Allan47.7339
Well-Known Member
You can play with the app by inserting slightly shorter/longer measurements to see if you are actually close to the boundary between sizes and to see what the effect of any inaccuracy in your measurements may be.
Specialized Turbo Vado SL: An Incredible E-Bike (User Club)
- Thread starter Stefan Mikes
- Start date
Rider51
Member
- Region
- USA
Having test ridden quite a few of these, you may be surprised that you cannot feel much difference between the L and XL if you are within range. Unless you're very specific in your needs and desires. There's also wiggle room with the stem size, even saddle adjustments, that are fairly macro if you're between sizes.
As to the mudguards/fenders. I would buy the EQ version if it's wet where you are. Full stop. Stefan is right if you're ridding gravel, or it's dry (or you have a dry season) that you won't want them on there. The front is easy to remove, the rear, not so much, because of the light. However, you can take it to any bike shop, it doesn't even have to be a Specialized dealer, and they'll take it off for you.
As a side note to this, many fenders, like racks, will fit most bikes. But bike mechanics cringe when these are barely compatible, as they may have to find new parts, screws, adapters, etc. However, the fenders and racks that came on the bike, no matter how complex it may seem, they don't blink at working with. So, what may seem like a real pain in the rear job to you - taking the rear guard and rack off the bike it came on - isn't that hard in the scheme of things for them, as everything is compatible, and will match. Cost may be $30 or so, and take a few hours, at most.
Agree you're going to want the rack and fenders off if riding gravel. There's no question. You'll also want gravel tires. Specialized Pathfinder Pro, Continental Terra Speed, Maxis Rambler TR, etc. You're also going to want to run tubeless if at all possible. The wheels/rims on a 5.0 are tubeless ready. The 4.0 they are not.
As to the mudguards/fenders. I would buy the EQ version if it's wet where you are. Full stop. Stefan is right if you're ridding gravel, or it's dry (or you have a dry season) that you won't want them on there. The front is easy to remove, the rear, not so much, because of the light. However, you can take it to any bike shop, it doesn't even have to be a Specialized dealer, and they'll take it off for you.
As a side note to this, many fenders, like racks, will fit most bikes. But bike mechanics cringe when these are barely compatible, as they may have to find new parts, screws, adapters, etc. However, the fenders and racks that came on the bike, no matter how complex it may seem, they don't blink at working with. So, what may seem like a real pain in the rear job to you - taking the rear guard and rack off the bike it came on - isn't that hard in the scheme of things for them, as everything is compatible, and will match. Cost may be $30 or so, and take a few hours, at most.
Agree you're going to want the rack and fenders off if riding gravel. There's no question. You'll also want gravel tires. Specialized Pathfinder Pro, Continental Terra Speed, Maxis Rambler TR, etc. You're also going to want to run tubeless if at all possible. The wheels/rims on a 5.0 are tubeless ready. The 4.0 they are not.
fatshark
Active Member
- Region
- United Kingdom
- City
- The Howling Wildernes
Thanks @Rider51 ... I'd hardly define myself as having "very specific" needs but I'd prefer not to end up with something that feels a bit wrong. They're currently like hen's teeth here and so there's no chance of a test ride ... unless I wait to spring, which is probably what I'll end up doing. Not least because of the other point you make. It is wet here, so the comment about the 'fenders' was useful. I have no intention of riding off road as there are no tracks that could be considered passable with my legs and without a (motorised!) quad bike.
I'm closing in on 1,000 miles on myTurbo Vado SL5 EQ and have some random thoughts. I purchased last December and after only 140 miles, ended up in hospital in January for 4th aortic valve replacement, being discharged in Late April. I started riding again in June. Thank goodness for this e-bike. My first time back on the Vado was shakey at best, as I had to work to keep my balance and absolutely not clip in. By August I was much stronger using Turbo mode only for serious hills. I began again, riding in 'off' or Eco for most of the time to get back in shape. I still found I could burn through 15-20% battery in Turbo mode on some of the very long 500-750 1-2 mille climbs up the many PA mountains. And a big shout out to BLEVO for having the battery and motor temp options. I didn't realize how hot the motor can get on a hot August day during a 750' climb in turbo mode - Definitely worth it to keep an eye on the motor temps if you use Turbo on mountains.
