Specialized Turbo Vado SL: An Incredible E-Bike (User Club)

[Stefan Mikes]

@Ebikelife72: You cannot compare apples to oranges to potatoes. No use to compare your Sirrus to Vado SL to Tero X. The bike weight is not the only factor to affect a bike performance.

Your Tero X gives max 3.2x assistance with max power of 470 W. Your Vado SL offers max 1.8x boost with max power of 240 W. Meaning, the Tero motor is almost twice as powerful as the one on the Vado SL. Next, the battery on the Tero is 710 Wh, while the battery on Vado SL is just 320 Wh (less than half capacity).

In simple terms:

• 35/35% ECO mode on the Tero X 5.0 provides 112 W assistance per your 100 W leg input, with the maximum motor power of 164.5 W
• 35/35% ECO mode on the Vado SL gives 63 W assist per your 100 W leg power with the maximum motor power of 84 W.

The lightweight e-bike assists you with half the power of Tero X! Are you surprised your Vado SL feels sluggish? The e-bike weight is not everything, especially as it is not the bike/e-bike weight that matters but the weight of the system (bike + rider + any cargo).

Jeremy justly suggests that using SL assistance such as 35/100% would increase the battery consumption. Yes. You cannot expect getting the performance free. I recommend starting with SL 35/100% because I think you need more assistance when you really need it, especially on climbs and against headwind. Eventually, you'd find your sweet point. The second number (Max Motor Power cap) affects both the performance and the battery use.

 

[Ebikelife72]

@Ebikelife72: You cannot compare apples to oranges to potatoes. No use to compare your Sirrus to Vado SL to Tero X. The bike weight is not the only factor to affect a bike performance.

Your Tero X gives max 3.2x assistance with max power of 470 W. Your Vado SL offers max 1.8x boost with max power of 240 W. Meaning, the Tero motor is almost twice as powerful as the one on the Vado SL. Next, the battery on the Tero is 710 Wh, while the battery on Vado SL is just 320 Wh (less than half capacity).

In simple terms:

• 35/35% ECO mode on the Tero X 5.0 provides 112 W assistance per your 100 W leg input, with the maximum motor power of 164.5 W
• 35/35% ECO mode on the Vado SL gives 63 W assist per your 100 W leg power with the maximum motor power of 84 W.

The lightweight e-bike assists you with half the power of Tero X! Are you surprised your Vado SL feels sluggish? The e-bike weight is not everything, especially as it is not the bike/e-bike weight that matters but the weight of the system (bike + rider + any cargo).

Jeremy justly suggests that using SL assistance such as 35/100% would increase the battery consumption. Yes. You cannot expect getting the performance free. I recommend starting with SL 35/100% because I think you need more assistance when you really need it, especially on climbs and against headwind. Eventually, you'd find your sweet point. The second number (Max Motor Power cap) affects both the performance and the battery use.

I'm well aware of all of this but disagree about not comparing. The purpose of getting the SL was to provide a similar performance to my Sirrus but with added benefit of being able to use the motor on more difficult climbs. The issue I'm having is that in order to have a similar performance to the Sirrus I have to use a higher level of assistance than expected. With this level of assistance I will deplete the battery very quickly and then I'm stuck with a bike that, while easier to ride than most E-bikes with the motor off, it's still quite sluggish compared to the Sirrus or light bikes. I often go on 70-80 mile rides and if I have to run higher assistance on flats to be equal to the speed and ease of the Sirrus, I will likely run out of battery after 30 miles leaving quite a ways to go without any assistance. As previously mentioned, I climbed a hill in Sport mode which performed the same as the Sirrus in terms of speed and ease. I was really hoping Eco would take away the weight of the bike and provide a similar performance to the Sirrus but it doesn't.

My point in comparing my bikes is an effort to see if the SL has a place in my collection. I've got very specific use cases for the Tero as well as the Sirrus. My want for the SL was to bridge the gap between the two and I'm not sure that it does. I'm still wanting to make it work which is why I'm trying to better understand the power delivery. Again, it's a great bike, but with my current fitness it might not make a big enough difference between it and the Sirrus to justify keeping it.

