Specialized’s ultra-light 120-mile range e-bike - Turbo Vado SL
- Thread starter FlatSix911
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Asher
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It's too bad their frame probably won't accommodate the best high volume performance pavement tire in the world - the G-One Speed 60mm. Lighter and faster than what they have on there, if the Nimbus 2 tire weights are similar to Nimbus 1, ~700 grams. Tire clearance doesnt add much weight (eg Giant's latest road bike has huge tire clearance for its category but is one of the lightest bikes around) but may subtract a twinge of sleekness. And going over 25 mph at length seems like a dicey proposition even with wide tires, let alone skinny ones.
Would be interesting to compare the effect on ride quality between this tire and their in frame suspension (though obviously there are lots of confounding variables when changing frames).
Would be interesting to compare the effect on ride quality between this tire and their in frame suspension (though obviously there are lots of confounding variables when changing frames).
Over50
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This is no joke. I've been posting for the last two years about the need for some bikes to start filling the niche of light-assist, lightweight electrics in the USA. I have had high hopes that a Fazua-commuter bike or something like the Desiknio would come to our shores soon. So for me the Turbo Vado SL has been the closest thing to filling that niche. Thus I just ordered one (5.0 EQ).
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I filled out all the order form on line for a large 5.0 and wife wasn’t happy as we wait for 3 Wattagons, have 3 carcasses at home (2 should be working 1 is limping heavily) and I want to spend another 5gs ? And I have not test ridden and having issue with service in general locally ...did not hit send 
but undestand
but undestand
Over50
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It's funny how in the Fazua thread many (but not you) said that this type of bike "wasn't for America" because it was too underpowered and didn't "fit the culture". And now suddenly it's the big thing.
Don't want to brag, but we told you so.
Yes, I think it is the lightweight, light-assist and discreet systems that are going to convert a different demographic to e-bikes in the USA. Obviously just an opinion.
Ravi Kempaiah
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There are quite a few things that specialized did that Fazua lacks (still)
1. Class 3 drive system. US offers generous limits for bike manufacturers and specialized clearly used this opportunity well. Fazua limits their system to 20mph.
2. Specialized was very smart in pricing this product at a starting price of $3500. The cheapest Fazua drive bike in the US is $4800 and doesn't offer lights, racks, fenders etc.
3. Specialized SL bikes are lighter than most Fazua equipped bikes 33 lbs vs 37lbs and run at 48V compared to 36V of Fazua.
4. I'm not against charging premium prices but Fazua hasn't setup a proper US office with dedicated personnel going around doing sales and marketing. It's very minimal presence and yet they want premium price. Specialized has thousands of dealers across the nation.
5. 320 Whr on the specialized VS 255whr of Fazua (not a huge increase but still).
6. App functionality is limited on the Fazua.
7. Fazua batteries are removable and that's a plus. There were other light weight Ebikes in the US market (Faraday, Felt etc) but they were all Class 1 and we know what happened to those brands.
8. A nice class 3 bike for $3500 and weighing at 33lbs (it's worth repeating again)
9. Fazua is a drive system manufacturer and that limits their implementation abilities. If a bike manufacturer brings in a class 3 Fazua bike with commuter features for let's say $2800, that would be a good competition to specialized.
FlatSix911
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Hi Ravi, thank you for the Fazua analysis.
What is your opinion of the value proposition BD offered with the Bafang M800 Class 3 at $2,000?
http://www.bikesdirect.com/products...tric-flatbar-road-bikes-emulekick-express.htm
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Ravi Kempaiah
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Thanks for the comment. My gripe with Bafang is their lack of service and their lack of long term product vision.
Their hub motors are decent but their mid-drives clearly could use some refinement and harmonization.
If they truly care about their product, they should setup an office to support their OEM's in the US and have spare parts in hand. Their strategy might be different in EU but in the US, it places a lot of risk for the bike manufacturer as you are constantly competing with Alibaba vendors and even OEM's don't enjoy any benefit over those Alibaba vendors.