The only mods I did were to remove the front fender, add SPD pedals, add Iphone holder to run BLEVO and add an extra handlebar light for those 4:30 AM rides. In my travels, I've met some with the larger fatwheel Himiway style ebikes and after discussions, realized as a longtime biker, I made the right decision with the Specialized bike. Those 70lb Bafang Motor bikes can be a real nightmare if you end up with a power problem. Very difficult, if not impossible to pedal. Very difficult to transport to an LBS if they need serious wrenching too.
....So back to the Turbo Vado. I put my front fender back on in mid-September to protect the motor housing from wet roads and immediately noticed a most annoying issue. Where I live there are many black walnut trees - thousands of them line roads and trails, all dropping nuts and stems in the fall that get smashedby autos and create a sticky mess on the roadways. With the stock, stickier SL tires, I noticed when passing under these areas with many trees, I was picking up the small stems and leaves that would be thrown up and caught under the long front fender, spin up into the fender a bit and stay caught between the tire and fender creating a loud buzzing. I had hoped turning the wheel a bit or speeding up would cause the leaves to kick out, but to no avail. It requires stopping and digging them out with a screwdriver or narrow tire iron. Solution, I remeoved the nylon poly extensin tail off both fenders andd that seemed to help quite a bit. I am looking forward to removing the front fender again next spring.
And one final complaint - The rear racktime rack. Who designed this? I never needed a rear fender in wet season, because my old solid racks protected my back. Racktime Racks are open and therefore one still needs a rear fender to avoid a mudstripe on their backside. In addition, none of my old panniers fit and I think for long trips i may need to get new gear. {...sigh...} Otherwise, love the bike
The only mods I did were to remove the front fender, add SPD pedals, add Iphone holder to run BLEVO and add an extra handlebar light for those 4:30 AM rides. In my travels, I've met some with the larger fatwheel Himiway style ebikes and after discussions, realized as a longtime biker, I made the right decision with the Specialized bike. Those 70lb Bafang Motor bikes can be a real nightmare if you end up with a power problem. Very difficult, if not impossible to pedal. Very difficult to transport to an LBS if they need serious wrenching too.
....So back to the Turbo Vado. I put my front fender back on in mid-September to protect the motor housing from wet roads and immediately noticed a most annoying issue. Where I live there are many black walnut trees - thousands of them line roads and trails, all dropping nuts and stems in the fall that get smashedby autos and create a sticky mess on the roadways. With the stock, stickier SL tires, I noticed when passing under these areas with many trees, I was picking up the small stems and leaves that would be thrown up and caught under the long front fender, spin up into the fender a bit and stay caught between the tire and fender creating a loud buzzing. I had hoped turning the wheel a bit or speeding up would cause the leaves to kick out, but to no avail. It requires stopping and digging them out with a screwdriver or narrow tire iron. Solution, I remeoved the nylon poly extensin tail off both fenders andd that seemed to help quite a bit. I am looking forward to removing the front fender again next spring.
