Specialized Vado 4.0 - Beware

[TForan]

Here's one for your bandwidth bitching... enjoy.

A bicycle and a mini van. You rule !

 

[TForan]

Hey, it’s a travelogue format and lots of folks use it on this forum. I find it very interesting and IMHO, its what really connects us to ebike-riding folks around the world!

Made in Taiwan sticker is interesting ? OK.

 

[kahn]

Here's one for your bandwidth bitching... enjoy.

Oh, bike, vehicle, water bottle and the flowers all in the same color scheme - I like it.

 

[kahn]

Made in Taiwan sticker is interesting ? OK.

Well, did Specialized want that wording or did Taiwan want that wording. But clearly someone thought NOT China!

 

[TS25]

I have a Vado 4.0. Just hit 500 miles. I checked the chain and smallest sprocket and it appears ok.

...

... Never heard of the gears wearing out but then again I'm not hard on them. This is my first ebike and expected more. ... as I don’t expect a 4k bike to be in the shop for repais so often. At the stated failure rates that would be every 4 months for a new gear.
Hoping to find the reality of this issue vs speculation or one person's experience.

What failure rates are you talking about, I just didn't get that, as you've done first 500 miles only, w/o issues?
The reality is posted here and is far away from the experience of people who didn't dare to check how to ride a powerful ebike.
But that ebike-power if used heavily thoughtless means more wear, of course.

 

[TForan]

Well, did Specialized want that wording or did Taiwan want that wording. But clearly someone thought NOT China!

I don't think they wanted Republic of China on it.

 

[steve mercier]

For what it’s worth … the Vado 4.0 has not been abused in any way. Well maintained and I’m not a “grinder”. Chain has been and is clean and well lubed as it should be. Perhaps a contributing factor - I’m a big guy - 6’4” 245 lbs. As for not riding on the 11t when at faster speeds … well that is just absurd. All of the mid-to-smaller cogs have plenty of use - not much on the largest ones as Michigan is mostly flattish.
After contacting Shimano about the problem, they were great … sending new cassette and chain under warranty. Also told me about a new upcoming cassette call Linkglide that should be up to 3x more durable - It should become available late in 2021. Kudos to Shimano! Not so much for Specialized. I’m planning on getting a spare Linkglide CS LG-600-cassette and chain to have on hand …

There is no doubt that these parts wear more quickly on Ebikes. I find that my Sram chrome xx1 chains outlast my front rings and smaller cassette rings. I believe ( hope) the manufacturers can and will up their game in developing Ebike specific parts that need to be stronger rather than lighter.

 

[Reece123]

There is no doubt that these parts wear more quickly on Ebikes. I find that my Sram chrome xx1 chains outlast my front rings and smaller cassette rings. I believe ( hope) the manufacturers can and will up their game in developing Ebike specific parts that need to be stronger rather than lighter.

They make cars or used to that would last 20-30 years or more, you’re lucky if a bike lasts you a couple of years if you use it a lot.

 

[Dallant]

Made in Taiwan sticker is interesting ? OK.

If you don’t have the bandwidth, don’t play the game.

 

[Stefan Mikes]

While I certainly would welcome a tutorial on shifting I must say I would love to hear from specialized for their thoughts on this.

I will write the tutorial. The knowledge how to shift is universal and is related to any derailleur bike with special importance to mid-motor ebikes. The 9 through 12 speed drivetrain is intentional and it requires similar understanding as driving manual transmission cars.

Your ebike is not a fixie. Say, you have bought a manual gearbox Toyota. Will you ask Toyota to improve their transmission or will rather take a couple of driving lessons?

 

[TForan]

If you don’t have the bandwidth, don’t play the game.

Brilliant!

 

[BioWheel]

A bicycle and a mini van. You rule !

And 3 kids! Thank you.

 

[theemartymac]

So I've been riding multi speed bikes forever. Never heard of the gears wearing out but then again I'm not hard on them.

Mountain bike riders (Real mountains with steep climbs for hundreds/thousands of meters) can wear out cassettes in LOW gear every year. Anytime you have serious sustained weight on the system you will get increased wear, so slow steep climbs, and on an ebike, anytime you are under significant or sustained throttle.

By comparison, I have a hub drive ebike very close in design to my mid drive and same quality parts. It also has 1250kms on it from commuting the same routes all last summer, but there is virtually zero chain and cassette wear because the motor drives the wheel directly. Sustained power is an absolute grinder on parts, and any dirt, under-lubrication, or misalignment is amplified a lot.

It's not Specialized's fault, its simply a design limitation in the capacity of traditional bicycle drivetrains.