We could cut some slack because they are a small company compared to Yamaha or Bosch but that doesn't preclude them from providing support to their OEM's.
In regards to M800 and BD, most bikes ordered on BD will have a waiting time of 2 months. The bike you linked has a delivery date of July.
They basically produce them once you order and pay. They had success with Shimano mid-drives because Shimano supports their drive system well in the US but in the case of Bafang M800, if you need something, you are basically at the mercy of Bikes Direct.
I rode M600 drive that @vincent had and I thought it was ok, definitely not in the same league of Yamaha/Bosch/Brose. I have limited experience on the M800 system at the trade shows and for $1999, the bike seems like a good value.
If you observe one thing with specialized, they always work closely with the motor manufacturer and this gives them lots of leverage for tuning the system. They could have easily gone with Bosch or Shimano or yamaha but they worked with Mahle and developed their own system and this gives them an edge.
I am not sure how efficient M800 system is and how difficult it is to obtain spare batteries or other electronic items but Bafang has lots of volumes and some technical capability. (Rad Power, Juiced etc all use Bafang's hub motor and those companies alone account for 50,000 bikes a year) so, it is possible for them to build a good mid-drive product but they certainly can do better job with OEM support, service and few other things.
FlatSix911
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Thanks Ravi, let's hope that Bafang will provide OEM support in the US market as it grows in importance.
I'm still looking for the perfect super-light and fast class-3 bike at the right price point. Always N+1
I'm still looking for the perfect super-light and fast class-3 bike at the right price point. Always N+1
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Deacon Blues
Well-Known Member
In Canada the SL 5.0 and Creo aluminum are the same price ($5999 Can).
Over50
Well-Known Member
All good points @Ravi Kempaiah . I think the biggest and perhaps only advantage to the Fazua from my perspective is the ability to remove the entire system. That gives the owner some flexibility and perhaps some insurance against the firm's failure. In five years, if Fazua has gone bankrupt and you can't get a battery or new motor, well at least you still have a non-electric bike. Also it might be useful in the MTB world where some trails might not permit eMTBs. But yes, just based on e-performance, the SL system appears much more appealing vs the Fazua system.
So was wondering too what you know of Mahle? I think they are the maker of the motor that Specialized is using in the SL?
Ravi Kempaiah
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Thanks. I heard from folks in the industry that Mahle worked closely with Specialized and developed this motor according their requirements. This was in works for the past 2 years.
I don't have direct experience on that drive system and I will look forward to learning from you guys.
I think it would work very well for you but it is not a system for everyone. It would complement your Trek Allant very well.
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FlatSix911
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Yes, it is dependent on the above-average (fit) rider input required to reach 28 mph. YMMV
Ravi Kempaiah
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This sounds about right.
I think it would be take above-average rider (fitness) to reach 28mph or sustain upwards of 24 mph.
The 48V system is geared for efficiency and power while maintaining small form factor.
JRA
Well-Known Member
The 48v element will be followed by more of the manufacturers as time goes along I predict. One would assume it is comprised of 21700 cells also which I have always found odd that companies like S don't advertise although they use them in their 700wh Levo batteries.
So Ravi, just doing the quick math to get a 250w rating with a 48v battery the Amp rating must be extremely low? Like in the under 10A range given that the motor probably peaks at a higher watt rating as all do....
So Ravi, just doing the quick math to get a 250w rating with a 48v battery the Amp rating must be extremely low? Like in the under 10A range given that the motor probably peaks at a higher watt rating as all do....
jtooley
Member
I bought a 4.0 model this weekend. I am planning on using it for active fitness rides. The assist level should be perfect for that. For comparison, I have Bulls lacuba evo e45 that I use for commuting which has lots of torque and is great for speed and hills and traffic. I will share my first impressions in couple of weeks when it arrives
Deacon Blues
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I was just wondering what the 5.0 would be like with a Jones H handlebar, and how it would compare to the equally priced Aluminum Creo.
Captain Slow
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I would think so, the motor will bring you up to that speed so why not?
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