The elusive $1k quality E-bike... Coming this year?

[CdnShaun]

Guess I do. I have a family, am on a budget, and need to buy two ebikes so my spouse can enjoy as well. They will never replace my car as I live in too rural of a location and long distances are the norm so I have no cause to compare the two.

For the average middle-aged person interested in returning to recreational cycling via ebike I think you are way out of touch. I don't personally know a single person in my family or circle of friends that wouldn't seriously balk at a bicycle costing $3k, much less 2 or 3Xs that.

With so many amazing acoustic bike choices (manufacturers and models) available in the $600-$1200 (CDN)/$500-$1000 (USD) price range - and I'm speaking brand new - your thoughts on an amazing bicycle choice for under $1K is already here and has been for the last 4-5 years.

This in turn is where your friends/family who balk at a $3K bicycle cost (and yourself) are 100% correct in their thinking - of a bicycle.

The challenge of your $1K ebike budget, even assuming USD - is you are looking for both a quality bicycle and quality ebike conversion (or OEM components) for the elusive $1K total budget per ebike combination.

Will it happen in the next 5 years? I think so actually, ebike culture is growing every year and the events of 2020 are only accelerating this growth and interest within.


Last week I helped a friend out build an amazing ebike for $975 cdn spent plus a future steak dinner. Was it new? Nope. What we did, well he did, was search the used market in our area after I taught him what to look for. First he found what was likely a $1,500 new acoustic bike (3-4 years old in great shape) for $400 2-3 weeks ago that was his size and type of bike he wanted. He bought it, I tuned it up for him (didn't need much) and he started riding it right away to get a feel for it and loved the short rides he was having.

He then caught an ad for a 'barely used' ladies bike with a Bionx P350 kit installed and the larger 11.6ah battery for $400 (final price negotiated). He bought the bike, we pulled the kit off the bike and donated the remaining almost complete bike to a local charity operation.

$175 for my goto wheel builder (build and spokes included) and he dropped everything off at my place. Same night I had it built and ready for him to ride (I have all the zip ties and velcro covers to make an install quick) and we went for our first ebike ride together the next day.

The joy on his face was easy to see from even a distance. Being couped up mostly at home and out of work has worn on him, hence I suggested he get a bike in the first place. It took only one joy ride on one of my ebikes to have him wanting one as well and so happy he now has his own.

Like you he's on a budget. My greatest help to him was knowledge - knowing how to pick a good frame size and type of bike for him (step 1) and then what conversion kit would be a great value to him (step 2). Sure it's all used gear - but in the end he ended up with $3-4K (new) worth of equipment for under $1K spent.


I share all of this as I believe over the next 1-3 years we are going to see the used market of ebikes and ebike conversion kits expand quite a bit with people Replace-Upgrading their ebikes and others simply choosing to sell theirs off for any reason. Therefore a $1K budget may find the best value in the used market versus a new market - much like in automobiles - think of what you can buy for $15K used versus $15K new for example.

Just some food for thought. Cheers everyone.

 

[BigNerd]

This reminds me of the days when you had the skill, it was cheaper/easier to build a PC than to buy a new one... I'm talking general purpose, not gaming.

Now, after years of building PCs, for me, it's better to just buy a new computer than spend my time shopping for the parts and then going through building it (including installing the OS/etc).

I understand for many of you who have the skills/time to add on a motor kit to a nice used (or new) bike will probably end up with a better product... but what about those of us who don't have the skill? Or a friend who does have the skills that we can buy a steak dinner for?

So while I don't think $1k is quite there... I do see some that are $1200-1500 that could work. And if a 20" folder was what I was shopping for, the $899 Lectric XP is intriguing as I see several of those on the paths I bike on.

 

[Art Deco]

Other than used, I don't see it happening. If bike shops sell out of $1000 mechanical bikes every year, what incentive do manufacturers have to try to bring sub $1000 bikes to market? The super cheap ebikes remind me of the "beige box" IBM PC clones from the 90s, made from parts imported from Asia, assembled in the back room of a computer store, and sold at too low prices to stay in business. You don't see many of those around today.

 

[BigNerd]

It's the Direct To Consumer companies that will play in that $1k range.

It's hard for a no-namer to compete in the $1k mechanical bike range... but if it has a motor... they have a better chance. I'm just not sure how much margin can be made on a $1k ebike, especially if you have QC issues where you have to spend time/money on support.

 

[BigNerd]

@Timpo:

I've seen your posts about these sub $1k Japanese ebikes several times.

Why can't these make it to the US? Is it because of the speed limit and lack of "fancy" specs? These look like mid-drives so maybe no throttle?

 

[FlatSix911]

Japan is an interesting market... with very innovative and cost-effective bikes available only within the country.

