Starting off

[Gordon71]

When you are cycling Gordon, you are expected to pedal. Any "e-bike" equipped with a throttle becomes a scooter (even if you pretend pedalling). Just see for yourself: You seem to be unable to start from a junction without using the throttle. In Europe, "cycling" is understood as the pedalling thing, hence no throttle is allowed in Europe. And millions of EU e-bikes can do without the throttle. (For your better understanding: Specialized e-bikes are designed in Switzerland).

So you're upset that I use my throttle for about 10 seconds during a 2 hour ride on average so I don't have to deal with a lot of downshifting prior to a stop?
I could actually counter that with my own observation which is that riders of mid-drive bikes are always saying that they are easier to pedal than rear hub drives. Now I can't confirm that as I've never ridden one but I've seen lots of folks on this forum make that claim especially when dealing with hills. If that is true it would appear that I put in more physical effort riding my rear hub than if I was riding a mid-drive. My question then would be: Is it true and if it is not true then why are mid-drives so much more expensive than hub drives? As a side note riders of non Ebikes often call Ebike riders cheaters for having a motor and call that a "shame for cycling"

 

[Allan47.7339]

Even if it is a throttle e-bike, it is still good thing because it is very much "not a car". Large parts of NA do not consider bicycles (or your feet) a part of the transportation system.

 

[Stefan Mikes]

So you're upset that I use my throttle for about 10 seconds during a 2 hour ride on average so I don't have to deal with a lot of downshifting prior to a stop?
I could actually counter that with my own observation which is that riders of mid-drive bikes are always saying that they are easier to pedal than rear hub drives. Now I can't confirm that as I've never ridden one but I've seen lots of folks on this forum make that claim especially when dealing with hills. If that is true it would appear that I put in more physical effort riding my rear hub than if I was riding a mid-drive. My question then would be: Is it true and if it is not true then why are mid-drives so much more expensive than hub drives? As a side note riders of non Ebikes often call Ebike riders cheaters for having a motor and call that a "shame for cycling"

Gordon: One of my e-bikes is a hub-drive one. Nothing really wrong with that: It is a perfect commuter.
I only prefer mid-drives because I feel like riding a real bike on them.

And my hub-drive has no throttle. No need for. Just learn shifting.

 

[Gordon71]

Gordon: One of my e-bikes is a hub-drive one. Nothing really wrong with that: It is a perfect commuter.
I only prefer mid-drives because I feel like riding a real bike on them.

And my hub-drive has no throttle. No need for. Just learn shifting.

That's interesting. So you feel hub drives take no more physical effort than mid drives? I'm really curious then about the difference. What I mean is that my Ebike doesn't feel different than a regular bike. It's just easier to pedal up hills and for longer distances due to help from the motor. Oh and the suspension makes the ride a lot more pleasant on rougher roads.

 

[Gordon71]

I think I should explain that getting rolling from a dead stop is the ONLY time I use the throttle. I don't use either first or second gear so when I stop I'm generally in 3rd,4th,or5th. About a week ago I was doing about a 20 mile ride and got the idea to just use the throttle for the last 5 miles to see how much quicker it would use up the battery and generally what it was like. I really didn't like it. I kept wanting to pedal and had to force myself not to. Anyway I satisfied my curiosity and won't be doing that again. Other than starting from a dead stop I expect it could be handy if my chain failed or I had a mishap and hurt a leg then I could at least get home.

 

[Stefan Mikes]

I find it very strange you cannot start your ride using such low gears without assistance of the throttle. Fat bike, perhaps? Because traditional cyclists have no throttle on their bikes...

 

[Gordon71]

I find it very strange you cannot start your ride using such low gears without assistance of the throttle. Fat bike, perhaps? Because traditional cyclists have no throttle on their bikes...

Never said I couldn't but I do find it difficult to start up an uphill slope (my driveway) from a dead start in 3rd (or higher) gear. With a throttle it's easier. Yes traditional cyclists have no throttles. They also have no motors or batteries. I pass them a lot on hills where they are going so slow I could walk faster. I don't care about speed myself but do prefer at least 10MPH.

 

[JRA]

@Gordon71 I gave up on trying to make the case for throttle use on here a few years ago as it seemed like a task in futility then and still does......I find the ignore feature here is as good for not getting started down that road as a throttle is for that purpose.