And one final complaint - The rear racktime rack. Who designed this? I never needed a rear fender in wet season, because my old solid racks protected my back. Racktime Racks are open and therefore one still needs a rear fender to avoid a mudstripe on their backside. In addition, none of my old panniers fit and I think for long trips i may need to get new gear. {...sigh...} Otherwise, love the bike
Last edited:
Stefan Mikes
Gravel e-biker
- Region
- Europe
- City
- Mazovia, PL
Your observations are true and interesting. Regarding the rear rack and fender, I have always appreciated them on my full power, fully equipped Vado 5.0. I started with Ortlieb panniers early and have never experienced issues with either the rack or the rear fender. However, I should have protected the rack rails against being rubbed by the pannier hooks. As soon as I bought my Vado SL EQ, I used a lot of strong and soft tape to make my panniers "stick" to the rack without any chance of rubbing the paint off....So back to the Turbo Vado. I put my front fender back on in mid-September to protect the motor housing from wet roads and immediately noticed a most annoying issue. Where I live there are many black walnut trees - thousands of them line roads and trails, all dropping nuts and small twigs branches in the fall that get smashedby autos and create a sticky mess on the roadways. With the stock, stickier SL tires, I noticed when passing under these areas with many trees, I was picking up small branches and leaves that would be thrown up and caught under the long front fender and spin up a bit stay caught between the tire and fender creating a loud buzzing. I had hoped turning the wheel a bit or speeding up would cause the leaves to kick out, but to no avail. It requires stopping and diggin them our with a screwdriver or narrow tire iron. Solution, I remeoved the nylon poly extensin tail off both fenders andd that seemed to help quite a bit. I am looking frward to removign the front fender again next spring.
And one final complaint - The rear racktime rack. Who designed this. I never needed a rear fender in wet season, becuase my old solid racks protected my back. Racktime Racks are open and therefore one still needs a rear fender to avoid a mudstripe. In addition, none of my old panniers fit and i think for long trips i may need to get new gear. {...sigh...} Otherwise, love the bike
The long mudflap of the Drytech front fender has always been problematic. Yes, it protects the motor cover ideally but issues you have described are painfully known to me. With the "big" Vado, I have never had any issues of blocking the front wheel with twigs but the mudflap was a pain for transporting my e-bike inside the car, for instance. Eventually, the mudflap fell off and there are no issues anymore except the motor cover getting dirty.
With Vado SL, the issue of blocking the front wheel by sprigs, leaves etc is really a design flaw. I think of removing the front fender for the coming Spring and replacing it with some sort of MTB "blade" fender. Otherwise, riding in the woods would be very unpleasant, exactly for the reasons you have listed.
I am providing this information for anybody that may be considering investing in this model because I recently took the plunge and I figure those interested can sift through the data to find info helpful or applicable to them.
I am 58, 6’4” and weigh 215#. I have been riding bicycles for a long time, and still ride quite a bit. Mostly mountain biking and I try to get to a pretty good level of cycling fitness every year (I live in an area with winter so mtn biking is seasonal).
I bought this bike to commute to my work and back as often as practical. My goal is 2 – 3 times a week. I have commuted to work on a bike for years. But until recently my commutes were in the range of 5-7 miles each way. A few years ago I changed jobs and now my commute is 21-25 miles each way depending on the route. Fortunately, 15 miles of this is along a bike path. I had been taking the train down in the mornings and riding back in the evenings for the last few years. But recently I got to thinking that if I had e-assistance I might be able to ride both ways, shaving enough time off my commute to make it reasonable and taking better advantage of being mostly linked between home and work by a bike path.
Ok, enough background. About the bike and my experience. The bike is AWESOME. It is well designed and the geometry makes it a very fun and sporty bike to ride. Having the ride be fun is great because it will help keep me motivated to ride it to and from my work. This bike is very, very fun to ride and handles great.
I have panniers – Ortlieb back city roller classics. They work great with the EQ equipped rack. I upgraded to these bags from an old set of Novarras. The bike path is pretty lumpy in spots and the Novarras would sometime fly off the rack! The Ortliebs are the bomb and a great upgrade. I carry probably 20 – 30#s in the bags between work clothes and shoes, lunch, a liter of liquid drink, a laptop, tools, tubes, various cycling clothes to account for the cold in the morning, warm in the evening conditions. So it’s a heavy set up – but the bike rides great and I don’t notice the bags or the load at all. This is really the testament to how good this bike is. Even fully loaded, big person and heavy bags, this bike is a cruise and I do not feel the load and it doesn’t diminish the sporty, fun quality of the ride.
