Suntour NCX, another mismatch for me.

[Jason Knight]

Tell me, are all the ones with these fancy mechanisms so terrifying to ride? I just tried it for a 4 mile ride, was going to be 20 but I turned around because for me it's utterly and completely unsafe. It felt like it was going to throw me off the bike within the first 50 yards, and I went down twice! I've not been that scared out and about riding since I tried a noseless saddle! I was glad I was out in my full armor for once!

That 50mm of travel is just plain in the wrong direction. When the seat is being pushed UP into you the force should go back the direction it's coming, not be deflected backwards sliding the seat out from under you! Every stupid "little" bump (I'm in Keene NH, there are no small bumps) it felt like I was falling off the bike! Crossing the college campus alone, a spot with a lousy 1" drop and phwee face-first into the bar stem I went. Glad I moved the display on my Aventure to the side instead of the stock center position... and that I didn't come down crotch-first on the top-tube. And praise be for Aventon's "step-over" being what most other brands would call a step-through.

I've been riding a cheap $34 "Catazer Exo Form" 40mm dampened spring loaded post for a little over a year, and it is not only a more comfortable ride for me, it's so much safer and that 40mm feels like twice the USEFUL travel of the goofball overengineered mess the Suntour NCX is. At least it directs all the movement on the axis of motion instead of deflecting it rearward for Christmas only knows what!

Is this because I'm an upright rider in a wide seat with cruiser bars with my weight distributed across the whole seat, instead of on those wafer thin ridiculously narrow "I have to wear a nappy for comfort" seats in the back-breaking crotch-rocket lean so far forward it hurts your neck to look straight ahead position?

I thought it looked ridiculous from an engineering standpoint. But then I say the same thing about the "sit bones" BS, the notion that what side (ass or seat) the padding is on makes a lick of difference, or any of the other overpriced marketing scam nonsense that seems to be so hot and trendy, preying on the gullible and ignorant.

Sorry, but this thing reeks of scam artists exploiting "but it looks fancy" and hoping placebo does the rest.

 

[Jason Knight]

Side note, thank you Amazon for no questions asked return, and for using Kohls as a dropoff point so I don't have to worry about shipping. Back in box, label printed, dropping it off when they open up in 4 hours. Amazon might be a dirtbag company run by a dirtbag, but their priority on customer satisfaction is first in class.

Trying a lot of stuff to see what works and what doesn't for me that way.

 

[Avg_Joe]

Guess I'm doing something wrong as I have 2 Suntour NCX seatposts and can say they work well, no issues whatsoever. Stock springs in both as they are the correct rate for my weight. Both are slightly preloaded. Riding either bike is smooth and controlled.

Please do a Niagara-Falls-of-Words post to learn me what I'm doing wrong to make these things actually work. Bonus points for alluding to myths I've ingested w/o a thought, how others and I got snookered into Yet Another Marketing Scam, and half a bonus point for every other tangential rant loaded with condescension and denigration you can throw in...

 

[AHicks]

I have/am using 2 of them as well. After installing a spring designed/calibrated for my weight, I think they work pretty awesome as well.

Did you install it backwards or something?

 

[Taylor57]

I have/am using 2 of them as well. After installing a spring designed/calibrated for my weight, I think they work pretty awesome as well.

Did you install it backwards or something?

Someone on this forum installed it backwards once. They sent in a picture and it was clearly installed bass akwards! Turned it around and Voila! I have them on all 5 of my ebikes and wouldn't ride without em...

 

[jabberwocky]

At least it directs all the movement on the axis of motion instead of deflecting it rearward for Christmas only knows what!

So the seat/pedal length stays the same; if it telescopes straight down, your pedal stroke changes. Most of them are designed to be run on bikes where you'll be pedaling.

 

[fooferdoggie]

Sorry, but this thing reeks of scam artists exploiting "but it looks fancy" and hoping placebo does the rest.

Humm sounds like you want to sit on a pogo stick? all good suspension seat posts work the same.

 

[Taylor57]

I have/am using 2 of them as well. After installing a spring designed/calibrated for my weight, I think they work pretty awesome as well.

Did you install it backwards or something?

 

[jabberwocky]

Humm sounds like you want to sit on a pogo stick? all good suspension seat posts work the same.

Pretty much everyone roughly follows the old Cane Creek Thudbuster design (which was a mature product even when I started cycling in the early 2000s). A parallelogram linkage with some sort of spring joining things, so the seat compresses down and backwards in an effort to create suspension without your pedal stroke massively changing during. Sometimes you'll find telescoping posts on cheap comfort bikes, and I do think a few companies make nicer ones (PNW has one I think that is their dropper post with some suspension built in).

