Specialized Turbo Vado/Como/Tero/Tero X User Club

[Sierratim]

You might want to measure the seatpost diameter to be sure. Our como 4.0's seatpost diameter is larger than 27.2mm; the website lists the Vado's and the como 2.0 at 30.9, which is almost exactly what I get when I measure ours (somewhere between 1 3/16 and 1 1/4"). I've been swapping some 27.2mm (approximately 1 1/16") seatposts around the last couple of days on other bikes so I'm pretty sure I'm correct and the website is wrong - at least for our new como 4.0 (manufacture date in January of this year). As for seatposts, a lot of folks like the suntour at the price point of the thudbuster, but I'm also trying to decide on one.

I agree. It's best to confirm based on Dr. V's measurements. The Specialized site has been know to have other errors as well. Calipers make this easy. If they aren't available just pull the seat post and measure the diameter of the post with a ruler, metric is easiest.

 

[Stefan Mikes]

Calipers make this easy.

Due to machining tolerances, the diameter doesn't need to be 30.9 mm sharp. What really matters is 30.9 mm nominal.

 

[TMH]

I’m thinking of getting the thudbuster st seatpost. Looks like the size is 27.2. Is there a reason to get the newest 4th generation over the third generation?

Confirmed that seat post diameter on my bike is also 30.9.

Main differences between the 2 generations of Thudbuster ST:

Newer model has a higher weight carrying capacity, if you need that, and it also allows faster, tool-free revisions of the elastomer. Older model requires you to remove 2 screws and side plates to change the elastomer.

 

[Katysax]

Thanks. Sometimes I miss the obvious. Measured the post with a caliper and it is indeed 30.9. Glad I checked here before ordering.

 

[Marcela]

I've had the Thudbuster slip because of the smooth finish, if you need a stronger seat post clamp the 35mm is the one to have. I have the LT, you don't have to remove the side plates to remove/replace the elastomers, just the skewer bolt.

 

[rochrunner]

The British author Terry Pratchett wrote a novel "The Last Continent" in his Discworld series. The novel is written in the Australian English. I had a hard time to read it. Then I got the Polish edition. The Polish translator wrote a preface explaining many things about the Australian references in the book. So I found a Web site explaining the language of Ozzies. Repeated reading of "The Last Continent" became so easy!

We've watched a number of Australian shows using our free access to Acorn TV and find that, even with subtitles, we have a hard time figuring out what they're talking about much of the time!

 

[Marcela]

This is from the emtb forum. Came from someone who rep'd Specialized. Thought it was useful so here goes. Here is the link to the full thread also.

Mission Control - Understanding Support vs Peak Power in Mission Control App v2.0

Hi Specialized I have a 2019 Turbo Levo. I'm wanting clarification of Support vs Peak Power plse. Have read forum answers where I can and I think I've established that at 100% Support and 100% Peak Power, with a 500w battery, say rider input of 100 watts then bike will deliver 320w (3.2 x...

www.emtbforums.com

Support = the multiplier of rider power added by the motor
Peak Power = maximum electrical power available to supply the motor

In terms of support, each e-Bike motor is slightly different. 100% on the slider means 4.1x rider power for 2019 Levo (2.1 motor), 3.8x for 2018 Levo (1.3 motor) and 3.2x for older Levo (1.2)

When you talk about motor power, bear in mind that two types of power regularly get confused when discussing e-bikes:

a) Electrical input power (battery power that the motor consumes)
b) Mechanical output power (motor power that is added to rider power at the crank)

Mission Control (+ all other apps using ANT data) measure the electrical input power to the motor (Battery Voltage x Current). This is what you see if you view the stats page whilst riding, and it's what you limit when you reduce peak power - if you reduce peak power to 50% you're effectively limiting the motor to draw up to 50% of maximum permitted battery current. Reducing peak power therefore helps you to preserve battery life/range.

In the real world, what you actually care about/feel is the mechanical output power of the motor. Motors are not 100% efficient, some power is lost to heat so let's use 75% efficiency as an arbitrary estimate. In this example, for every 100W of electrical power the battery supplies to the motor you'd get 75W mechanical power at the crank.

However there are two other things to bear in mind - YOU are not 100% efficient either, often riding in the wrong gear and asking the motor to do all the hard work - PLUS the motor is happiest when you ride in the right gear at a good cadence - let's say 70-90 rpm. So when you're riding in optimum gear and around 80rpm, you're turning 75% of the electrical power consumed into mechanical power - but when you're riding in the wrong gear at 40rpm uphill don't expect the same results!

Below is a graph (data presented by us but measured/validated by an independent lab) showing how power varies with cadence for a number of motors - you can see that aiming for a constant cadence of around 80-90rpm will not only give you optimum power but also efficiency. Whether you are after power or range, pedaling at the right RPM makes a big difference.

To put all of this together, let's talk through the default support settings in Mission Control. You can change these to suit your riding style at any time, but let's use these as an example.

In Turbo mode on a 2019 Levo with 4.1x rider support at 100%, you'll only need to put in about 140W rider power for the motor to supply you with the maximum assist of 560W (taken from the graph above), assuming you're spinning at about 80-90 rpm. Lots of fun, also useful to get to the trail but possibly too powerful for steep climbing - especially if the ground covering is loose.

On the same bike with Support set to 35%, you're getting approx 1.5x rider support. This will feel much more natural to ride and you'll use less battery - in Trail mode with 100% peak power the motor will still reach it's maximum assist of 560W but this time you need to put in 390W rider power to get there. You get more of a work out and in practice you'll use far less battery. Aim for this mode to give you the best blend of power and efficiency so that you also have optimum control for trail riding.

In Eco mode with support set to 35% you still have approx 1.5x rider support - however you're now limited to 35% peak power (35% of 560W is approx 200W maximum motor assistance). In practice this means that you'll get linear support from the motor up until you put in about 140W rider power (200W added from the motor), but above 140W rider power you'll still only receive 200W support from the motor. This is great to preserve battery life but if you hit that peak support limit whilst climbing something steep, you have to make up all the extra with your legs.

Note: All power mentioned in this Mission Control example is mechanical power output by the motor. If you look in the stats screen of Mission Control whilst riding you will see electrical power consumed by the motor which will be higher. Re-read this article a few times and if still completely unsure...

 

[Stefan Mikes]

It is still obscure, Marcela.

1. What is the practical outcome of reducing the Support from 100 to 50% in terms of a. Acceleration b. Maximum speed achieved by a rider with leg power of 84 W at ideal conditions c. Battery consumption?
2. Same questions with staying at 100% Support but reducing the Peak Power to 50%?

The Rx Street-tune of the Vado is not the same as the Rx Trail-tune of the Levo. The Levo is tuned for climbing, the Vado is tuned for the speed.

P.S. I intend to make two test rides under possibly the same conditions and swapping the batteries: a. 50% Support, 100% Peak Power; b. 100% support, 50% Peak Power. I need to wait for more windless weather though.

 

[Nxkharra]

This is from the emtb forum. Came from someone who rep'd Specialized. Thought it was useful so here goes. Here is the link to the full thread also.

Mission Control - Understanding Support vs Peak Power in Mission Control App v2.0

Hi Specialized I have a 2019 Turbo Levo. I'm wanting clarification of Support vs Peak Power plse. Have read forum answers where I can and I think I've established that at 100% Support and 100% Peak Power, with a 500w battery, say rider input of 100 watts then bike will deliver 320w (3.2 x...

www.emtbforums.com

Support = the multiplier of rider power added by the motor
Peak Power = maximum electrical power available to supply the motor

In terms of support, each e-Bike motor is slightly different. 100% on the slider means 4.1x rider power for 2019 Levo (2.1 motor), 3.8x for 2018 Levo (1.3 motor) and 3.2x for older Levo (1.2)

When you talk about motor power, bear in mind that two types of power regularly get confused when discussing e-bikes:

a) Electrical input power (battery power that the motor consumes)
b) Mechanical output power (motor power that is added to rider power at the crank)

Mission Control (+ all other apps using ANT data) measure the electrical input power to the motor (Battery Voltage x Current). This is what you see if you view the stats page whilst riding, and it's what you limit when you reduce peak power - if you reduce peak power to 50% you're effectively limiting the motor to draw up to 50% of maximum permitted battery current. Reducing peak power therefore helps you to preserve battery life/range.

In the real world, what you actually care about/feel is the mechanical output power of the motor. Motors are not 100% efficient, some power is lost to heat so let's use 75% efficiency as an arbitrary estimate. In this example, for every 100W of electrical power the battery supplies to the motor you'd get 75W mechanical power at the crank.

However there are two other things to bear in mind - YOU are not 100% efficient either, often riding in the wrong gear and asking the motor to do all the hard work - PLUS the motor is happiest when you ride in the right gear at a good cadence - let's say 70-90 rpm. So when you're riding in optimum gear and around 80rpm, you're turning 75% of the electrical power consumed into mechanical power - but when you're riding in the wrong gear at 40rpm uphill don't expect the same results!

Below is a graph (data presented by us but measured/validated by an independent lab) showing how power varies with cadence for a number of motors - you can see that aiming for a constant cadence of around 80-90rpm will not only give you optimum power but also efficiency. Whether you are after power or range, pedaling at the right RPM makes a big difference.

To put all of this together, let's talk through the default support settings in Mission Control. You can change these to suit your riding style at any time, but let's use these as an example.

In Turbo mode on a 2019 Levo with 4.1x rider support at 100%, you'll only need to put in about 140W rider power for the motor to supply you with the maximum assist of 560W (taken from the graph above), assuming you're spinning at about 80-90 rpm. Lots of fun, also useful to get to the trail but possibly too powerful for steep climbing - especially if the ground covering is loose.

On the same bike with Support set to 35%, you're getting approx 1.5x rider support. This will feel much more natural to ride and you'll use less battery - in Trail mode with 100% peak power the motor will still reach it's maximum assist of 560W but this time you need to put in 390W rider power to get there. You get more of a work out and in practice you'll use far less battery. Aim for this mode to give you the best blend of power and efficiency so that you also have optimum control for trail riding.

In Eco mode with support set to 35% you still have approx 1.5x rider support - however you're now limited to 35% peak power (35% of 560W is approx 200W maximum motor assistance). In practice this means that you'll get linear support from the motor up until you put in about 140W rider power (200W added from the motor), but above 140W rider power you'll still only receive 200W support from the motor. This is great to preserve battery life but if you hit that peak support limit whilst climbing something steep, you have to make up all the extra with your legs.

Note: All power mentioned in this Mission Control example is mechanical power output by the motor. If you look in the stats screen of Mission Control whilst riding you will see electrical power consumed by the motor which will be higher. Re-read this article a few times and if still completely unsure...

Vey informative write up. Thanks @Marcela

 

[Katysax]

Has anyone removed the fenders from their Como? I’ve never much like fenders; I live in Los Angeles so it rarely rains. I think the fenders rattle a little and they look clunky.

 

[Dr.V]

See my post earlier in this forum about fender rattling. Agree that the como fenders rattle and are cheap. Am going to have the shop take them off ASAP. Would do it myself but will let them fool with it. BTW, to confirm seat post diameter, just happened across this on page 5 of the vado/como user manual under section 4.4 Seatpost: "Vado/Como frames have a 30.9mm seatpost diameter ...". Maybe they'll update the website ...

 

[Stefan Mikes]

I’ve never much like fenders; I live in Los Angeles so it rarely rains.

Then never ride out when it rains. The front fender is to protect the vents of the motor chamber.

 

[Marcela]

It is still obscure, Marcela.

1. What is the practical outcome of reducing the Support from 100 to 50% in terms of a. Acceleration b. Maximum speed achieved by a rider with leg power of 84 W at ideal conditions c. Battery consumption?
2. Same questions with staying at 100% Support but reducing the Peak Power to 50%?

The Rx Street-tune of the Vado is not the same as the Rx Trail-tune of the Levo. The Levo is tuned for climbing, the Vado is tuned for the speed.

P.S. I intend to make two test rides under possibly the same conditions and swapping the batteries: a. 50% Support, 100% Peak Power; b. 100% support, 50% Peak Power. I need to wait for more windless weather though.

I understand it better but the math is elusive, you just have to plug in the numbers. Your acceleration will be governed by what gear you are using. Too small a gear and it's possible you won't accelerate at all.

 

[Stefan Mikes]

I'm a process engineer and I seem to understand numbers I cannot understand obscure explanations though.

Will you care answering my questions or shall I run an experiment?

 

[Marcela]

I'm a process engineer and I seem to understand numbers I cannot understand obscure explanations though.

Will you care answering my questions or shall I run an experiment?

definitely do the experiment.

 

[Kam1936]

I'm a process engineer and I seem to understand numbers I cannot understand obscure explanations though.

Will you care answering my questions or shall I run an experiment?

@Stefan Mikes. Hey. So I got this stuff. I know I need the tubes. Lbs is thriving still with COVID -19. The manager was too busy to take me through a crash course on the items. From what I understand the NM is important when tightening. She told me the lever is for flats. That's news to me. I have no idea whose on first. However, I'm anxious to learn. I'm willing to pay for step by step instructions to change out front and back tire in case I flatten out. Is this everything I need? And are you up for the task? Mind you nothing pretty like being on a bike stand. I haven't gotten around to that yet. I need step by step visual instructions for dummies like myself on the side of the road for fixing a flat. I'm willing to pay for the demo and walk through. The Youtube videos assume a lot. Rather then a patch job, I want to change out the entire tube. And learn how to do the patch job at home.

 

[Nxkharra]

@Stefan Mikes. Hey. So I got this stuff. I know I need the tubes. Lbs is thriving still with COVID -19. The manager was too busy to take me through a crash course on the items. From what I understand the NM is important when tightening. She told me the lever is for flats. That's news to me. I have no idea whose on first. However, I'm anxious to learn. I'm willing to pay for step by step instructions to change out front and back tire in case I flatten out. Is this everything I need? And are you up for the task? Mind you nothing pretty like being on a bike stand. I haven't gotten around to that yet. I need step by step visual instructions for dummies like myself on the side of the road for fixing a flat. I'm willing to pay for the demo and walk through. The Youtube videos assume a lot. Rather then a patch job, I want to change out the entire tube. And learn how to do the patch job at home.