 

[Stefan Mikes]

I certainly cannot change your mindset

@MartsEbike: Could you share your experience from the 72 mile very hilly ride? I'm sure the details including the fact you mostly ride OFF, and have a Range Extender would shed a light on how Vado SL should be properly used. I'd like to see the assistance charts from the Specialize App if possible!

 

[Rás Cnoic]

I'm well aware of all of this but disagree about not comparing. The purpose of getting the SL was to provide a similar performance to my Sirrus but with added benefit of being able to use the motor on more difficult climbs. The issue I'm having is that in order to have a similar performance to the Sirrus I have to use a higher level of assistance than expected. With this level of assistance I will deplete the battery very quickly and then I'm stuck with a bike that, while easier to ride than most E-bikes with the motor off, it's still quite sluggish compared to the Sirrus or light bikes. I often go on 70-80 mile rides and if I have to run higher assistance on flats to be equal to the speed and ease of the Sirrus, I will likely run out of battery after 30 miles leaving quite a ways to go without any assistance. As previously mentioned, I climbed a hill in Sport mode which performed the same as the Sirrus in terms of speed and ease. I was really hoping Eco would take away the weight of the bike and provide a similar performance to the Sirrus but it doesn't.

My point in comparing my bikes is an effort to see if the SL has a place in my collection. I've got very specific use cases for the Tero as well as the Sirrus. My want for the SL was to bridge the gap between the two and I'm not sure that it does. I'm still wanting to make it work which is why I'm trying to better understand the power delivery. Again, it's a great bike, but with my current fitness it might not make a big enough difference between it and the Sirrus to justify keeping it.

I understand what you mean. What sort of terrain are you cycling over Ebikelife? I'm in a steep hilly area. The SL motor (and low gearing) means I can ride a lot further then unassisted/analogue bike as the gradients are just too exhausting at my fitness level without help. But if I lived in a flat area I'd have no real need for the SL. There are lighter alternatives, mostly drop bar road bikes and most with the Mahle hub motors, which seems to be fine on hills as long as the gradient isn't too steep and the bikes can be several pounds lighter. A carbon fibre Orbea Gain (Di2) for instance is around 11.5Kg/24.5lbs but like all road bikes, the higher the spec, (carbon frame & wheels and Ultrgra groupset etc level) then the higher the price and lower the weight!

 

[MartsEbike]

I certainly cannot change your mindset

@MartsEbike: Could you share your experience from the 72 mile very hilly ride? I'm sure the details including the fact you mostly ride OFF, and have a Range Extender would shed a light on how Vado SL should be properly used. I'd like to see the assistance charts from the Specialize App if possible!

Specialized App wasn't used for my 70 mile ride so I don't have any charts to show assistance!

But I also own a Vado SL and a Sirrus, and there's a good 5kg difference between the two bikes, so for sure the Sirrus feels lighter and a bit more nimble. My older ebike is a 35kg Frey EX - this is the bike I rode more regularly, so from my perspective the 15kg Vado SL feels extremely light, but if you're use to riding lighter traditional bikes you may see this extra weight as a disadvantage. Much of this will depend on the abilities of the rider.

I would have thought if you can ride the Sirrus for long distances (70-80 miles) then you'd be tempted to ride the SL with the power "Off" most of the time. I average (with good legs) around 17-20 mph with the motor off, plus on my EU spec bike the motor cuts out at 15.5mph, regardless of power level. So even leaving it in Eco means anything above that speed is done under your own steam. This in itself greatly extends battery life/range. The real benefits of the SL are found at 50-75% into your ride, when you've depleted your energy and need assistance, and also on hills in-between... That's where it shines, short tests rides won't really show its capabilities. You should easily see ranges of 50-60 miles, with a range extender adding another 30 miles. This is dependent on steep hills - Turbo mode does use the power pretty quickly, so use it sparingly. Needless to say, by riding unpowered you're only limited by what your legs can provide.

