Specialized Turbo Creo 28mph Electric Road Bike

[MikeDee]

I see where Specialized now has a less expensive Creo
Turbo Creo SL Comp Carbon

$6,500.00

Trek now has the Domane+ LT with the Fazua Evation system for the same price.

I think the Specialized emotor is a better design and has a 28 mph cutoff speed vs. 20 and the capability of adding auxiliary batteries, but the components on the Trek are better and it has a double crank. Curious that the existing Domane+ is still offered for $500 less with the more powerful Bosch system.

(This is in the US)

 

[Deacon Blues]

As a Canadian I look at your US prices and weep.
I'd love to ride both, and I think my local Specialized bike shop will bring in some Creos, but I have my doubts that my local Giant/Trek shop will bring in a Domane+ LT, which is $8,500 Can. Small town bike shops usually can't afford to bring in these very expensive bikes.

 

[Ebiker01]

I see where Specialized now has a less expensive Creo
Turbo Creo SL Comp Carbon

$6,500.00

Trek now has the Domane+ LT with the Fazua Evation system for the same price.

I think the Specialized emotor is a better design and has a 28 mph cutoff speed vs. 20 and the capability of adding auxiliary batteries, but the components on the Trek are better and it has a double crank. Curious that the existing Domane+ is still offered for $500 less with the more powerful Bosch system.

(This is in the US)

A very poor decision on behalf of Trek management. Someone should be replaced for not offering a 28mph road ebike in 2020. I asked precisely in nov. ‘19 and the Trek sales rep told me that they will have a 28mph updated Domane. This was in their own store , not the regular bicycle store.

Trek, I’m glad i didn’t gave you any down payment !

The ebikemotion and Fazua ... they should take those back to Europe and offer them for free. Nobody is gullible to that marketing .

It will be only Specialized Oreos vs Specialized Creos on the road.

 

[Stefan Mikes]

I live in Australia where the legal limit for ebikes is 25km/hr. I had a long ride on an Wilier Cento1 hybrid (very similar to Orbea Gain) earlier this year and you can read my review of that here. I decided to buy a Creo based on a number of issues I had with the Wilier. I have owned the Creo since 1 November and I have ridden about 1600km on it. I'm in the process of writing a detailed review and I'd like to share some of my initial observations with you here. I’m not trying to justify my decision to purchase the Creo but I obviously did a fair bit of deliberation before I stumped up $AUD12,000 on a bike plus $AUD1,200 for two range extenders. I chose the Creo because I believed that it addressed all my concerns with the ebikemotion x35 drive system, but I also respect that other people might have different concerns or requirements and the things that are important to me may not be a factor for them. I hope some people might find this evaluation useful. The specific things that made me choose the Creo are:

• Probably the biggest differentiator for me is the way the Creo is designed to decouple completely once the boost limit is reached. In Australia and Europe the boost limit is 25km/hr so very easy to reach on a flat road. On the Wilier the drag of the hub motor when pedalling above the boost limit was quite small but definitely noticeable. On the Creo, once the motor decouples it’s the same as riding a normal (12.5kg) road bike. Another benefit I soon discovered is the Creo is pretty much "set and forget". On the Wilier I had to switch drive modes fairly often and even stop and adjust the power output of each mode to avoid wasting battery if I couldn't find a happy boost level on those long Pyrenees rides. On the Creo, once I worked out the three levels of boost that suit me I pretty much just use the middle setting always and only switch to full boosts on very steep climbs. I rarely use the minimum (Eco) setting.
• The second most important feature for me is the ability to remove the internal battery on the Creo for travelling and then power the bike just on a range extender fitted in the rear bottle cage. Ebikemotion bikes cannot do this. Specialized have also sized the range extender perfectly at 160Whr so that two range extenders can be carried on aircraft as hand luggage under current IATA rules.
• A bottom bracket central motor rather than a hub motor. The benefits include:
  • Easy removal of the rear wheel in case of punctures
  • Ability to have a set of gravel specific wheels
  • Better ride due to less weight over the rear axle
  • Lower centre of gravity and so lighter handling.
  • Better power at high cadence
• The Creo incorporates a power meter, cadence and speed sensors in the drive. These combine to allow the drive to put out power proportional to the riders input. Ebikemotion drives cannot do this – after an initial progressive ramp up they put out a constant output (set at one of three levels with the app). There is also the small benefit that I didn't have to fit separate speed and cadence sensors to the bike.
• The Wilier and all its x35 ebikemotion counterparts (Bianchi e-road, Orbea Gain, Ribble Endurance) are barely available in Australia and there is no extensive dealer network for any of those brands. Specialized is a big brand in Australia and world wide and that made me feel more comfortable about after sales service.
• There was a clunkiness about the app used to control the x35 drive system on the Wilier. It would not stay paired with the bike, it was difficult to understand, the documentation was very poor, the heart rate based power control didn’t work at all well and I just felt like it was a beta copy of something that might get better in the future. The Specialized Mission Control app had been around for a while for use on the Levo and Kenevo mountain bikes and in my test riding of the Creo it performed faultlessly.
• Other little things like both bikes featured a range extender but the one for the Wilier was still not available a year after the bikes release where the Specialized range extender was available at the time of the bike release. Also the range extender integration on the Specialized is much better than on ebikemotion bikes as mentioned previously.