 

[fooferdoggie]

Pretty much everyone roughly follows the old Cane Creek Thudbuster design (which was a mature product even when I started cycling in the early 2000s). A parallelogram linkage with some sort of spring joining things, so the seat compresses down and backwards in an effort to create suspension without your pedal stroke massively changing during. Sometimes you'll find telescoping posts on cheap comfort bikes, and I do think a few companies make nicer ones (PNW has one I think that is their dropper post with some suspension built in).

yep I did not like the thud buster but it was in the middle of winter and that makes rubber harder. But I found the I took the post off my commuter with the same seat and settings and put it on my tandem and I was bouncing up and down. I found it pretty much useless. plus it depends on the seat a springy seat can cause issues with them too.

 

[jabberwocky]

yep I did not like the thud buster but it was in the middle of winter and that makes rubber harder. But I found the I took the post off my commuter with the same seat and settings and put it on my tandem and I was bouncing up and down. I found it pretty much useless. plus it depends on the seat a springy seat can cause issues with them too.

Yeah, thats one reason everyone abandoned elastomer springs for bike suspension bits. I have a Kinekt 2.1 suspension post on my non electric gravel bike and it uses normal springs and works ok. Lots of different takes on the exact geometry among the different designs (just like everyone has their own interpretation of the 4 bar or virtual pivot point rear suspension design, even if they are broadly similar).

 

[AHicks]

Yeah, thats one reason everyone abandoned elastomer springs for bike suspension bits. I have a Kinekt 2.1 suspension post on my non electric gravel bike and it uses normal springs and works ok. Lots of different takes on the exact geometry among the different designs (just like everyone has their own interpretation of the 4 bar or virtual pivot point rear suspension design, even if they are broadly similar).

Poor elastomer experience here as well, even after purchase of the correct one.

 

[Jason Knight]

Did you install it backwards or something?

If the video @Taylor57 posted (thanks for that) has it mounted the correct way, then no I didn't have it on backwards. And you can clearly see it deflects the force backwards instead of down in said video, making it -- for me at least -- near useless for what a suspension seat is for. Again I've not felt that unsafe since I tried out a friend's bike that had a noseless saddle.

You can see it in the video, it's sliding the seat backwards. How the hell is that supposed to be useful or safe?

Humm sounds like you want to sit on a pogo stick? all good suspension seat posts work the same.

No, I at least want dampening of said spring so it doesn't boingy boingy boingy. Which is why the cheap ass $35 amazon special post is a better fit for me than this bizarre "half the travel it's rated for in a USEFUL direction because it slides the seat backwards" rubbish.

Every time it compressed it felt like the seat was being yanked out from under me with that backwards motion. That "kind of almost down and ridiculous amount of backwards travel" on it was absolutely terrifying for me just crossing the college campus. Horrified to think what it would be like on the various rail trails in the area.

It feels like everything people talk up and praise in the higher prices seem to be a complete mismatch for me. From the scratchy uncomfortable sore inducing spandex garbage, to the "oh just turn down the controller" crap for it "racing out from under me", to the alleged comfort and/or pain reduction of straight bars and narrow thin seats... It all ends up unsafe, doing more harm than good, and reeking of propaganda driven marketing scam BS.

 

[mschwett]

…
Please do a Niagara-Falls-of-Words post to learn me what I'm doing wrong to make these things actually work. Bonus points for alluding to myths I've ingested w/o a thought, how others and I got snookered into Yet Another Marketing Scam, and half a bonus point for every other tangential rant loaded with condescension and denigration you can throw in...

QFT

 

[AHicks]

@Jason Knight, clearly you aren't happy with it, nor are you happy with the pretty basic engineering principles involved. You did look at the pictures, right? I'm surprised those principals weren't more apparent when you purchased it? Did you bother setting the spring tension for your weight? Damping? Really? You expected damping to be available? I'm glad Amazon took it back for you.

 

[jabberwocky]

I mean, its pretty apparent how these things will move looking at the linkages. Sounds like any backward movement isn't for you. There are some linkage posts that move backward under compression less, but I'm pretty sure they all do to some extent. Again, these are designed for normal cyclists who will be pedaling most of the time. The backwards movement is a little weird, but its better than your pedal stroke constantly changing which is weirder and can cause actual joint problems.

I'm not aware of any suspension seatposts with an actual damping circuit. They are all just springs. Your body weight is the damper. If it feels too springy its probably just too much spring tension so its returning too strongly.