Ultimately, there's two ways to go about it, you either focus on weight and your own abilities, or a focus on assistance with a battery that can provide decent range - but trying to have the best of both worlds is difficult/expensive to find. The SL is probably about as good as it gets at this price point.

Myself, I find it a great bike - it's allowed me to do miles I couldn't do otherwise, but I was never much of a traditional bike rider!

 

[Ebikelife72]

I was able to get in some riding today, rain be damned. The ride went well. I did some road riding and climbed a lot of hills, a route I’ve ridden many times with various bikes. I’m starting to get an idea of the real world range capabilities as it pertains to my riding. I currently have around 44 miles on the bike and have 57% battery left, down from the first charge of 100%. This was a mixture of Eco on the stock setting, detuned Eco, stock Sport, battery friendly Sport, and the motor off. This is a very acceptable range and likely can do better with very little effort. I rode a lot in the battery friendly Sport setting today and really liked the performance and the battery took less of a hit than I expected. After today’s ride I’m leaning toward keeping it. It was a very fun ride and I definitely felt the benefit of the motor over my Sirrus. Hopefully I can get a long ride in this weekend with panniers and really see what the bike can do.

 

[Jeremy McCreary]

I was able to get in some riding today, rain be damned. The ride went well. I did some road riding and climbed a lot of hills, a route I’ve ridden many times with various bikes. I’m starting to get an idea of the real world range capabilities as it pertains to my riding. I currently have around 44 miles on the bike and have 57% battery left, down from the first charge of 100%. This was a mixture of Eco on the stock setting, detuned Eco, stock Sport, battery friendly Sport, and the motor off. This is a very acceptable range and likely can do better with very little effort. I rode a lot in the battery friendly Sport setting today and really liked the performance and the battery took less of a hit than I expected. After today’s ride I’m leaning toward keeping it. It was a very fun ride and I definitely felt the benefit of the motor over my Sirrus. Hopefully I can get a long ride in this weekend with panniers and really see what the bike can do.

It will be interesting to see how assist usage and battery range evolve for a strong rider like you.

Enjoy!

 

[Stefan Mikes]

@Ebikelife72: Sorry if what I say is obvious. You are of course aware that shifting the colour dots in the Tune chart allows you setting your own assistance levels, aren't you.


The Battery Friendly SPORT is 50/50%. I might have written early my favourite setting was 55/55% (assist 1x, max motor power 132 W). Quite close to yours, isn't it

 

[Ebikelife72]

@Ebikelife72: Sorry if what I say is obvious. You are of course aware that shifting the colour dots in the Tune chart allows you setting your own assistance levels, aren't you.


The Battery Friendly SPORT is 50/50%. I might have written early my favourite setting was 55/55% (assist 1x, max motor power 132 W). Quite close to yours, isn't it

Yes, I know how to custom tune the motor. The 50/50 is quite good and probably the best setting for my uses. The Eco at 35/35 is ok but still oddly introduces drag when pedaling at around 17mph with the motor off and then turning it on which is the opposite of what usually happens.

 

[Stefan Mikes]

The Eco at 35/35 is ok but still oddly introduces drag when pedaling at around 17mph with the motor off and then turning it on which is the opposite of what usually happens.

Strange (but I cannot deny your observation).

My long time experience has taught me an electric bike motor loves to be spinning but hates to be underpowered. I used to set my SL 1.1 motor to very low assistance when I had to ride with extremely slow traditional cyclists. The motor was going on and off as if it were hesitant whether to assist or not. (In such situations, I preferred riding in OFF mode). I personally think your 50/50% selection is where the SL motor "feels well"

P.S. I had a look into my Strava records. I usually ride solo at 55/55% in the warm season. However, I used to modify my settings for longer rides involving the hills:

• 35/100% allowed me riding 74+ miles with a Range Extender
• 40/100% gave me the range of 70+ miles with a Range Extender
• 50/100% gave me at least 66 miles with a RE
• 55/55% gave the range of 72 miles with a RE.