 

[Stefan Mikes]

I just need to remind we're in the Specialized subforum. No current Specialized e-bike has a throttle. It has gone away together with the older hub-drive motor Turbo e-bikes.

 

[Gordon71]

@Gordon71 I gave up on trying to make the case for throttle use on here a few years ago as it seemed like a task in futility then and still does......I find the ignore feature here is as good for not getting started down that road as a throttle is for that purpose.

I just need to remind we're in the Specialized subforum. No current Specialized e-bike has a throttle. It has gone away together with the older hub-drive motor Turbo e-bikes.

I'm aware now. Only mentioned it as it would have been a good solution to the posters problem. Also it's always good to point out that a throttle is a useful accessory that should be the buyers choice. Any laws/rules prohibiting them are based mostly on ignorance and some on discrimination and should not exist.

 

[Stefan Mikes]

Any laws/rules prohibiting them are based mostly on ignorance and some on discrimination and should not exist.

So you say you would like to deprive Specialized of their principal market
Go ride your Chinese contraption. You are a free person.

 

[Gordon71]

So you say you would like to deprive Specialized of their principal market
Go ride your Chinese contraption. You are a free person.

Sorry but that makes absolutely no sense at all. Are you suggesting that if they change the EU laws to allow Ebikes with a throttle that no one will buy a Specialized bike? Even if true they could and would start putting throttles on their bikes. Yes I am a free person but I guess you want all of Europe not to be for no reason at all.

 

[PedalUma]

Back to OP. On some bikes the torque sensor resets at each startup. If you are pedaling while it starts it throws it off.

 

[Stefan Mikes]

Look to any Bosch, Mahle X35, Mahle/Specialized, Brose/Specialized, Yamaha/Giant, Shimano or Fazua mid-drive motor e-bike. No big brand is offering the throttle with any of e-bikes equipped with any of these systems. Why?

• Because it is not needed with a mid-drive at all
• Because it is against the very idea of a mid-drive
• Because the throttle is against the very idea of cycling (pedalling)
• Because of the law in the major sales market
• Because the users in that principal market mostly drive manual transmission cars and are perfectly aware how to use e-bike gears.

Don't want? Don't buy. Have you ever taken a demo ride on any e-bike equipped with one of the aforementioned systems? Are you trying to educate Specialized, Trek, Giant, or Cannondale they are so dramatically wrong not to offer a throttle if the throttle is present on any $2,000 Chinese e-bike?

P.S. Your wish of the throttle is similar to asking BMW, Mercedes-Benz or any major car brand to install a carburettor, because you cannot live without it.

 

[kahn]

Look to any Bosch, Mahle X35, Mahle/Specialized, Brose/Specialized, Yamaha/Giant, Shimano or Fazua mid-drive motor e-bike. No big brand is offering the throttle with any of e-bikes equipped with any of these systems. Why?

• Because it is not needed with a mid-drive at all
• Because it is against the very idea of a mid-drive
• Because the throttle is against the very idea of cycling (pedalling)
• Because of the law in the major sales market
• Because the users in that principal market mostly drive manual transmission cars and are perfectly aware how to use e-bike gears.

Don't want? Don't buy. Have you ever taken a demo ride on any e-bike equipped with one of the aforementioned systems? Are you trying to educate Specialized, Trek, Giant, or Cannondale they are so dramatically wrong not to offer a throttle if the throttle is present on any $2,000 Chinese e-bike?

P.S. Your wish of the throttle is similar to asking BMW, Mercedes-Benz or any major car brand to install a carburettor, because you cannot live without it.

Harsh!

Just because a bike has a throttle does not mean it has to be used. Bikes with throttles can be pedaled. And e-bikes have the same judgment against them "e-biking is against the very idea of cycling"

Here in Seattle with a very well-hidden sign there's a trail. Class 1 and 2 bikes are permitted which allows throttle bikes but Class 3, my Creo, is NOT allowed.

And I've encountered some hills where I ride where a throttle might work if you have to stop mid-hill and have to start up again. Instead, I've turned around gone down the hill managed to get it moving and powered and pedaling and gone up the hill. That would not work full stop on the hill. Mid-drive, front drive or rear drive would not matter. I've had the same problem in years of non-e-bike riding - trying to balance and push off and turn a pedal on a hill is very, very hard as the wheel(s) do not move. Okay, maybe a professional ebike rider would overcome gravity and start up from a full stop. Most mortals cannot.