On my previous commuter – an Italian steel road bike forced reluctantly into commuting service - it would take me between 1:45 in ideal conditions and 1:55 more often to ride the 21 mile route. I have a pretty good and sustained climb at the end and getting through the urban leg of the journey was painfully long. With the Vado I do the same route in about 1:15 to 1:20. So you can do the avg. speed I get. I would love to shave more time off my pervious non e-bike time, but I don’t think that’s realistic.
I use turbo to get through the urban sections of the ride – the city at the start and the end of my commute between my neighborhood and the bike path. And I use turbo to get up the hills getting to my home. I am on the middle/sport level of assist the rest of the time. That level is plenty to go as fast I want or would like to on the bike path and I don’t feel like I am working hard, but I am definitely pedaling and not free wheeling along. Going to work which is downhill to start I have about 5 battery life indicator bars left, sometimes 4. Coming back I have about 3 bars left. So I charge at work for the ride back, which means I transport the charger – part of the weight in my bags.
If you are going to ride at night in unlighted areas you’ll need a much stronger headlight. This bike lets you reach speeds very easily that are too fast for the amount of light that the stock headlight throws. Not a big deal – having the right lights is something that everyone has to customize for their use.
I’ve read the back and forth on the fenders. If you are a commuter you know the blessing of a good set of fenders that stay in place and do their job. These fenders are great for that purpose. Yes there is the path debris that gets picked up and rubbed through/between tire and fender, but in my experience not significantly more than any other set of fenders, and frankly these work quite well. I always have fenders on my commuters.
In summary I am extremely happy with the bike and hope that things continue as they have started. I didn’t do a lot of test riding e-bikes before I went for this one. I rode a couple – mostly rentals, and I knew I didn’t want a big heavy e-moped type bike. Though very fun and they would make sense for the commute I am doing, I wanted to get more exercise from my commute than I would get by using something like the full Vado 4.0. I also wasn’t sure about committing to such a big vehicle, both for where to put it and for handling. The Vado SL level of e-assist is very good for my needs. There’s no way I could do 42-50 miles a day with the kind of weight I carry on my old bike for any extended period. It’s also very nice to have the e-assist in case of rough conditions like nasty headwinds heading home. All in all – I am super happy with this bike and best of luck to anyone considering taking the plunge!
I am 58, 6’4” and weigh 215#. I have been riding bicycles for a long time, and still ride quite a bit. Mostly mountain biking and I try to get to a pretty good level of cycling fitness every year (I live in an area with winter so mtn biking is seasonal).
I bought this bike to commute to my work and back as often as practical. My goal is 2 – 3 times a week. I have commuted to work on a bike for years. But until recently my commutes were in the range of 5-7 miles each way. A few years ago I changed jobs and now my commute is 21-25 miles each way depending on the route. Fortunately, 15 miles of this is along a bike path. I had been taking the train down in the mornings and riding back in the evenings for the last few years. But recently I got to thinking that if I had e-assistance I might be able to ride both ways, shaving enough time off my commute to make it reasonable and taking better advantage of being mostly linked between home and work by a bike path.
Ok, enough background. About the bike and my experience. The bike is AWESOME. It is well designed and the geometry makes it a very fun and sporty bike to ride. Having the ride be fun is great because it will help keep me motivated to ride it to and from my work. This bike is very, very fun to ride and handles great.
I have panniers – Ortlieb back city roller classics. They work great with the EQ equipped rack. I upgraded to these bags from an old set of Novarras. The bike path is pretty lumpy in spots and the Novarras would sometime fly off the rack! The Ortliebs are the bomb and a great upgrade. I carry probably 20 – 30#s in the bags between work clothes and shoes, lunch, a liter of liquid drink, a laptop, tools, tubes, various cycling clothes to account for the cold in the morning, warm in the evening conditions. So it’s a heavy set up – but the bike rides great and I don’t notice the bags or the load at all. This is really the testament to how good this bike is. Even fully loaded, big person and heavy bags, this bike is a cruise and I do not feel the load and it doesn’t diminish the sporty, fun quality of the ride.