You may be interested in the history of Yamaha EBikes... they are credited with inventing the world’s first electric-assist bike in 1993.

The 30th anniversary of the Yamaha e-bike

www.yamahabicycles.com

Yamaha invented the world’s first electrically power assisted bicycle (PAS) in 1993.
Since then we have been constantly innovating to deliver the most easy-to-use power assist systems. Just one ride and you’ll understand.

• Over 4 Million Drive Units used worldwide
• Over 2 Million Yamaha e-bikes sold in Japan

1989 Yamaha created first prototype in 1989.

1993 Sales of the world-first PAS bicycle began in 1993 in Japan. The concept of an electrically power assisted bicycle would later spread worldwide.

1995 A detachable nickel-cadmium battery was adopted along with a new charger with a refresh-charge function.

1999 Intelligent Flexible Energy System (IFES) was developed. This enabled data exchange between the battery, charger and controller.

2003 Lightweight, compact center-mounted drive unit with efficient direct-to-chain assist was developed. Non-contact torque sensor was developed to lighten pedaling when the battery is empty.

2008 Along with the introduction of our Brace model, we reached our 1 million bicycles sold. Creation of our Brace model was a response to consumers asking for sportier recreation bicycle with Yamaha PAS technology.

2013 The Triple Sensor System was introduced to the all-new PWseries, providing a smoother and more enjoyable ride. The increased precision of the assist control results in the most “natural and organic” pedaling feel available in ebike technology today.

2015 New Concept YPJ-R light weight road bike was introduced in Japan.

2016 Along with the introduction of our YPJ-C model in Japan, we reached our 2 million bicycles sold.

 

[Art Deco]

Wow. Cool. But I think you missed the torque curves and gear ratios.

 

[FlatSix911]

1993 was when Yamaha first got into ebike business. They definitely did not invent ebikes.
The production model of ebikes existed way back in the day, 1970 Sanyo NiCd Cycle, 1979 Panasonic EC2, to name a few.
I have no idea why Yamaha claim themselves to be the first ebike manufacture.

E-Bikes in Japan - just a little article

E-Bikes have been utilized in Japan for over 25 years. Not a lot of Americans who know about ebikes, realize this. Yamaha of course has been a big player there. Interesting to note as mentioned in the article, Japan as a country, has crossed the 500,000 annual unit ebike sales mark in recent...

electricbikereview.com

Good point. I think you have to parse their claim carefully... PAS is the key.

Yamaha invented the world’s first electrically power-assisted bicycle (PAS) in 1993.

 

[BigNerd]

So if $1k is still too elusive, what is reasonable? $1200, $1500, $2000?

Lectric XPs seems to have a lot of owners here but it looks like many of them upgrade so that $900 becomes more like $1200.

There are posts from satisfied owners in the $1100-$1500 range.

The problem is... the posts I read are fairly new... as are most of these bikes... so not sure what a 2-5 year ownership looks like.

 

[Ravi Kempaiah]

Japan is an interesting market... with very innovative and cost-effective bikes available only within the country.

Japan is a very different market compared to the US.

The country is much smaller than the US and the average weight of a Japanese male is 137 lbs and average weight here in the US is closer to 195 lbs.

Average commute distances are also much higher in the US (~16 miles). Many metro cities in Japan have high-speed rail systems that are used extensively and people don't use cars like the way we do in the US.

Most importantly, I believe the cycling infrastructure in Japan is much better than the USA. So, bikes built for the Japanese market simply won't sell in the US market.

 

[GypsyTreker]

So if $1k is still too elusive, what is reasonable? $1200, $1500, $2000?

Lectric XPs seems to have a lot of owners here but it looks like many of them upgrade so that $900 becomes more like $1200.

There are posts from satisfied owners in the $1100-$1500 range.

The problem is... the posts I read are fairly new... as are most of these bikes... so not sure what a 2-5 year ownership looks like.

I am not sure folks like myself look at the $1k eBike as a 2-5 year proposition. It's a reasonable price to pay to see if you can rekindle the enjoyment cycling provided before knees blew out or age took over, or both. As far as upgrades, some of that is strictly because its fun to personalise a bike and the same expense can apply to the higher end (seat, bars, pedals etc).

What I have come to appreciate about my sub 1k eBike is that a hub, controller, sensor and display can be had for around $350-400. That would allow for a rebuild of sorts @ say 2.5 year mark and presumably give me my 5 years of service for under $1500 or a smidge over.

So I think trying to connect quality to a price point depends on how much quality you need, for the intended use.

Since many eBikes are import "build" orders by marketing firms, I hate that someone would feel "priced" out because they are convinced that a $1k bike is crap if that's all they have or want to allocate.

