Tell me your thoughts on my first eBike Build...

[readabook]

Although I have been lurking around and reading alot on the forum, I am proud to make this my first post...

I am thinking of combining this kit/battery setup:

Passion 48V 1500W Motor Conversion Kit for 26" Rear Wheel

1400W lithium battery 48V 30AH

I have a pretty decent mountain bike lying around that should be perfect to use...

I will be traveling around 15 - 30 miles (one way downhill the return trip up a steady incline)...

Any thoughts/sugggestions/previous experiences from the community would be great, as this is my first build!

Thanks in advance for your constructive criticism !!

 

[readabook]

I am pretty confident that this setup will give me the power I need etc...

My inquiry is more based on whether or not these parts will work will together.

 

[Adam319]

I can give you few things to look at since I just built my bike. Are your shifters integrated with your brakes? If they are, then you should have a new set of shifters on order. I have not heard of this passion one before, so I am not up on what reliability it has. I ended up getting a 48v magjic pie from ebay pretty reasonable. I went with that due to the people on here vouching for it and also because it seemed to be a bit less crap on the bike. I also got a sun-thing lifepo4 15ah battery. Do yourself a favor before you order your battery...figure out how you are going to mount it to the bike and mock it up with something the same weight. I ride 4 miles in and had it over my rear wheel. Wow lotta weight in there. I do too much curb jumping and pot hole avoidance to have it mess with my center of gravity like that. I keep it in my back pack now and just plug in and go. It is nice because I was going to bring my battery in anyway, but it is still pretty heavy lugging around. Just for a reference, I will do about 20 miles before I charge (my charger was DOA, trying to get that worked out) and I am above 50% capacity on my 15ah battery. I do pedal, but mostly not to draw attention to how fast I am going if I wasn't pedaling. I also ride at about 22 mph the whole way in up a couple pretty big hills. If I were to do it again, I would prolly get a luna bottle battery.

 

[Ann M.]

Sounds like a pretty powerful setup, @readabook ; however, there's no specific brand shown for the motor or controller other than 'Passion'. It's a total unknown- how well does it perform over time and the 35Nm of torque is not particularly much, so this is more of a speed system rather than a climbing system.

As for that battery, stay away from it! There's no brand label to the type of lithium cells in the pack or the BMS and nothing about the particular chemistry. I suspect given their statement about ' double the life span of SLA batteries' which would be a total of 4 years (SLA's usually are gone in 2 years or so) that the cells are probably a really cheap, older chemistry- LiCo. Reputable battery builers give life in number of charge cycles. So for the price of $580 USD, it's no bargain. I think you could do better and get something that's known to be reliable.

 

[harryS]

I'm not a mountain biker. Never rode down a hill trail while going around trees and rocks. Is the best part of the sport going up or zooming down? So I don't know about what you really need in field, but have you considered the weight of a powerful direct drive hub motor on your ride?

Some of those big motors get up to 9 or 10 kilos, 20 pounds or more. A mid drive motor like a 1000W BBSHD will cost more, but is half the weight and more balanced.

As for the battery, I know my 10AH battery pack is only 3 kilos (6.2 pounds). A 30Ah pack might be 2.5X-3X more? It doesn't matter at all if you're riding in the street, but maybe a smaller battery is more fun to ride up and down hills. Bring two.

Don't forget torque arms if you're putting big power into the rear wheel. 1000 watts is enough to loosen the axle nuts, and rip up the slotted carrier, wrecking the wiring, and maybe causing accident/injury.

 

[readabook]

I can give you few things to look at since I just built my bike. Are your shifters integrated with your brakes? If they are, then you should have a new set of shifters on order. I have not heard of this passion one before, so I am not up on what reliability it has. I ended up getting a 48v magjic pie from ebay pretty reasonable. I went with that due to the people on here vouching for it and also because it seemed to be a bit less crap on the bike. I also got a sun-thing lifepo4 15ah battery. Do yourself a favor before you order your battery...figure out how you are going to mount it to the bike and mock it up with something the same weight. I ride 4 miles in and had it over my rear wheel. Wow lotta weight in there. I do too much curb jumping and pot hole avoidance to have it mess with my center of gravity like that. I keep it in my back pack now and just plug in and go. It is nice because I was going to bring my battery in anyway, but it is still pretty heavy lugging around. Just for a reference, I will do about 20 miles before I charge (my charger was DOA, trying to get that worked out) and I am above 50% capacity on my 15ah battery. I do pedal, but mostly not to draw attention to how fast I am going if I wasn't pedaling. I also ride at about 22 mph the whole way in up a couple pretty big hills. If I were to do it again, I would prolly get a luna bottle battery.