On my previous commuter – an Italian steel road bike forced reluctantly into commuting service - it would take me between 1:45 in ideal conditions and 1:55 more often to ride the 21 mile route. I have a pretty good and sustained climb at the end and getting through the urban leg of the journey was painfully long. With the Vado I do the same route in about 1:15 to 1:20. So you can do the avg. speed I get. I would love to shave more time off my pervious non e-bike time, but I don’t think that’s realistic.
I use turbo to get through the urban sections of the ride – the city at the start and the end of my commute between my neighborhood and the bike path. And I use turbo to get up the hills getting to my home. I am on the middle/sport level of assist the rest of the time. That level is plenty to go as fast I want or would like to on the bike path and I don’t feel like I am working hard, but I am definitely pedaling and not free wheeling along. Going to work which is downhill to start I have about 5 battery life indicator bars left, sometimes 4. Coming back I have about 3 bars left. So I charge at work for the ride back, which means I transport the charger – part of the weight in my bags.
If you are going to ride at night in unlighted areas you’ll need a much stronger headlight. This bike lets you reach speeds very easily that are too fast for the amount of light that the stock headlight throws. Not a big deal – having the right lights is something that everyone has to customize for their use.
I’ve read the back and forth on the fenders. If you are a commuter you know the blessing of a good set of fenders that stay in place and do their job. These fenders are great for that purpose. Yes there is the path debris that gets picked up and rubbed through/between tire and fender, but in my experience not significantly more than any other set of fenders, and frankly these work quite well. I always have fenders on my commuters.
In summary I am extremely happy with the bike and hope that things continue as they have started. I didn’t do a lot of test riding e-bikes before I went for this one. I rode a couple – mostly rentals, and I knew I didn’t want a big heavy e-moped type bike. Though very fun and they would make sense for the commute I am doing, I wanted to get more exercise from my commute than I would get by using something like the full Vado 4.0. I also wasn’t sure about committing to such a big vehicle, both for where to put it and for handling. The Vado SL level of e-assist is very good for my needs. There’s no way I could do 42-50 miles a day with the kind of weight I carry on my old bike for any extended period. It’s also very nice to have the e-assist in case of rough conditions like nasty headwinds heading home. All in all – I am super happy with this bike and best of luck to anyone considering taking the plunge!
Allan47.7339
Well-Known Member
There is a noticeable difference lighting difference between the Vado SL 4.0EQ and Vado SL 5.0EQ headlights. It's an easy upgrade but you need to order the Specialized OEM part because of the upside down mount.
Vado SL 4.0EQ:
Lezyne Ebike Hecto STVZO E65, 210Lumens, 12V
S205800001 LGT MY20 VADO SL 4.0 EQ LEZYNE FRONT LIGHT, HECTO, 1-E001-HCTST-V17WRSP
Vado SL 5.0EQ:
Lezyne Ebike Power STVZO E115, 310Lumens, 12V
S205800002 LGT MY20 VADO SL 5.0 EQ LEZYNE FRONT LIGHT, POWER, 1-E001-PWRST-V17RU
Vado SL 4.0EQ:
Lezyne Ebike Hecto STVZO E65, 210Lumens, 12V
S205800001 LGT MY20 VADO SL 4.0 EQ LEZYNE FRONT LIGHT, HECTO, 1-E001-HCTST-V17WRSP
Vado SL 5.0EQ:
Lezyne Ebike Power STVZO E115, 310Lumens, 12V
S205800002 LGT MY20 VADO SL 5.0 EQ LEZYNE FRONT LIGHT, POWER, 1-E001-PWRST-V17RU
rochrunner
Well-Known Member
- Region
- USA
- City
- Rochester Hills MI
I've been ready to get one for the better part of a year, but so far no SL 5.0 has been available to me locally. This may change since the closest dealer has recently been bought out by Specialized, making for more of a direct dealing (especially with getting accurate information!). If the factory buyout does nothing more than improve this place's attitude and customer service, it will be worth it!