 

[fooferdoggie]

It feels like everything people talk up and praise in the higher prices seem to be a complete mismatch for me. From the scratchy uncomfortable sore inducing spandex garbage, to the "oh just turn down the controller" crap for it "racing out from under me", to the alleged comfort and/or pain reduction of straight bars and narrow thin seats... It all ends up unsafe, doing more harm than good, and reeking of propaganda driven marketing scam BS.

if I remember right you have seat with springs? if so they may be fighting each other.

 

[Jason Knight]

I mean, its pretty apparent how these things will move looking at the linkages. Sounds like any backward movement isn't for you.

I knew they directed down and back, but I just wasn't expecting so much of the travel to be back so far that I'd slide off the front of the seat when it compresses and then get thrown clear off when it releases.

Again, these are designed for normal cyclists who will be pedaling most of the time.

I think more so it's that they're designed for "crotch rocket" riders, which I'm not. If you were leaning forward the direction of travel would be more inline with the spine and weight distribution. In the upright seating position it's almost 45 degrees off angle from where the weight is going into the seat.

The geometry is just wrong for those of us who can't lean forward onto straight bars without screaming in agony due to compression of the coccyx and sacrum since your weight isn't on the "sit bones" no matter how many marketing scammers claim otherwise..

The backwards movement is a little weird, but its better than your pedal stroke constantly changing which is weirder and can cause actual joint problems.

I don't see how either approach would change that any differently. You're still moving as far, just a different direction and that has to take you "out of parameters."

I'm not aware of any suspension seatposts with an actual damping circuit. They are all just springs. Your body weight is the damper. If it feels too springy its probably just too much spring tension so its returning too strongly.

On my cheap $35 amazon one if I force it compressed it does not "spring back" immediately. It clearly has some form of damping with weight on it or not. Whether that's a friction fit, some sort of air or oil damping, I can 't say... But it's not the super-springy some people seem to complain about with cheaper posts. More than adequately stops vibration without introducing its own oscillation.

if I remember right you have seat with springs? if so they may be fighting each other.

Now that could be a contributor, but it really doesn't explain why it literally felt like the seat was being pulled out from under me, and then on the "return" throwing me into the handlebars.

It looks too complicated for its own good, the ride quality was horrifyingly bad, and the way people talk them up -- like so many other things in biking -- reeks of blindly parroting propaganda and falling for bandwagon than it does anything rooted in fact.

The way people react when I say that only reinforcing the idea that it's more about cognitive dissonance, mob mentality, and glittering generalities than it is reality. Like dealing with religious zealots instead of rational adults.

 

[Viking1]

It sounds like the preload spring was too tight for you. I have an NCX on my Gazelle and love it. For the device to feel like it was pushing you forward tells me it sounds like too stiff of a spring. They come standard with the black spring but you may need the softer blue spring. Do you mind if I ask your weight?

 

[jabberwocky]

I think more so it's that they're designed for "crotch rocket" riders, which I'm not. If you were leaning forward the direction of travel would be more inline with the spine and weight distribution. In the upright seating position it's almost 45 degrees off angle from where the weight is going into the seat.

I'd almost guarantee the thudbuster style seatposts go pretty evenly to hardtail MTB riders and casual occasional cyclists, with a handful going to tandem riders (my only experience with a thudbuster was as a stoker on a tandem). No roadie is going to be caught dead with a suspension seatpost on their bike. Serious MTBers ride full suspension bikes and have no need for a suspension post.

Now that could be a contributor, but it really doesn't explain why it literally felt like the seat was being pulled out from under me, and then on the "return" throwing me into the handlebars.

It really sounds like the spring tension was too high. Not that messing with the tension would change the backwards movement that you didn't like, but it would probably have reduced that "throwing you into the handlebars" feeling.

It looks too complicated for its own good, the ride quality was horrifyingly bad, and the way people talk them up -- like so many other things in biking -- reeks of blindly parroting propaganda and falling for bandwagon than it does anything rooted in fact.

Or its because it does work for a lot of people. Something can work for most people and not work for you without it being a massive bike industry conspiracy or everyone else falling for propaganda.

The way people react when I say that only reinforcing the idea that it's more about cognitive dissonance, mob mentality, and glittering generalities than it is reality. Like dealing with religious zealots instead of rational adults.

Honestly dude, the reason you get the pushback you do is you jump straight from "this product didn't work for me" to "everyone who likes this is a victim of bike industry propaganda and I am the only one who can see that everyone who liked this is an idiot/sheep/whatever!". Everyone has different preferences. I have a drawer full of various parts that I tried and ended up not liking, some recommended by friends who are way more dedicated cyclists than I am. Take it as a lesson learned, return or sell what didn't work and use the knowledge gained to purchase something thats a better fit for you.