@Kam1936 one of the friends on this forum recommended this inexpensive devise which could be used in the field or at home without the need to own a stand. I have ordered it for the road.
just a recommendation.
@Stefan Mikes encouraged me to change the tires (Specialized Trigger to Schwalbe E Plus) of my Vado 5 myself as opposed to LBS.
I did so last week and worked well.
I know you can do this. I am not mechanically inclined.

 

[Sierratim]

@Stefan Mikes. Hey. So I got this stuff. I know I need the tubes. Lbs is thriving still with COVID -19. The manager was too busy to take me through a crash course on the items. From what I understand the NM is important when tightening. She told me the lever is for flats. That's news to me. I have no idea whose on first. However, I'm anxious to learn. I'm willing to pay for step by step instructions to change out front and back tire in case I flatten out. Is this everything I need? And are you up for the task? Mind you nothing pretty like being on a bike stand. I haven't gotten around to that yet. I need step by step visual instructions for dummies like myself on the side of the road for fixing a flat. I'm willing to pay for the demo and walk through. The Youtube videos assume a lot. Rather then a patch job, I want to change out the entire tube. And learn how to do the patch job at home.

Torque, often expressed in inch-pounds or newton-meters (NM), is an important spec to correctly tighten fasteners on your bike. The Ritchey tool your LBS gave you is a torque wrench preset to 4NM, a common, but not all-encompassing, bike spec. You can use this for some basic adjustment and service tasks. I would recommend a more fully-featured multi-tool to take on rides and a couple of more tools for your home shop, but that's another topic. I like the Topeak Alien II multi-tool, but there are lots of choices.

Park Tool, the maker of the other tool your LBS gave you (a tire lever), has a wonderful set of free instructional videos available to the public. These are accessible from their web site, parktool.com, and their YouTube channel; https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCzaZ1sPWEuZN-I8_XT6AH8g.

I use these videos to help teach local youth groups how to repair a flat; https://www.parktool.com/blog/repair-help/wheel-removal-and-installation, https://www.parktool.com/blog/repair-help/tire-and-tube-removal-and-installation, https://www.parktool.com/blog/repair-help/inner-tube-repair after which they remove their wheel, tire, and tube. I then give them a tube with a hole. Their job is to find and patch the hole, pressure tets their patch, and then make their bikes ready to ride again. It's good to practice.

Removing either wheel on a Vado requires a 5mm hex wrench. It seems that this bit is included with the Ritchey tool, but the torque setting for the through axel is 15NM as I recall so you'll likely need a different tool to remove the axle. As I mentioned, I'd recommend you carry a basic bike tool with this bit plus tire levers (2 minimum), a patch kit, a spare tube, and a Presta compatible pump on your rides. Flats happen. For the spare tubes, I always coat them with baby powder to keep them from vulcanizing to the tire casing, ruining both. I carry the powdered spare tube in a zip lock bag in my saddlebag with the other pieces and parts needed for a flat repair.

Using a work stand does make flat repair easier. In the field, some turn the bike upside down. I leave the bike upright and lean it against a tree, bench or whatever after removing a wheel. This is straight forward for the front wheel. For the rear you want to keep the drive train out of the dirt. I put the kickstand down and position the bike near something it can lean against (tree, bench, etc). Start by shifting to the smallest cog on the cassette (per the video). Then standing at the rear of the bike turn the derailleur clutch to off and remove the through-axle with one hand while supporting the bike with the other. Next extend the derailleur fully with one hand while pulling the wheel out with the other (this takes a bit of 'jiggling' and leaning the bike into its nearby tree or whatever). Leave the bike supported on its kickstand and tree and make the repair. Reverse the process to install the wheel.

The process is a bit awkward at first but gets easier with practice.

BTW - Your hands are going to get a bit grimey. I carry a couple of individually packaged degreaser wipes to clean up after a field repair. Grease Monkey wipes are my preferred brand, though the individual packs are getting hard to find. In the shop I keep a spray bottle of an 'orange' degreaser and paper shop towels around for this.

Hope this helps. Practice makes perfect.

Ride on.

 

[Nxkharra]

I just bought a pair of handlebar jacks. It's much, much easier to work on an ebike, epecially if it's a hub drive, when the bike is upside down.

@Deacon Blues what is the best and easiest way to turn the heavy bike upside down without hurting bike components and/or yourself. I realize you might not have used yours yet.
I am getting mine tomorrow and hope I never have to use it in the field.

 

[Sierratim]

@Deacon Blues what is the best and easiest way to turn the heavy bike upside down without hurting bike components and/or yourself. I realize you might not have used yours yet.
I am getting mine tomorrow and hope I never have to use it in the field.

The bike weight is the biggest concern I have with these handlebar jacks.