It is interesting the 55/55% used the same battery charge as 35/100% but I really felt the e-bike response on the hills with 35/100!

 

[Jeremy McCreary]

The Eco at 35/35 is ok but still oddly introduces drag when pedaling at around 17mph with the motor off and then turning it on which is the opposite of what usually happens.

Never noticed that, and I ride in OFF a lot. Will have to look for it next time.

Today's mostly OFF hill ride as reported by RideWithGPS (white background) and the Specialized app (black):

Resorted to ECO on some of the steepest pitches and used SPORT in brief spurts to keep the stronger accelerations knee-friendly. The Micro Tune was a short experiment at 0-40%, and the tiny sliver of TURBO was user error.

Riding mostly in OFF and ECO held battery drain at roughly 1%/mile — not too bad for a ride averaging 72 vertical feet/mile.

Never noticed any motor drag in OFF, but the climbs in OFF were probably slower than 17 mph.

Being a so-so rider at best, had to slog up the steep stuff in my lowest gears to pull this off. (Really glad I reduced my chainring here.) You and @MartsEbike would probably have averaged a lot faster than 11.5 mph on this route.

 

[Ebikelife72]

@Jeremy McCreary I don’t notice any drag with the motor off. What I notice is when I’m riding with the motor off at around 15-17mph and then turning it the motor on in Eco mode. The bike actually feels slightly harder to pedal when I do this. This is the opposite of what usually happens on an e-bike where you’re pedaling along with the motor on and then turn it off. It’s pretty odd.

 

[Stefan Mikes]

A new experience
Guys, whenever you use tubeless wheels, have a suitable compressor at home and a CO2 booster pump on the trail (the latter might not be necessary, just in case). I don't own either...

I decided to replenish the sealant for the second time last evening. The first replenishment took place in August this year, and was uneventful. Yesterday, I relieved the pressure in the rear wheel using the valve core, then removed the valve core and injected 60 ml of sealant into the tyre then re-inserted the valve core. As I started re-inflating the thing, some sealant appeared between the rim and the bead and I could not inflate the wheel! Gave it several minutes, and then working hard, I managed to seal and inflate the wheel. So far so good. However, repeating the operation for the front wheel, I could notice the tyre bead slipped off the rim! It was impossible to fix the thing without the compressor or a CO2 booster...

I admit I am a poor bike mechanic This morning, I totally disassembled the tubeless system on the front wheel, washed everything and installed a Schwalbe Marathon Winter Plus studded tyre in the tubed setup. I may need to get rid of tubeless for the rear wheel when it starts freezing anyway...

I could also compare a tubeless folding gravel tyre (Tracer Pro) to a heavy, wired and puncture protected one (Winter Plus). The folding tyre was soft, supple, a real pleasure to work on. The wired tyre was as hard as the hippopotamus skin!

 

[2wheelsgood]

I can recommend the Joe Blow booster pump - expensive but it certainly feels like a quality item.

Great for tubeless.

JOEBLOW® BOOSTER

Half air compressor – Half pump. The JoeBlow® Booster pump just made it easier to install tubeless tires. This pump has an integrated aluminum air chamber that stores an air charge of one liter, up to 160psi / 11 bar, to quickly fill your tire and ensure the proper installation on a tubeless...

www.topeak.com

 

[Stefan Mikes]

I can recommend the Joe Blow booster pump - expensive but it certainly feels like a quality item.

Great for tubeless.

JOEBLOW® BOOSTER

Half air compressor – Half pump. The JoeBlow® Booster pump just made it easier to install tubeless tires. This pump has an integrated aluminum air chamber that stores an air charge of one liter, up to 160psi / 11 bar, to quickly fill your tire and ensure the proper installation on a tubeless...

www.topeak.com

Thank you! Will certainly invest in the thing (or, a Schwalbe Tire Booster) before the warm season starts!

