Specialized Turbo Vado/Como/Tero/Tero X User Club

[Art Deco]

Got it. The torque specs I've found put the Yamaha at 80Nm max and the Brose at 90Nm max, depending on motor model number. Here's some references that pop up when I Google motor torque by brand;

Yamaha answers Brose and Bosch's new mid-drive e-bike motors with its own powerhouse

On the heels of big announcements for new motors and battery systems from both Bosch and Brose, Yamaha has just...

electrek.co

Brose S motors — ElectriCityBikes

The S motor line is at the very front of the big dog pack - dramatically peppier than most competing systems, with 15% more power than the already strong Brose T . Pushing 90nm of torque and 550 (560 for the Mag version) peak watts, and applied with the signature Brose smooth/natural feeling and lo

www.electricitybikes.com

These graphs of torque output for the Brose motor are also available online;

View attachment 53256

View attachment 53257

Bike gearing will certainly change how the bike feels.

Srephen, are you familiar with the US expression TMI ? It means Too Much Information. Engineers often suffer from it ....

 

[Sierratim]

Srephen, are you familiar with the US expression TMI ? It means Too Much Information. Engineers often suffer from it ....

Guilty as charged..

 

[Art Deco]

Srephen, are you familiar with the US expression TMI ? It means Too Much Information. Engineers often suffer from it ....

Sorry wrong name SerriaTim is who I was replying to.And if you weren't an engineer of some sort, you might of missed your calling.

 

[Sierratim]

Sorry wrong name SerriaTim is who I was replying to.And if you weren't an engineer of some sort, you might of missed your calling.

Seems that our whole family is engineers; sons, daughter, wife, brother, daughter-in-law, ... even me. It's not uncommon to take on a math challenge after a family dinner.... I know, geeks, but somebody has to do it or nothing gets built!

 

[Art Deco]

Sorry wrong name SerriaTim is who I was replying to.And if you weren't an engineer of some sort, you might of missed your calling.

And gearing certainly matters. Advantage of derailler over IGH is wider range available, of course. The Momentum was only a 7 speed vs 9 in the Como. But these are picky things, I am more rationalizing an emotional decision than really reasoning , I'm sure.

 

[Art Deco]

And gearing certainly matters. Advantage of derailler over IGH is wider range available, of course. The Momentum was only a 7 speed vs 9 in the Como. But these are picky things, I am more rationalizing an emotional decision than really reasoning , I'm sure.

On engineering ... I wrote software for 20 years, my wife is a professor of accounting (even worse), my daughter just finished a PHD in civil engineering, and would often say "This is NOT a normal conversation " at supper. Yep, lots of TMI.

 

[Art Deco]

So to get back to bikes, what the current advice on pairing my samsung android phone with the new Como 3s? Worthwhile or just becoming an unpaid beta tester for Specialized?

 

[Stefan Mikes]

Tim, while all we agree on the higher torque of the Brose motor, my personal feeling is the Yamaha PW-X2 can deliver far much power in short burst than the Brose TF in my Vado. No hard data available but I rode up a 45+ degree concrete slab with my Trance and the rear wheel almost sent me flying... Never experienced such a feeling with my Vado that has the Brose TF.

 

[Stefan Mikes]

So to get back to bikes, what the current advice on pairing my samsung android phone with the new Como 3s? Worthwhile or just becoming an unpaid beta tester for Specialized?

Mission Control should work fine and it is good software!

 

[Art Deco]

Mission Control should work fine and it is good software!

Thanks Stefan. I got the right name this time! The lbs where I live is in Amish country ... horse and buggy, and bikes are transportation not toys ... and they know nothing about smart phones or software ... a tool of the devil would be a typical reaction. When I look at Facebook I tend to agree.

 

[TMH]

I think it gets dismissed a little bit (or just maybe not thought about too much), but so much of the power feeling of the torque of a motor system is dependent on the overall efficiency of the bicycle.

Maybe not an apples-to-apples comparison since Specialized has its own tune for the Brose motor in the Vado 4.0 (and allows a further level of tuning by the user through the Mission Control app) but the 'same' Brose motor seems even more powerful in my Tamland iE as compared to the Vado. And both seem to blow the same Brose motor in my BH Lynx 6 27.5 out of the water.

And I've found the same to be true of the 'same' Bosch motor in different bikes as well.

 

[Art Deco]

I think it gets dismissed a little bit (or just maybe not thought about too much), but so much of the power feeling of the torque of a motor system is dependent on the overall efficiency of the bicycle.

Maybe not an apples-to-apples comparison since Specialized has its own tune for the Brose motor in the Vado 4.0 (and allows a further level of tuning by the user through the Mission Control app) but the 'same' Brose motor seems even more powerful in my Tamland iE as compared to the Vado. And both seem to blow the same Brose motor in my BH Lynx 6 27.5 out of the water.

And I've found the same to be true of the 'same' Bosch motor in different bikes as well.

Different controllers and different software tuning will do that...

 

[TMH]

Different controllers and different software tuning will do that...

Yeah, I knew that I probably shouldn't be getting into such a discussion with engineers. I'm just schooled as a lowly biologist/chemist so I don't even get to wear any of those special engineer hats!

But I do personally wonder (especially within the Bosch world) how much that applies. I know that the Brose is apparently a much more open system, where end-users (e-bike manufacturers) are encouraged to mix-and-match components to their custom needs. But I was also under the impression that the Bosch system is more locked-down, where the system (maybe other than the display) is provided to end-users more as a finished package, take it or leave it as is.

 

[Art Deco]

Yeah, I knew that I probably shouldn't be getting into such a discussion with engineers. I'm just schooled as a lowly biologist/chemist so I don't even get to wear any of those special engineer hats!

I am a lowly programmer . For biology see ...

DNA

xkcd.com

 

[Art Deco]

Having trouble posting from tablet .... d!.?m programmers anyway.

 

[Sierratim]

Tim, while all we agree on the higher torque of the Brose motor, my personal feeling is the Yamaha PW-X2 can deliver far much power in short burst than the Brose TF in my Vado. No hard data available but I rode up a 45+ degree concrete slab with my Trance and the rear wheel almost sent me flying... Never experienced such a feeling with my Vado that has the Brose TF.

Might that be largely the more aggressive gearing on the Trance, i.e. smaller chain ring?

 

[Stefan Mikes]

Hmm... I felt the mighty pull of the motor...

 

[Sierratim]

Hmm... I felt the mighty pull of the motor...

And your now very impressive quads, so I hear!

The magic of software is at play here as well, the Trance being tuned for hill climbing, the Vado for streets. As ,ong as they meet the rider's expectations it all works out.

 

[Saratoga Dave]

That sounds like a hell of a lot of fun, Stefan! I gotta go try one of these out.

 

[Deacon Blues]

Any Vado or Como riders living in Canada, who wants motor assistance at a higher speed than 32kph, might find this video interesting: