Specialized Turbo Vado SL: An Incredible E-Bike (User Club)

[Jeremy McCreary]

That's what I was trying to tell you and @Ebikelife72. When you are climbing, your body tries to produce more leg output. If your M is set to 100, the motor will dynamically respond to your demand by producing more power exactly when you need it! In such case, the E should be set to reflect the rider's leg power capacity (the stronger the reader, the less E but do not go below 30% really).

Practical difference between assist modes 60/60 and 60/100 on the SL1?
To see, I used my interactive Specialized PAS model to graph out motor power (Pm) as a function of rider power (Pr) in both modes and compared the graphs.

Graph for 60/60 mode: Rider power (Pr) plots on the x-axis, mechanical power at the crank on the y-axis. The blue plot is motor power (Pm) as a function of Pr. Note its "ramp and flat" structure.

The purple plot is total power at the crank (Pt = Pr + Pm) versus Pr. The red plot, y = Pr, shows the rider's contribution to Pt. For steadily increasing Pr, the blue and purple plots would also reflect Pm and Pt over time.

The orange vertical always marks Prs, the saturation rider power at which Pm "saturates" — i.e., stops increasing with Pr. At any Pr above Prs, any increase in Pt will be due to the rider alone.

The gray vertical marks a particular Pr of interest (Pri). We'll use it to mark Pri = 200W and see how Pm and Pt change there. Note the relative positions of the orange and gray verticals in 60/60 mode. The motor is already saturated at Pri = 200W. But it won't be in 60/100 mode, and the orange-gray arrangement will change to reflect that.

Adjustable model parameters: Px = 240W is the highest mechanical power the SL1's motor can deliver. B = 1.8 is this motor's boost factor. These values are baked into the SL1.

Variables E and M are respectively the ease and (accessible) motor power settings applied as a pair when the rider selects an assist mode like ECO or SPORT. Both run from 0 to 100. In writing 60/60 and 60/100 for our assist modes of interest, we've already been using the accepted E/M shorthand.

The product (E / 100) • B sets the slope of the Pm ramp, while the saturation motor power Ps = (M / 100) • Px sets the height of the Pm flat.

The Pm ramp and flat always meet at the orange vertical marking Prs. In any mode like 60/60 or 35/35 with M = E, Prs = Px / B = 133W. This value is also baked into the SL1.

Now for 60/100 mode
Below I repeated the 60/60 graph and then put the 60/100 graph below it for comparison. Their underlying Px, B, E, and Pri parameters are the same.

Graph for 60/100 mode: Since E and B are unchanged, the Pm ramp has the same slope as before. But the Pm flat is now higher and starts at farther to the right at higher Pr. In fact, Pm and Pt are higher in 60/100 mode than in 60/60 at any Pr above the 60/60 Prs of 133W. This is one major difference between the two modes.

In 60/100 mode, the motor now saturates at Prs = 222W, well beyond the 60/60 Prs of 133W. To get to the Pm flat now, you'll have to work much harder. Our reference Pri of 200W is now just short of saturation.

At any Pr > 222W, Pm will be constant at Ps, and any further increase in Pt will have to come from the rider, as no additional Pm will be forthcoming.

Am I saturated yet?
Easy to tell if you're monitoring Pr on the TCU or in the app: If Pr > 133W on an SL1 in any M = E assist mode, you're already saturated.

To get more Pm once saturated — say, on a hill — you'll have to change to a mode with a higher M and accept the E that comes with it. Micro Tune lets you adjust M in steps of 10 with M = E at each step.

If you're in a mode with M > E, as in 35/70 or 60/100, and can do fractions in your head, your Prs will be (M / E) • 133W. Since modes with M < E are rarely used, this Prs will generally be harder than 133W.

So if M is twice E for any M, as in 35/70, you'll saturate at Prs = 2 • 133W = 266W. If you don't want to work that hard to get all the help the motor will give at your chosen M, find a way to reduce M / E.

This could be a reason to prefer a 35/50 ECO mode over a 35/70. You'd get an easier Prs of 190W and a smaller saturation motor power (lower Pm flat) than in 35/70, but it would also be easier on the battery.

 

[Stefan Mikes]

This could be a reason to prefer a 35/50 ECO mode over a 35/70 — a much easier Prs of 190W. You'd get a smaller saturation motor power (lower Pm flat) than in 35/70, but it would easier to reach and easier on the battery, too.

A very convincing reasoning.

In your calculations, you assume the rider is a strong person (like you or Ebikelife72). Now, look at me. My average leg power for a ride is 60 W or less, I can sustain 100 W when I need it, and can pump up to 290 W uphill. A 100% M serves me well!

 

[Jeremy McCreary]

A very convincing reasoning.

In your calculations, you assume the rider is a strong person (like you or Ebikelife72). Now, look at me. My average leg power for a ride is 60 W or less, I can sustain 100 W when I need it, and can pump up to 290 W uphill. A 100% M serves me well!

No assumptions on my part. Based on the factory tunings I've seen, the Specialized mid-drive PAS appears to have been designed with M >= E assist modes in mind. Modes with M < E appear to be rare in practice.

Outside special situations like starting out, the saturation rider power Prs = (M / E) • ( Px / B). For the Mahle 1.1 SL motor in the SL1 and Creo1, Px = 240W, B = 1.8, and Prs = Px / B = 133W whenever M = E.

Short of setting M < E, this the minimum Prs on the SL1 and Creo1. Since the SL2, Creo2, and full-powered Vado also have minimum Prs values very close to 133W, this would seem to be by design.

With M > E, you have to pedal even harder than 133W to saturate an SL1. To satuate below that, you'd need to set M < E. But then saturation motor power M • Px would also be reduced.

Not sure how to play that trade-off for a rider who can't sustain 133W, but you're living proof that you don't need to saturate an SL1 to get excellent use out of it!

 

[Stefan Mikes]

The E < M setting certainly works for me I could see values >100 W on today's ride because of high assistance and your "Carrot Effect"

The carrots:

• High assistance
• 13% Imperial Stout waiting for me at a brewery
• -4 C outside

 

[Jeremy McCreary]

View attachment 187434
The E < M setting certainly works for me I could see values >100 W on today's ride because of high assistance and your "Carrot Effect"

The carrots:

• High assistance
• 13% Imperial Stout waiting for me at a brewery
• -4 C outside

Based on everything I've read on EBR and the one riding group I've experienced, coffee and pastries seems to be another highly potent and nearly universal carrot. Works for me, but my dentist and internist, not so much.

 

[BlackHand]

My only question is - Do you mount your graphing calculator to the handlebars or does it fit in your pockets?

 

[Jeremy McCreary]

My only question is - Do you mount your graphing calculator to the handlebars or does it fit in your pockets?

It has a heads-up display with over-the-horizon radar. Pricey but sooooo worth it! (If you think Garmin's expensive, try Raytheon.)
;^}

 

[DaDitka]

Sorry if this has already been answered but if you login to your Specialized account - assuming you registered you bike online.

Goto: Account -> Registered Bikes

It will show a picture of your bike, model and serial number and purchase date.
At the bottom there is a link "View Model Details"
This takes you to the technical spec page of you bike.
In my case it is the archive page for the 2022 model year.

View attachment 187016

Thanks. I missed this when you posted it. Been very busy. Just was able to look under the top tube. For those interested, my bike was made in Vietnam in late September 2022.

Where is the other place they are made? Taiwan? Any differences between them based on where they are manufactured?

 

[RRCV]

Is it Tasmania?

No, not Tasmania. Close.

 

[Stefan Mikes]

Thanks. I missed this when you posted it. Been very busy. Just was able to look under the top tube. For those interested, my bike was made in Vietnam in late September 2022.

Where is the other place they are made? Taiwan? Any differences between them based on where they are manufactured?

Specialized e-bikes are primarily manufactured in Taiwan. You should not be worried though. First of all, the e-bike premium components are of a global origin:

• The motor is German
• The battery and electronics are made in China
• The brakes are Taiwanese
• The drivetrain is either Japanese (Shimano) or American (SRAM)
• The frames are welded either in Taiwan or Vietnam
• The design is Swiss

Specialized maintains high quality control standards regardless the place where the e-bike was built. Most importantly, you bought the best warranty in the world with your e-bike!

No, not Tasmania. Close.

Any island? I've checked where it was raining in Australia during the Summer. Not many options! Besides, how does your SL behave? You should turn the motor on once in a while just for its health!

 

[Ebikelife72]

I ended up returning the SL. It was a very nice bike but just provide enough assistance to justify owning it. I guess I’m of the opinion that if I’m going to have an e-bike it probably should be full power. The SL at just above stock Sport setting seemed to provide enough support to eliminate the weight when compared to a normal light fitness style bike. The issue there is that it went through the battery pretty quickly. Turbo definitely assisted more than I’m capable of on my Sirrus, but again went through the battery very fast.

When I returned the SL the shop had a Creo 2 Comp in my size. I could definitely tell the difference between the motors. This tells me that if I want a lighter weight e-bike it will need to be the Vado 2 or Creo 2. I haven’t ridden drop bars that much in quite some time so I don’t want to go ahead and buy a Creo. So instead I bought a 2022 Diverge Sport Carbon for an extremely good price. I’ll ride it for awhile and see how I get on with the drops. I doubt I spring for the carbon Creo but it seems to be a great bike.

 

[Stefan Mikes]

I respect your decision. I only wonder how you think no assistance whatsoever is better that an electrically assisted e-bike
Perhaps you should consider the full power Vado 5.0?

 

[Ebikelife72]

I respect your decision. I only wonder how you think no assistance whatsoever is better that an electrically assisted e-bike
Perhaps you should consider the full power Vado 5.0?

It comes down to the fact that I would need to keep it Sport mode to perform similar to my Sirrus in terms of effort required, which is due to the difference in weight and relatively low powered motor. Being that I like longer rides the battery would deplete for too soon and while it pedals well for an e-bike without assistance, it still isn’t that fun to ride without the motor and nowhere near as easy as the Sirrus. Since I own a Tero X5 and the SL provides a similar performance to my Sirrus, it just doesn’t have a place in my collection. I really like the full power Vado 4 and 5 but again, with already owing the extremely versatile and comfortable Tero X, the big Vado would have no place. I suppose like many I’m looking for a unicorn, a light weight full power e-bike. The Vado 2 looks to be the closest to what I’m looking for and I may go in that direction once the alloy version comes out, if I don’t get a Creo.

 

[BioWheel]

It comes down to the fact that I would need to keep it Sport mode to perform similar to my Sirrus in terms of effort required, which is due to the difference in weight and relatively low powered motor. Being that I like longer rides the battery would deplete for too soon and while it pedals well for an e-bike without assistance, it still isn’t that fun to ride without the motor and nowhere near as easy as the Sirrus. Since I own a Tero X5 and the SL provides a similar performance to my Sirrus, it just doesn’t have a place in my collection. I really like the full power Vado 4 and 5 but again, with already owing the extremely versatile and comfortable Tero X, the big Vado would have no place. I suppose like many I’m looking for a unicorn, a light weight full power e-bike. The Vado 2 looks to be the closest to what I’m looking for and I may go in that direction once the alloy version comes out, if I don’t get a Creo.

I can't fathom factory sport setting not blowing away riding a Sirrus straight-up. I was riding a Cannondale Synapse with flat bar setup(21lbs) and went to an VadoSL (35nm) motor. Night and day (to me) when running Sport even with the C'dale being a lot lighter. Riding E has me feeling pretty young. I guess if I lived in a flat world they'd be more the same. But - biking treats us all differently and good for you Ebikelife. Hope you find that light full-power bike you want. Or maybe go for S-Works Epic World Cup and have your forever bike that's so light you will float down the street.

 

[Ebikelife72]

You guys are making me question my decision I do wonder if there may have been something wrong with the motor. It made intermittent clicking noises while the motor was engaged. Maybe I wasn't getting the full power of that particular motor. I let the guys at the shop know about it. I would've likely just returned the bike as opposed to going through the warranty process. Specialized is great with their warranty, I should know as they had to replace my Tero motor after 12 miles.

 

[Jeremy McCreary]

I can't fathom factory sport setting not blowing away riding a Sirrus straight-up.

Ditto, something's wrong with this picture. Not sure what, though.

Pretty sure @Ebikelife72 is a much stronger rider than I am, and I've never ridden a bike as light and responsive as the Sirrus must be. So our SL experiences would have to be different, but that different?

I do wonder if there may have been something wrong with the motor.

Keep thinking there's a missing piece to this puzzle. Maybe that's it.

 

[Calcoaster]

Ditto, something's wrong with this picture. Not sure what, though.

Pretty sure @Ebikelife72 is a much stronger rider than I am, and I've never ridden a bike as light and responsive as the Sirrus must be. So our SL experiences would have to different, but that different?


Keep thinking there's a missing piece to this puzzle. Maybe that's it.

I agree with you and the others that say a Vado sl in sport mode is a big jump up from a sirrus. I went from an older carbon Roubaix (drop bar road bike) to a Vado sl and the Vado sl in eco mode made the same ride 1-2 mph faster. Then I switched to a creo and tuned eco down to 20/35 and beat my Vado times. From my experience a Vado sl in sport mode will blow away any non powered bike with the same level of exertion. Eco mode probably would as well but to a lesser extent. Now I ride a BMC with the TQ motor and am enjoying the silence - a big change from the SL motors.

 

[Ebikelife72]

The more I consider it, the more I believe there was something not right about the motor. It absolutely felt like it introduced drag while in Eco mode, like it was slightly harder to pedal. That's a shame because I otherwise really liked the bike. If Specialized offers another 50% off deal maybe I'll give it another try.

 

[Stefan Mikes]

I totally forgot you owned a Tero X, @Ebikelife72!
Perhaps the perception of how strong a motor should be made you a little biased? Or, you indeed owned a lemon!

 

[Ebikelife72]

I totally forgot you owned a Tero X, @Ebikelife72!
Perhaps the perception of how strong a motor should be made you a little biased? Or, you indeed owned a lemon!

Perhaps there’s some bias but I’ve owned many e-bikes and have ridden many more. The Tero X is excellent. I actually ride it with the motor off, as well. The furthest I’ve ridden it without assistance was 35 miles. It was a pretty leisurely ride on pretty flat ground with an average speed of 13mph. It was actually pretty easy, just slow. But I’d much rather ride it without the motor the motor on, usually in a detuned Eco mode.