 

[Jeremy McCreary]

Being a so-so rider at best, had to slog up the steep stuff in my lowest gears to pull this off. (Really glad I reduced my chainring here.) You and @MartsEbike would probably have averaged a lot faster than 11.5 mph on this route.

I hereby rescind the "so-so" part of that and demote myself to pathetic+.

Just got back from a group ride of 35 mi with 2,230 ft of elevation gain at an average moving speed of 13.5 mph. And I can barely walk.

My fellow riders were mostly over-60 roadies. No problem keeping up on the flats with the SL on OFF, but used a lot of SPORT and Micro Tune in the 40-60% range on the hills and still had a hard time keeping up. Also got out-pedaled on the long descents due to my reduced 40t chainring and semi-upright posture.

Nice bunch of folks, though. Good conversation over coffee and pastries at the finish, and the only one who gave me a hard time about struggling on an ebike was me.

 

[Watana Bob]

Pathetic + ??? I don’t think so Jeremy! I would rate your ride at Animal+ That distance and elevation gain in that timeframe at your age, pure animal status in my book.
i would give my left one to be able to maintain 168 watts on a ride that long.

 

[Jeremy McCreary]

Pathetic + ??? I don’t think so Jeremy! I would rate your ride at Animal+ That distance and elevation gain in that timeframe at your age, pure animal status in my book.
i would give my left one to be able to maintain 168 watts on a ride that long.

Very kind. You're right, of course. I certainly felt "pathetic+" relative to the roadies right after the ride, but my performance could have been a lot worse.

Learned an important lesson about SL tuning from this ride — one I knew I in theory but failed to apply when trying to keep up with much stronger riders.

The mistake: Rode in the default Universal preset out of habit. The tuning format above is the usual E/M, where E is the "ease" setting, and M is the "motor power" in current Specialized-speak.

The lesson: Should have ridden against this bunch in my custom Racing preset instead. This is just the stock Universal preset with all M values bumped to 100.

This Racing preset would have given me access to full motor power (Px = 240W on the SL) in any assist mode. Instead, the Universal preset limited me to at most 0.35 Px in ECO and 0.60 Px in SPORT. That just wasn't enough help on the hills involved.

Too bad, cuz the main battery might well have been enough to use Racing throughout. Next time.

 

[Stefan Mikes]

Very kind. You're right, of course. I certainly felt "pathetic+" relative to the roadies right after the ride, but my performance could have been a lot worse.

Jeremy: Your leg output at age of 73 is over 160 W. Mine is less than 80 W at 63. You should be proud of yourself!

The mistake: Rode in the default Universal preset out of habit. The tuning format above is the usual E/M, where E is the "ease" setting, and M is the "motor power" in current Specialized-speak.

That's what I was trying to tell you and @Ebikelife72. When you are climbing, your body tries to produce more leg output. If your M is set to 100, the motor will dynamically respond to your demand by producing more power exactly when you need it! In such case, the E should be set to reflect the rider's leg power capacity (the stronger the reader, the less E but do not go below 30% really).

The dilemmas of both of you made me check the App settings for ECO, SPORT and TURBO in Battery Friendly, Universal and Racing presets for both my Vado and Vado SL. When I was playing, I inadvertently left the big Vado settings at Racing The first ride this morning was for some groceries. I could not understand why my Vado was that fast and easy to pedal in SPORT! Later, it turned out it was 75/100% for the full power motor!

 

[Ebikelife72]

I rode 22 miles today. It was supposed to be a 52 mile road route but I had to abort due to high winds and heavy traffic making for a pretty dangerous ride. I’ve learned that Eco mode is definitely not providing me any benefit, it just doesn’t give me any noticeable assistance. I rode in Sport and with the motor off and used 30% of the battery with a little over 1000’ of elevation gain. Sport definitely provides noticeable assistance and was nice on the climbs. What is a bit concerning was I believe I heard some strange rattles coming from the motor at times. I only heard the noise while the motor was engaged. I’m going to put it on my bike stand tomorrow to see if I can reproduce the sound.