Thanks for the solid input @Adam319!!

Essentially I am taking a gamble by going with the brand 'Passion' , but I am on a budget of 1,000 ~ USD tops ... (VAT and custom fees in Greece make AliExpress a cheap option)

In terms of battery placement, I was thinking rear rack mount - but may try to distribute the weight more to the front (thankfully I have a best friend who is an Engineer with a well equipped workshop for getting creative with battery placement)

I will essentially be riding on winding roads that are in OK condition - very hilly (if you've been to a Greek island you know what I mean!)

How many watts is your motor?

Sounds like a pretty powerful setup, @readabook ; however, there's no specific brand shown for the motor or controller other than 'Passion'. It's a total unknown- how well does it perform over time and the 35Nm of torque is not particularly much, so this is more of a speed system rather than a climbing system.

As for that battery, stay away from it! There's no brand label to the type of lithium cells in the pack or the BMS and nothing about the particular chemistry. I suspect given their statement about ' double the life span of SLA batteries' which would be a total of 4 years (SLA's usually are gone in 2 years or so) that the cells are probably a really cheap, older chemistry- LiCo. Reputable battery builers give life in number of charge cycles. So for the price of $580 USD, it's no bargain. I think you could do better and get something that's known to be reliable.

Yeah, I want to be sure that I can make it up some hills around here - I was having trouble finding 1500w rear hub motor kits. Thank you for the insight on torque!!

I understand the battery is crap... I was looking to get at least a year or two of 17+ AH
haha like I said my budget plays into this... I should really look into one of the well-known Samsung or Panasonic but they are significantly more expensive... and this seller offers 'no customs chargers'... sketchy - but a result of my economic situation!

Thank you for the informative reply!! I am eagerly waiting a response @Ann M.

I'm not a mountain biker. Never rode down a hill trail while going around trees and rocks. Is the best part of the sport going up or zooming down? So I don't know about what you really need in field, but have you considered the weight of a powerful direct drive hub motor on your ride?

Some of those big motors get up to 9 or 10 kilos, 20 pounds or more. A mid drive motor like a 1000W BBSHD will cost more, but is half the weight and more balanced.

As for the battery, I know my 10AH battery pack is only 3 kilos (6.2 pounds). A 30Ah pack might be 2.5X-3X more? It doesn't matter at all if you're riding in the street, but maybe a smaller battery is more fun to ride up and down hills. Bring two.

Don't forget torque arms if you're putting big power into the rear wheel. 1000 watts is enough to loosen the axle nuts, and rip up the slotted carrier, wrecking the wiring, and maybe causing accident/injury.

Sorry to mislead you with my original post @harryS - I intend on riding my bike on windy, hilly, cement roads (in decent condition).

Do you think I should seek out a 1000W kit? I really need the power just to climb uphill.



Thanks for the replies - community !! The process of my eBike education is ongoing and extremely interesting - thanks once again for all the constructive input.

 

[readabook]

(Link Removed - No Longer Exists)

Maybe at the end of the day something like this is less of a headache and will have the power/tourque to get me uphill?

 

[Ann M.]

So we know you want power, range and hill climbing ability, readabook--Greece would be challenging on the last! You don't ask for much , pretty much what many of our riders want, too. Don't know what import tariffs would be for kits coming from the US; however, do check out ElectricRider's hub motor kits, they have both power & torque systems and the prices are reasonable. In addition, they manufacture quality lithium packs in house and will build to your specific needs or battery shape. These guys have been in the ebike business 17+ years.

Mid drive motors are another option to explore and can create a ton of torque but you need to know your bike's bottom bracket size & width to get a proper fit. You may find the hub motor easier to install. It will help us help you if we know what bike you plan to install the kit on.