 

[rochrunner]

It's not Specialized's fault, its simply a design limitation in the capacity of traditional bicycle drivetrains.

You've kind of hit on it here: the drivetrains that we're using were designed for "human" power levels whereas we're putting enhanced power through them and it's going to cost us in wear. Pro cyclists probably put out enough consistent power to accelerate drivetrain wear, but then they have access to unlimited maintenance and new bikes! Drivetrain components engineered specifically for e-bikes would probable be designed differently, but that's not the reality at this time.

 

[BioWheel]

You've kind of hit on it here: the drivetrains that we're using were designed for "human" power levels whereas we're putting enhanced power through them and it's going to cost us in wear. Pro cyclists probably put out enough consistent power to accelerate drivetrain wear, but then they have access to unlimited maintenance and new bikes! Drivetrain components engineered specifically for e-bikes would probable be designed differently, but that's not the reality at this time.

I bought a chain with a letter E designation. Said it was a chain made for ebikes - I'm assuming it's stronger than a regular bike chain but I don't know. And the jury is still out on the premature failure of cogs in the rear cassette on the Vado vs a standard bike. You'd need more data points than just a few folks talking on a forum.

 

[steve mercier]

OK, to bring this back to the original concern.
I have a Vado 4.0. Just hit 500 miles. I checked the chain and smallest sprocket and it appears ok. I ride in eco and top gear almost all the time with occasional down shifts for hills an intersections.

Ride it like you stole it ! -: I see they are riding ebikes in this Linkglide video. Maybe these new beefier components will last longer?

 

[Allan47.7339]

They claim to be more durable and slightly heavier but unfortunately Linkglide is not compatible with non-Linkglide Shimano components. The derailleur, chain, and shifter are also new with the cassette and designed to be more durable over lightest possible weight. In the meantime we will have to resort to old school shifting technique of easing or pausing on the pedals at the shifts and reduce "shifter shock" to the system.

 

[Stefan Mikes]

I bought a chain with a letter E designation. Said it was a chain made for ebikes - I'm assuming it's stronger than a regular bike chain but I don't know. And the jury is still out on the premature failure of cogs in the rear cassette on the Vado vs a standard bike. You'd need more data points than just a few folks talking on a forum.

My observation is the "E" chains are simply longer as many mid-drive e-bikes require long chains. The price of "E" chains is exorbitant; it is more practical to buy an appropriate chain (number of speeds, length) in standard finish, and replace it more often. For instance, it didn't help me using an expensive Shimano chain for my Vado: it stretched after approximately the same ride time/distance as any other. Now, I'm going with Decathlon branded inexpensive chains (these are made by KMC anyway). I'm sure REI in the States must offer similar chains.

 

[rochrunner]

One factor to remember is that 10, 11, and 12-speed cassettes all fit on the same width hub, which was originally sized when 10-speeds were introduced. So think about how they're able to add one and now two cogs to the cassette in the same total width. The answer of course is to make everything thinner and more closely spaced. This of course is going to have an effect on the strength of the cogs (which could be alleviated by choice of materials) and also requires a narrower chain that is achieved with narrower rollers (matching the thinner cogs) and thinner side plates.

I actually have a minor concern with how the 12-speed setup will wear on the Vado 5.0 SL that I hope to get, and would be really concerned if they put a 12-speed on the full-power Vado line!

And Campagnolo has introduced a 1x13 drivetrain...

 

[Stefan Mikes]

One factor to remember is that 10, 11, and 12-speed cassettes all fit on the same width hub, which was originally sized when 10-speeds were introduced. So think about how they're able to add one and now two cogs to the cassette in the same total width. The answer of course is to make everything thinner and more closely spaced. This of course is going to have an effect on the strength of the cogs (which could be alleviated by choice of materials) and also requires a narrower chain that is achieved with narrower rollers (matching the thinner cogs) and thinner side plates.

I actually have a minor concern with how the 12-speed setup will wear on the Vado 5.0 SL that I hope to get, and would be really concerned if they put a 12-speed on the full-power Vado line!

And Campagnolo has introduced a 1x13 drivetrain...

What about the 12-speed 10t cog and the special Shimano Micro Spline hub?

1x12 drive-trains are now common on e-MTBs such as Giant Trance E+ Pro (85 Nm motor). No worries. Just use the drive-train as intended and take care about the chain.

CS-M7100-12 (10-51t) during its maintenance. The fears are greatly exaggerated.
P.S. With this very cassette, you can replace any of 6 smaller cogs, should any of them wear out.