miss.

 

[Mulezen]

I remember rural electric co-op service as excellent...but that was long ago, maybe 40 years ago. They still exist?

That’s what I use—REC— as if I have a choice. Mostly they buy electrons from the behemoth Dominion Power (Va)
I think the rise of renewables is likely to put coops back in the generation business.

 

[Art Deco]

That’s what I use—REC— as if I have a choice. Mostly they buy electrons from the behemoth Dominion Power (Va)
I think the rise of renewables is likely to put coops back in the generation business.

I could see coops running generation and the behemoths doing sales, line maintenance, and transmission. Our main utility, PPL in Pennsylvania, is already doing that.
They also deal with the government, so all the coal plants, windmills, and solar farms don't have to.

 

[john peck]

My Tai Chi master says Yang and Yin. Good enough names for the unname - able.
My ancestors were Scottish and made it a little more complex...Sea, Sky, and Stone ( Earth itself).
But even they agree that all three are as alive as we are alive. And they didn't agree on much.

We´re are all aborigines at the core. I´m sure many of us are eager to bust out. I´m really tired of it.
We could build a greener happier world not just for ourselves but for all living things. If China can
stabilize dunes with growth, why can´t we? One can whine about immigrants, but there are more than
60 million climate refugees, & the number is growing much faster than the C-19 count. Those people
are those best equipped for the task at hand for they know what drought means. There is much to
be done addressing erosion & soil depletion. There are ways to harness floods not with dams, but
by adapting the flood planes to regulate a semi-aquatic agriculture.

 

[Handlebars]

(...) there are more than
60 million climate refugees, & the number is growing much faster than the C-19 count. Those people
are those best equipped for the task at hand for they know what drought means.

Yes, definitely! Just like people whose house burned down know best how to manage fire.

 

[Art Deco]

We´re are all aborigines at the core. I´m sure many of us are eager to bust out. I´m really tired of it.
We could build a greener happier world not just for ourselves but for all living things. If China can
stabilize dunes with growth, why can´t we? One can whine about immigrants, but there are more than
60 million climate refugees, & the number is growing much faster than the C-19 count. Those people
are those best equipped for the task at hand for they know what drought means. There is much to
be done addressing erosion & soil depletion. There are ways to harness floods not with dams, but
by adapting the flood planes to regulate a semi-aquatic agriculture.

We have concentrated on power grids and transportation here, but yeah, less agriculture using fossil fuels is going to be a really big hurdle to jump ... and that means food prices are going up. Backyard gardens and chicken coops ?

The whole green revolution in farming back in the 1960s was based on using lots of fossil fuels and fertilizers made from oil. Now we have breeds of cattle that can't make it on pasture alone.They make a lot of milk or meat, but need formula feeds and machines to stay healthy.

 

[john peck]

We have concentrated on power grids and transportation here, but yeah, less agriculture using fossil fuels is going to be a really big hurdle to jump ... and that means food prices are going up. Backyard gardens and chicken coops ?

The whole green revolution in farming back in the 1960s was based on using lots of fossil fuels and fertilizers made from oil. Now we have breeds of cattle that can't make it on pasture alone.They make a lot of milk or meat, but need formula feeds and machines to stay healthy.

Yes, this is a very serious issue. Today´s headline: U.N. warns we are on the edge of the abyss. That´s
optimistic the way I see it. People & manual labor will have to replace huge corporate machinery. There
have been so many ingenious, simple devices that can allow one man to farm substantial acreage without
the need for huge costly machines or drudgery. For that to happen there will have to be more people on
the land capable of producing for their immediate region. We must husband permaculture in regions unsuitable
for conventional agriculture. And, most of all, we must shade arid regions with new growth for they are
the great hot spots on the face of the planet. Take one look at the U.S. Drought Monitor maps of regions
of exceptional drought & the urgent need to halt their growth is glaringly evident.
So what´s happening instead? Those confined for a year are bustin´ out & hitting the road. Tourist traffic here
is like what might be expected in July. Air travel contributes massive amounts of greenhouse gases. The herd
is indeed stampeding toward the cliff.

 

[Art Deco]

Not Plague...Dust Bowl

 

[Handlebars]

Yes, this is a very serious issue. Today´s headline: U.N. warns we are on the edge of the abyss. That´s
optimistic the way I see it. People & manual labor will have to replace huge corporate machinery. There
have been so many ingenious, simple devices that can allow one man to farm substantial acreage without
the need for huge costly machines or drudgery. For that to happen there will have to be more people on
the land capable of producing for their immediate region. We must husband permaculture in regions unsuitable
for conventional agriculture. And, most of all, we must shade arid regions with new growth for they are
the great hot spots on the face of the planet. Take one look at the U.S. Drought Monitor maps of regions
of exceptional drought & the urgent need to halt their growth is glaringly evident.
So what´s happening instead? Those confined for a year are bustin´ out & hitting the road. Tourist traffic here
is like what might be expected in July. Air travel contributes massive amounts of greenhouse gases. The herd
is indeed stampeding toward the cliff.

"People & manual labor will have to replace huge corporate machinery."
That doesn't work anymore...way too many people and more coming...for everyone to have substantial acreage of farmland.
Our engines replaced with horses' power... there's not enough food for that many horses in the world.
.
There is no going back, only forward.

 

[Art Deco]

This might be paywalled ...the washington post was ... but this is from the Times. Bidens climate plan is a whopper.

Biden Will Pledge to Cut Greenhouse Gas Emissions Nearly in Half (Published 2021)

The president will commit the United States to deep cuts in emissions at an Earth Day summit meeting that starts on Thursday, according to people familiar with the plan.

www.nytimes.com