 

[flymeaway]

return trip up a steady incline

Couple of concerns. Will the controller be able to handle max amp load when you're going slowly up a continuous grade? You will be asking a lot from the motor and controller, overheating and fried circuits are an issue when going slowly up grades with hub motors. It's not as much an issue with mid-drives. The battery seems like overkill...30AH is a very large capacity, it's difficult to imagine why a 20AH wouldn't be better and you are more likely to find a way to mount it on the down tube.

I appreciate the money consideration ($1,000 USD) but the other side of that argument is buying a system that is marginally able to do the job, or won't do the job and you just wasted $1,000.

Court J.

 

[flymeaway]

I am thinking of combining this kit/battery setup:

Here is a very good price on a mid-drive that will do what you want.

http://lunacycle.com/hot-new/bafang-bbs02-750w-mid-drive-kit/

Court J.

 

[readabook]

So we know you want power, range and hill climbing ability, readabook--Greece would be challenging on the last! You don't ask for much , pretty much what many of our riders want, too. Don't know what import tariffs would be for kits coming from the US; however, do check out ElectricRider's hub motor kits, they have both power & torque systems and the prices are reasonable. In addition, they manufacture quality lithium packs in house and will build to your specific needs or battery shape. These guys have been in the ebike business 17+ years.

Mid drive motors are another option to explore and can create a ton of torque but you need to know your bike's bottom bracket size & width to get a proper fit. You may find the hub motor easier to install. It will help us help you if we know what bike you plan to install the kit on.

Great suggestion with the website! Now that I am thinking more creatively/out of the box on solving my issues of budget constraints - I realize that I could order from US shops to a friend and have him ship them my way (to keep VAT cost down).

Couple of concerns. Will the controller be able to handle max amp load when you're going slowly up a continuous grade? You will be asking a lot from the motor and controller, overheating and fried circuits are an issue when going slowly up grades with hub motors. It's not as much an issue with mid-drives. The battery seems like overkill...30AH is a very large capacity, it's difficult to imagine why a 20AH wouldn't be better and you are more likely to find a way to mount it on the down tube.

I appreciate the money consideration ($1,000 USD) but the other side of that argument is buying a system that is marginally able to do the job, or won't do the job and you just wasted $1,000.

Court J.

Thanks for this @Court J. - your response kind of leveled my head - I think I was a bit overexcited and ultimately would have ordered low-quality parts.

Here is a very good price on a mid-drive that will do what you want.

http://lunacycle.com/hot-new/bafang-bbs02-750w-mid-drive-kit/

Court J.

Since I am now looking at US shops as an option this is right up my alley - I was able to make a Mid Drive 750w w/ Dolphn 48v NCRB 13.5ah
For less than 1,000 USD I will be breaking my budget just for shipping (not bad!)

My question is... will this be enough to get me back up a big hill and to my house? I am about 180lbs and in good physical shape (I won't just be relying on the throttle.)

Attached are some relevant details about said incline.


Thanks again for all the replies ~ this is a truly helpful community !

 

[readabook]

Just to clarify friendly forum people - I misspoke about range before - A range of ~10 miles would be more than enough !! Anything extra is super but not neccesarily needed.

honestly my biggest concern is climbing this hill on my way back from town

 

[Ann M.]

@readabook, at our shop we ask folks to think a little beyond the initial commute to what other places they might like to go. Once you're used to the ebike setup that 'Aha!' moment hits and you realize that there's a lot more that you could do with an electric bike. Building a system that can handle a little more than your 10 miles + the bad hill will give you flexibility to explore more. That way range doesn't limit you by buying too small up front and you don't waste money by buying too much battery or motor either. The 48V 30Amp battery isn't necessary to have good range, even with hills/mountains and I concur with @flymeaway about the risks of such a high amp hour battery with an average controller.

 

[flymeaway]

honestly my biggest concern is climbing this hill on my way back from town

The 48V 750W Bafang mid-drive can handle your 7.5% grade 2.5 mile distance no problem. The part numbers you specified will do the job just fine. All you have to do is confirm that your bike's bottom bracket meets the requirement for the installation. If you go to the 8Fun forum you can read the various posts on installs and see pictures of completed installations.

Court J.

 

[readabook]

...a Mid Drive 750w w/ Dolphn 48v NCRB 13.5ah

... will this be enough to get me back up a big hill and to my house? I am about 180lbs and in good physical shape (I won't just be relying on the throttle.)

Yeah so after doing some more research, it seems like a DD motor is better for my needs (steady climbing) - and that paying extra for a reputable brand is well worth it.

It seems like the Bafang BBS02 750w Mid Drive KIT with a 48v Panasonic NCRB 13.5ah should at the very least cover my trip into town and the steep hill on return.

Does that sound about right? Also with so many battery options on the Luna site I am kind of at a loss.... I am leaning towards the Bottle Batteries like a Dolphin or Shark style (for weight distribution) rather than a rear pack.

 

[readabook]

The 48V 750W Bafang mid-drive can handle your 7.5% grade 2.5 mile distance no problem. The part numbers you specified will do the job just fine. All you have to do is confirm that your bike's bottom bracket meets the requirement for the installation. If you go to the 8Fun forum you can read the various posts on installs and see pictures of completed installations.

Court J.

Thanks again for a super post !

You guys rock! After weeks of research it feels good to talk to a community who can provide awesome advice.

ebikes could do wonders for small island communities ! but people rather waste their money and health on cars and mopeds !

 

[wren]

Yeah so after doing some more research, it seems like a DD motor is better for my needs (steady climbing) - and that paying extra for a reputable brand is well worth it.

It seems like the Bafang BBS02 750w Mid Drive KIT with a 48v Panasonic NCRB 13.5ah should at the very least cover my trip into town and the steep hill on return.

Does that sound about right? Also with so many battery options on the Luna site I am kind of at a loss.... I am leaning towards the Bottle Batteries like a Dolphin or Shark style (for weight distribution) rather than a rear pack.

It sounds like you are on a much better track then when you first posted, and that mid drive will certainly handle hills ... that is the mid drive specialty!

 

[flymeaway]

It seems like the Bafang BBS02 750w Mid Drive KIT with a 48v Panasonic NCRB 13.5ah should at the very least cover my trip into town and the steep hill on return.

For your comparison I rode my bike yesterday on a 31.3 mile loop. The total grade change was 2,068 feet. There were two climbs of 1/4-1/2 mile at 5+% grade and one short climb of 1/4 mile at about 7.5%. The bike I rode was equipped with the 48V 750W BBS-02 and the Luna Shark 52V 13.5 AH with Panasonic NCRB cells. When I was finished the battery voltage showed 48.5V. The controller is programmed to draw up to 20A which I find provides plenty of power. On PAS level 5 the motor is drawing just over 1000 watts.

Court J.

 

[readabook]

Thanks again for putting me on the right track - I am amazed with the helpful spirit of this forum/community ! Bravo!!

For your comparison I rode my bike yesterday on a 31.3 mile loop. The total grade change was 2,068 feet. There were two climbs of 1/4-1/2 mile at 5+% grade and one short climb of 1/4 mile at about 7.5%. The bike I rode was equipped with the 48V 750W BBS-02 and the Luna Shark 52V 13.5 AH with Panasonic NCRB cells. When I was finished the battery voltage showed 48.5V. The controller is programmed to draw up to 20A which I find provides plenty of power. On PAS level 5 the motor is drawing just over 1000 watts.

Court J.

Very helpful to know!

It sounds like you are on a much better track then when you first posted...

Thanks to you guys!


At this point I'm trying to decide between the BBS-02 and the BBS-HD.

Not for concerns over power, but for increased reliability and efficiency

 

[readabook]

Well here is a quick update on my build before I confirm my order.

This is my bike that I will convert (upgraded with better front suspension/ front and rear lights / and (Link Removed - No Longer Exists) :

In the end I will go with the BBSHD from Luna. I intend to pair it with:

The Luna Aluminum Chain Ring Adapter (42T Sprocket)
The Standard C965 Display
Twist Throttle
Programming Cable
Luna Wrench

Carbon Shark 52v GA 13.5ah
52v 3amp Lithium Aluminum Smart Charger

Wish me luck! and thank you for the educational support.

I hope my next post will be pictures of my first eBike build !