Starting off

[PedalUma]

This is what I feel as I pass $12000 bikes out on an old Polish three speed. And am finishing my meal as they arrive. The fun in their pain. Schadenfreude. They are kitted out in padded adult dipper pants and spandex while I have cashmere and tweed, blowing past their $10,000+ bikes is a blast every time.

 

[Stefan Mikes]

Show me your Strava for 2021, Uma.
(And how did you know the bike was Polish? What brand name?)

 

[kahn]

Yes, it is a mid-drive thing with some models that allow for such options. The firmware will take a class 3 bike to class 2, then add in some lag in the name of smoothness when you plug in the throttle. You don't want to do a throttle wheelie or snap the chain off at a start so lag is added. I like them perky and powerful but without bleeding-out the battery quickly so I can get big miles on a lightweight build. I like the 'throttle' in my foot with a torque sensor. Here is a recent build. The idea being, take a $300 bike and make it out run and out last $9400 bikes from stores. This Specialized 10-speed has a gold chain to commemorate the birthday of Mr. T. The display is on the left handlebar. The water bottle is the battery. It is lightweight and has good weight distribution with the motor between the pedals. I chopped off all the connectors and ugly wires. I will add a photo of another recent build with white wires for cleanliness and hygiene. But it is best when you get rid of all the wires, as with the third eBike.
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I wish you were local. I'd be interested in rebuilding my custom titanium which was converted to a front wheel motor. The battery takes up the convenient downtube waterbottle position making the harder to reach seat tube water bottle primary. It is more powerful than my Specialized Creo but the front motor makes for more squirrelly steering.

 

[kahn]

@Stefan Mikes

Sorry, I am not convinced. I don't have a throttle on either of my bikes although one is offered on my custom conversion but I don't find the concept deadly.

As for manufacturers maintaining their bike-pedaling pure image - the only thing pure is the BS. You've changed a bike from a human powered machine into something with a motor. It is not the same - no way, never. Yes, you are pedaling but doing it with, as they say, ASSIST!

Far be it from me to criticize e-bikes. They have extended my pedaling life but let's not make a religion out of the purity of bikes with no throttle.

And please, the "right to bear arms" could be extended to the "right to bear throttles" if the damn thing fired bullets. I think a better slogan for summer months the "right to bare arms!"

I remain convinced there is nothing anathema to a e-bike with a throttle.

I know Class 2 is for throttles. My friend is aghast that my bike and possibly hers (she's not sure), Class 3, is banned from that trail IN LAW (the sign is seriously ignored) but that a Class 2 bike the size and weight of a motorcycle is allowed on that bike-pedestrian path because of built-in SPEED restrictions. She is more inclined to have a weight standard. But neither she nor I wrote the law. Frankly, that trail has a ton of regular non-e-bikes on it and they can barrel along at any speed they want. Where's the sense in that? It probably was initially a weight concept as the first electric bikes were hefty machines. But the early and still applicable laws were not clearly thought out or extended into the future as e-bikes lost weight.

 

[Allan47.7339]

I always picture the Shinjuku Tiger when I see Uma's posts.

 

[PedalUma]

I always picture the Shinjuku Tiger when I see Uma's posts.

Shinjuku Tiger - CYCLE AROUND JAPAN | NHK WORLD-JAPAN On Demand

Shinjuku grew up during the period of rapid growth following World War Two. The spirit of these times lives on in a 50-year resident who’s become a local fixture. [From "CYCLE AROUND JAPAN"]　

www3.nhk.or.jp

@kahn, Here is a titanium bike I converted two weeks ago. Today it is a recumbent. There are plenty of great bikes out there that can be updated and recycled. One of my personal favorites is a converted Crème from Poland. It is the black one by the brick wall. There is a chrome one in Canada for pre-order. https://velolifestyle.com/dutch-city-bikes/creme-caferacer-man-uno-chrome-new-arrival

 

[kahn]

Shinjuku Tiger - CYCLE AROUND JAPAN | NHK WORLD-JAPAN On Demand

Shinjuku grew up during the period of rapid growth following World War Two. The spirit of these times lives on in a 50-year resident who’s become a local fixture. [From "CYCLE AROUND JAPAN"]　

www3.nhk.or.jp

@kahn, Here is a titanium bike I converted two weeks ago. Today it is a recumbent. There are plenty of great bikes out there that can be updated and recycled. One of my personal favorites is a converted Crème from Poland. It is the black one by the brick wall. There is a chrome one in Canada for pre-order. https://velolifestyle.com/dutch-city-bikes/creme-caferacer-man-uno-chrome-new-arrival

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What kind of range to those batteries get - yes, I know if depends on use? How many rings on the chain ring - down to one? I want to see the MOTOR side view? (g)

Here's my non-Creo e-bike

 

[Stefan Mikes]

I remain convinced there is nothing anathema to a e-bike with a throttle.

Convince Specialized, Trek, Cannondale, Giant, Cube, Canyon, Bulls, Riese & Muller, Orbea, YT, Santa Cruz and one hundred more brands offering premium e-bikes they are wrong.