Throttles are not poison. They may just have their purpose but you don't need or want it. Fully understandable.

 

[kahn]

throttle is present on any $2,000 Chinese e-bike?

P.S. Your wish of the throttle is similar to asking BMW, Mercedes-Benz or any major car brand to install a carburettor, because you cannot live without it.

Or maybe making cars with automatic transmission - NEVER. No one would not full control over their engine.

 

[PedalUma]

Over the years I have grown to dislike throttles. I will occasionally do a throttle build if someone is disabled. It is not that I have distain or am opposed. With a mid-drive torque sensor bike it is not needed and the controllers become much more lively when a throttle is removed. I like to be actively engaged. I want food I can chew like a steak instead of being spoon fed baby food. It is a personal preference. I would rather drive a stick shift than an automatic, unless I am stuck on the 405 in LA. It is funny to see someone in an autobahn super car stuck in first gear doing stop and go with the clutch on the 405 freeway in Los Angeles. Schadenfreude in action for all to laugh at. Those cars cannot go 5 Mph.

 

[Gordon71]

"and the controllers become much more lively when a throttle is removed" Is that a thing just on mid drives? There are some trails near my house that only allow class1 so I unplug my throttle when riding on them. I don't notice any difference when I do that.

"I would rather drive a stick shift than an automatic," Me too except when I'm trying to back up with a trailer which I don't do very often.

 

[PedalUma]

Yes, it is a mid-drive thing with some models that allow for such options. The firmware will take a class 3 bike to class 2, then add in some lag in the name of smoothness when you plug in the throttle. You don't want to do a throttle wheelie or snap the chain off at a start so lag is added. I like them perky and powerful but without bleeding-out the battery quickly so I can get big miles on a lightweight build. I like the 'throttle' in my foot with a torque sensor. Here is a recent build. The idea being, take a $300 bike and make it out run and out last $9400 bikes from stores. This Specialized 10-speed has a gold chain to commemorate the birthday of Mr. T. The display is on the left handlebar. The water bottle is the battery. It is lightweight and has good weight distribution with the motor between the pedals. I chopped off all the connectors and ugly wires. I will add a photo of another recent build with white wires for cleanliness and hygiene. But it is best when you get rid of all the wires, as with the third eBike.

 

[Stefan Mikes]

Just because a bike has a throttle does not mean it has to be used. Bikes with throttles can be pedaled.

A gun is equipped with a trigger, and the latter does not need to be used of course.

ere in Seattle with a very well-hidden sign there's a trail. Class 1 and 2 bikes are permitted which allows throttle bikes but Class 3, my Creo, is NOT allowed.

You should know only Class 2 allows throttles. That is why Class 2 was defined in the first place.

And I've encountered some hills where I ride where a throttle might work if you have to stop mid-hill and have to start up again. Instead, I've turned around gone down the hill managed to get it moving and powered and pedaling and gone up the hill. That would not work full stop on the hill.

It's because you ride a "2x You" e-bike. I could climb that hill from the cold start on a "4x You" one. Actually, I stopped in the front of that sign to take this very picture:

And yes, I used the Walk Mode to downshift to the granny gear while stationary.

Throttles are not poison. They may just have their purpose but you don't need or want it. Fully understandable.

So go and buy yourself a premium mid-drive e-bike with the motor from the brands I have listed. Wonder why there is no throttle on any of them. Mr. Carl Fleischer, the president of Bosch E-Bikes was very specific about his company would never allow the throttle. His argument was Bosch E-Bikes were perceived as regular bikes, (and Bosch would never sacrifice that to make e-bike an e-scooter). Other big and smaller brands using the motors I mentioned think the same.

Or maybe making cars with automatic transmission - NEVER. No one would not full control over their engine.

"I would rather drive a stick shift than an automatic," Me too except when I'm trying to back up with a trailer which I don't do very often.

Oh, yes. There is automatic transmission in some e-bikes. The name is Enviolo Automatiq. We're talking about transmission, do we. Because I mentioned carburettor on purpose.

Throttle is only used in cheap Chinese motors as these are not intended to feel a bike.