Rider51
Member
- Region
- USA
What a great post! Thanks so much for sharing with us.
specialized_dc
New Member
- Region
- Europe
I'd like to ask a question here before I start hassling my local dealer about this issue. I have a 2021 Vado 4.0 SL EQ. I have noticed that when turning off the assist that there is a huge amount of resistance. It feels the same to me as if when your brake pads touch the rim on an old crappy bike. It's really hard to ascertain whether this is an "illusion" due to me pedalling 99% of the time with assist or an actual issue with the bike. There have been a couple of times where I've turned off assist and it's not felt like this. I do have a fairly cheap old (non-ebike) bike that I ride now and then to areas where I can't lock up securely and I don't notice this at all.
Allan47.7339
Well-Known Member
There should be very little drag when the power is off or in the OFF mode. It think there is slightly less when the bike is on but in the OFF mode but that may just be my perception. I usually ride my Vado SL or Creo with the mode off. Try starting a ride with the mode OFF and then compare. I found that it was easier to start in the OFF mode and then use assist only when necessary instead of starting in ECO and then going to OFF.
Stefan Mikes
Gravel e-biker
- Region
- Europe
- City
- Mazovia, PL
It is an illusion caused by actually huge support the motor gives you, compared to riding unassisted. Please do these experiments:
- Raise the front of the e-bike, turn the wheel. It should spin freely for a long time
- Ditto, with the rear wheel
- Remove the chain from the chainring and rotate the cranks with your hand: power off, then OFF mode. You should feel no resistance whatsoever.
I found that if riding uphill with assist on, when I reached the brow of the hill and switched off assistance suddenly it felt like I was loaded down with full panniers. Heavy drag in other words. I realised after a while that the road was still going uphill and hadn’t fully flattened and I was experiencing gravity and weight of bike after being assisted greatly.
I’d say if you experience this on the flats or downhill you might have a motor problem but if it’s just gravity & the difference of having that helpful assistance then nothing at all, then you’ll get used to that very soon.
BioWheel
Well-Known Member
- Region
- USA
Do you have a link to the part on the Spec website? I can't find it.
Wow Jsnowut, many kudos to you. That’s an amazing commute, very impressive.
Pretty bike and set up. That bright white is very striking.
These are my standard ideas for accessories to think about, mostly for safety and comfort.
- A mirror. Really helps to see what’s coming behind you. I have Mirrcyles but of course other brands available.
- Plenty of bright lights, even in the daytime. Lots of distracted drivers out there so it’s best to be seen.
- Suspension seatpost. Really helps with comfort, especially if roads are rough and poorly repaired like my area.
Looking forward to seeing your adventures.
Allan47.7339
Well-Known Member
This is the link to the support pages. Drill down to the specific model and there should be a page link in "Service and Maintenance" with either a "Replacement Parts" or "Original Parts" heading. Some models will also have a separate link for older versions. They are not consistent across models as to what parts they show. The dealers have access to the complete listings but it saves time if you can go in with a part number for them to look up.
How can we help?
support.specialized.com
Rider51
Member
- Region
- USA
If you're okay charging your own lights (e.g. not run off the internal battery, which if I may say, is such an awesome idea on it's own), this is my personal favorite:
Light and Motion Combo
Not cheap, but it works extremely well. Very bright, several features, weatherproof, easy to use.
Light and Motion Combo
Not cheap, but it works extremely well. Very bright, several features, weatherproof, easy to use.
Stefan Mikes
Gravel e-biker
- Region
- Europe
- City
- Mazovia, PL
@Calcoaster (and other users who recommended the SQlab Innerbarends 411 to me):
I apologize very much for my earlier bitching. I am aware I could offend some of you and am very sorry for it.