Start convincing Specialized. How comes they had a throttle on an older hub-motor Turbo and don't have it anymore on mid-drives? As I repeat: come to Europe. You will see people riding throttle-less e-bikes even in Alps. Because the definition of "a bike, which is a vehicle propelled by human muscle power" also includes "may be equipped with electric assistance, activated by pedalling, with the nominal continuous power not greater than 250 W, and with the maximum speed of 25 km/h" is very clear to us here. No problem to ride e-bike in any European national park that allows traditional bikes. Or ride bike paths.

Who rides throttle e-bikes in Europe? Disabled people. Such as my neighbour who cannot even walk.

Crème from Poland

Never heard of that name in Poland. More details? Manufacturer's name? Model year?

 

[PedalUma]

What kind of range to those batteries get - yes, I know if depends on use? How many rings on the chain ring - down to one? I want to see the MOTOR side view? (g)

Here's my non-Creo e-bike

View attachment 105036

Cool frame. I love it. The bikes are built with a universal connector that works with a bunch of battery sizes. The 36V connector and 48V connector are different from each other on purpose. I usually go for the smallest battery the works for a particular ride. There is no reason to take a four hour battery on a 50 mile ride when a two hour battery saves weight. Default is a 42-t single chainring. Today's build is 50-t. Zoom in on the bike by the sea. That is a mid-1980's Specialized.
That classic looking black Euro bike is still being made in Poland for 2022. https://cremecycles.com/deutsch. It is a Creme Caferacer Men Uno. There is no US distribution for these handmade Polish bikes. In North America they are only available in Montreal and Vancouver. I purchased two. The other is in Boston.

 

[Stefan Mikes]

That classic looking black Euro bike is still being made in Poland for 2022. https://cremecycles.com/deutsch. It is a Creme Caferacer Men Uno. There is no US distribution for these handmade Polish bikes.

Totally unknown here. We all know Kross.
There are thousands of niche brands. Pity they cannot make e-bikes. (Kross can make e-bikes. They make proper Euro mid-drive e-bikes and sell not only to Poland but are also successful in the whole EU).

 

[PedalUma]

Totally unknown here. We all know Kross.
There are thousands of niche brands. Pity they cannot make e-bikes. (Kross can make e-bikes. They make proper Euro mid-drive e-bikes and sell not only to Poland but are also successful in the whole EU).

There are 23 Polish dealers of Crème in the major cities. They are largely simple classic urban bikes with handmade lugged steel frames. A few are Al. Their Shimano Steps 7 eBikes look like electric bikes from about six years ago. Batteries are obvious but easily removable, a good thing. Crème's non-electrics bikes have some lower level build details that can easily be upgraded, such as grips, saddles, and pedals. But it is all about the frame. My cousin in Boston says that he feels like he is in an Italian movie when he rides his. Classic with style. Everyone comments. Here is another handmade Polish Crème conversion to electric. The owner has hand issues so it is a coaster brake. So, she does not need to rely on her hands to stop. The 'throttle' is in the pedals for her starts. Sorry, the saddle is too high in the photos. I needed to test ride it. Does it look much like an electric bike?

 

[Stefan Mikes]

Does it look much like an electric bike?

No, it doesn't.
Inherently unsafe?
Steel frames? The Polish fight for Marin bikes here.

 

[PedalUma]

Marin Bikes is head quartered in my home town. That is funny. Those Marin bikes people fight for are two for a penny around here. But now a Polish Bike, that is a rare exotic and draws attention. Steel frames are strong and have road noise dampening so you do not feel it in your joints. I read a UK study that steel is about as fast as carbon. How? It is because a rider is more comfortable at speed. BikesOnline is also in this town, White Industries is a couple of blocks away, and Yuba is on the shared border of the next town.

Here is that study: https://www.bmj.com/content/341/bmj.c6801. There could be a similar one from MIT concluding that rider comfort makes a bike faster that shaving a few pounds.

 

[Stefan Mikes]

The Marin bikes so desired in Poland are made of steel (Four Corners, for instance). Can that Polish brand Crème build gravel bikes?

 

[PedalUma]

Crème is their urban/classic line, the gravel/adventure lineup is called Rondo: https://rondo.cc/rondo-2021-collection,474,pl
People around here that can ride any bike they want, and are into the sport, go for a Rondo. These Polish bikes are super cool. Check out the titanium adventure bike. Rondo also has steel.

 

[mschwett]

This is what I feel as I pass $12000 bikes out on an old Polish three speed. And am finishing my meal as they arrive. The fun in their pain. Schadenfreude. They are kitted out in padded adult dipper pants and spandex while I have cashmere and tweed, blowing past their $10,000+ bikes is a blast every time.

you seem to be confusing or conflating how fast one's vehicle is going with how much enjoyment or satisfaction they're getting out of it. if all one cared about was going fast on something cheap, a 150cc scooter is available for <$1k which goes 55mph.

it makes one wonder who is more insecure - the dude on an expensive, entirely human powered bike in "adult diapers," or the person who repeatedly posts on the internet that they can go faster on a bike with a motor than said dude. hmmmm.