 

[Art Deco]

Japan is a very different market compared to the US.
...
Most importantly, I believe the cycling infrastructure in Japan is much better than the USA. So, bikes built for the Japanese market simply won't sell in the US market.

Seems like there are lots of separate small markets worldwide.

I don't know about Japan, but there are lots of cheap ebikes in China. A decade ago they even had some kind of government program where people lined their mopeds up by apartment blocks and day of the week to exchange for ebikes. But noone would be likely to export those ebikes: they were low price, spec, and quality. And the infrastructure there was even worse than the bikes.

OTOH there are lots of expensive ebikes in Europe. And some very expensive infrastructure and regulations there. But even the top Euro spec bike won't replace a car for a long commute with our existing infrastructure, and high spec bikes aren't suited to casual rider's budgets and needs for (usually) very low speeds on trails in the USA.

Ravi, I'm glad I don't have to design a single ebike for the whole world.

 

[Art Deco]

Ebikes in China, as in Rad Power, Pedego, Volt, Juiced, etc... are super rare in China.

People who have been to China would tell you that, most Chinese people (like 99% of them) are riding moped-style ebikes.

Yep. That's what they looked like, sorta. No rack or basket that I remember. Usually a box or something strapped on back though.

 

[FlatSix911]

I still think the biggest factor is that, people in US are looking at ebikes as toys or recreational items.
From what I heard, 95% of ebikes in Japan are mamachari style ebike manufactures by Japanese companies.
You won't see Chinese bikes like RadRover or VoltBike in Japan, ever. (unless somebody decide to import them, of course)

People do import mamachari to US, however the price usually doubles because it is super expensive to import them privately.

Considering the price, mamachari is not bad. But I think people in America would rather drive a big V8 Ford SUV than ride an ebike for daily commute.

https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=459085101213039

Interesting... had to look that up to understand the meaning.

Mamachari is a mash-up of two Japanese words meaning “mother” and a slang term for “bicycle”.

Mamachari - commuting Japan style - Katie Anderson

Everywhere you go in Tokyo are people on bicycles, riding on the streets and sidewalks, with kids strapped in the front and back, on their way to school, shopping or work. But these “mamachari” bikes are nothing like I’ve seen before. Mamachari is a mash-up of two Japanese words meaning...

kbjanderson.com

 

[FlatSix911]

Very cool design with the low center of gravity for the child seat.

We had them back in the '80s with high diamond frame bikes... an accident waiting to happen.

 

[Alex M]

Don't hold your breath, mamarachis are not coming yet - not to the US market. They've been making mamarachi for years but not for the US.

Apples to apples, there is not much price difference from commuters. On a brief glance at Bridgestone line of mamarachi several months ago I remember prices from $US 1,300 approximately. This is close to entry-level commuter in the current US market (excluding some bikes of Walmart quality). But then again, it's meaningless comparing prices of commuters in the US market to mamarachi sold in Japan.

 

[GenXrider]

Here you go. Early bird pricing is $999 on the new Espin Nero through August 31.

Nero

Nero with High-Quality E-bike At Affordable Price. Lightweight Aluminum eBike Frame Folding Fat Tire Electric Bike & City Bicycle & urban commuter Custom-designed for city and commuter riding, our electric bikes, step through folding ebike, feature pedal assist, throttle, and motor-assisted...

www.espinbikes.com

EBR thread: https://electricbikereview.com/forums/threads/espin-nero.35765/

 

[Art Deco]

Imagine being able to ebike with a drive / battery that can draw power from a wireless charging power grid that is as commonplace as wifi or cell coverage today. Probably not in my lifetime but who knows. That would be a game changer. But back to reality, yeah, I don't see the current battery paradigm having significant weight or cost reductions.

Technically, we could power low power ebikes from lots of wireless stations. Economics would not work at all , and people that live by the wireless boosters might glow in the dark, but doable, I think.

 

[Ravi Kempaiah]

Here you go. Early bird pricing is $999 on the new Espin Nero through August 31.

Nero

Nero with High-Quality E-bike At Affordable Price. Lightweight Aluminum eBike Frame Folding Fat Tire Electric Bike & City Bicycle & urban commuter Custom-designed for city and commuter riding, our electric bikes, step through folding ebike, feature pedal assist, throttle, and motor-assisted...

www.espinbikes.com

EBR thread: https://electricbikereview.com/forums/threads/espin-nero.35765/

That's pretty interesting!

 

[GenXrider]

That's pretty interesting!

They've changed the early bird to "first 200 units", so it might not last until Aug 31st now. On the plus side, the premium package for early bird was lowered $50 to a total of $1099.