In true gravel cycling situation, the Innerbarends turned out to be very useful grips, closely mimicking hoods of a road bike drop handlebar. I spent most of my Sunday's gravel cycling ride holding the Innerbarends, and I could appreciate their value.
So, sorry for being nasty and big THANK YOU for the recommendation!
I apologize very much for my earlier bitching. I am aware I could offend some of you and am very sorry for it.
In true gravel cycling situation, the Innerbarends turned out to be very useful grips, closely mimicking hoods of a road bike drop handlebar. I spent most of my Sunday's gravel cycling ride holding the Innerbarends, and I could appreciate their value.
So, sorry for being nasty and big THANK YOU for the recommendation!
Calcoaster
Active Member
- Region
- USA
Stefan, I’m glad the SQ bars work for you! When I first installed them I had the same thoughts that you did. Luckily, I found them to work for me too, especially into a headwind when I’m trying to keep up with a faster road rider.
Is there anyone here who owns Vado SL AND Creo or has at least done quiet a few miles on both?
I've ridden only a few miles on Vado SL on a test ride and even less on the Vado SL of my wife, that is to small for me.
We have a new comment of a new Vado SL owner in our german ebike forum who complains that his Vado SL is so tough (is this the right expression?) to ride compared to non-ebikes. He can feel the resistance of the motor/the gearing inside (he's not complanining about the weight).
I only know my Creo well and for the Creo this is totally untrue. I did some tours with quite some height meters as well with the Creo without any motor support and with my "organic" gravel bike with 10-11 lbs less. And it felt almost the same for me, it did not feel slower or harder. I did not measure average speed, time or used leg power exactly, surely there will be a small difference due to weight. But the resistance of motor/gearing??? The losses here are somewehere in the per thousand region. Is "our" user dreaming or comparing his Vado with a race bike? Or did he never try a heavy normal ebike without motor? Or does the Vado SL really have more resistance compared to an "organic" city/trekkinig bike than the Creo to an organic race bike? As the extra weight for the elctric drive is the same for Creo und Vado SL, normally the Creo should feel more sluggish as the percentage of overweight to a similar oragnic bike is much higher than the Vado SL's.
But I've heard similar complaints for most ebike drives and Bosch motors. And even if the losses in gearing here may be higher than in the small SL motor, they were never really important for me with several ebikes before SL. In gearing, these bikes are still terrible to ride without motor due to their weight...
I've ridden only a few miles on Vado SL on a test ride and even less on the Vado SL of my wife, that is to small for me.
We have a new comment of a new Vado SL owner in our german ebike forum who complains that his Vado SL is so tough (is this the right expression?) to ride compared to non-ebikes. He can feel the resistance of the motor/the gearing inside (he's not complanining about the weight).
I only know my Creo well and for the Creo this is totally untrue. I did some tours with quite some height meters as well with the Creo without any motor support and with my "organic" gravel bike with 10-11 lbs less. And it felt almost the same for me, it did not feel slower or harder. I did not measure average speed, time or used leg power exactly, surely there will be a small difference due to weight. But the resistance of motor/gearing??? The losses here are somewehere in the per thousand region. Is "our" user dreaming or comparing his Vado with a race bike? Or did he never try a heavy normal ebike without motor? Or does the Vado SL really have more resistance compared to an "organic" city/trekkinig bike than the Creo to an organic race bike? As the extra weight for the elctric drive is the same for Creo und Vado SL, normally the Creo should feel more sluggish as the percentage of overweight to a similar oragnic bike is much higher than the Vado SL's.
But I've heard similar complaints for most ebike drives and Bosch motors. And even if the losses in gearing here may be higher than in the small SL motor, they were never really important for me with several ebikes before SL. In gearing, these bikes are still terrible to ride without motor due to their weight...
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