I was lucky enough to be able to do an extended test ride on one of the first Creo’s to arrive in Australia. After that one ride I went back to the shop and ordered the SL Expert.

Specifications

The SL Expert is quite highly specified with Shimano Di2 1 x 11 gearing, Shimano 160mm hydraulic disk brakes, Roval C36 carbon wheels with 28mm Specialized turbo tyres and future shock 2 front “suspension”. It has the same FACT 11r frame as the S-Works. It also has mudguard mounting points and rack mounting points. It can take up to 42mm tyres so can easily be used on gravel roads and light bikepacking. Very much an all round touring bike.

First impressions

I was surprised when I turned on the bike and then turned on my Garmin 1030 and it immediately recognized the bike and created a new e-bike profile complete with speed, cadence, power and battery readings, all coming direct from the bike electronics. When my Garmin syncs with Strava, it uploads as an e-bike ride so I don't get any "cups" which is fair enough.

My other bike is a 2017 Trek Domane Project 1 with front and rear isospeed decouplers and 28mm tyres so it’s a very smooth riding bike. The Creo is perhaps more compliant in the front with the futureshock 2 and perhaps slightly harsher in the rear. All in all I am very pleased with the way the Creo rides. Handling is very precise and feels very stable and confident in fast winding descents.

My LBS agreed to go through the internal battery removal procedure with me as this is something I will have to do before travelling overseas. We completed the complete removal (right crank off, chainwheel off, motor out, battery out, motor back in and chainwheel/crank back on) in 15 minutes. No special tools other than a torque wrench are required.

Negatives

Yes there are some but they are more "annoyances" than negatives

• I’m not going to list the price as a negative as I think its pretty good value for money.
• The 25km/hr boost limit is a negative (for all road ebikes in Australia). There is apparently a 10% margin on this and Specialized have pushed this to the limit. Boost cuts out at exactly 27.5km/hr. My riding buddies soon realised if they keep the pace above 28kph I’m working harder than them.
• 12.5kg is heavy. Not heavy to ride but heavy to put on my car, lift over a gutter, put on a rack outside the coffee shop. That kind of heavy.
• The motor hum is quite audible, considerably louder than the x35 drive.
• This may seem like nit-picking but its troublesome to lubricate the chain. When the cranks are turned backwards they freewheel and the chain doesn’t move.
• They use another thru axle standard: “Boost”. This means the 12mm thru axle gravel wheels from my Trek won’t fit on the Creo because the hub spacing is wider. So I have to buy another set of wheels for gravel riding.

Example rides
I will hopefully be putting up a more detailed analysis of a few of my rides but so far:

• My longest ride (with range extender) has been 150km with 1700m of climbing and I arrived home with 25% battery (that's 25% of the 320Whr internal + 160Whr RE)
• My biggest climbing ride (with range extender) was 120km with 3100m of climbing with 8% battery at the finish.
• I do a regular ride with a fairly fast group around the bay in Melbourne (flat) for 35km then 30km of 3%-9% hills and back home on 35km of flat road. I regularly finish the first 35km with 97% battery because its all above 27.5km/hr. On flat rides I don't find the bike much more work than my 9kg Trek. After 30km of hills the battery is about 60% and when I get home after 100km and 650m of climbing the battery is still above 50% (this is just the internal battery, no range extender).

Is it a good thing?
I'm (nearly) 69 and I bought this bike because I have arthritic knees and some calf issues that have been limiting my riding all through 2019. I find riding this bike allows me to do the climbing I love with a bit less strain and consequently I come home not feeling 10 years older than when I went out. I feel pretty great after a ride on this bike actually. Would other ebikes do the same thing - probably. Would I be able to keep up with my riding buddies on a combination of fast flat roads and hills on another ebike - probably not. Would I enjoy other road ebikes as much as the Creo - based on my experience with the Wilier - probably not. But the real deal-maker for me is the fact I can travel legally with the Creo. No other manufacturer (to my knowledge) has nailed this aspect yet. I can remove the internal battery from the Creo and then take the bike on the plane as part of my baggage allowance and I can take two range extenders with me as carry on luggage to give me an effective touring range of 200km on flat roads or 100km with 2000m of climbing (if I manage battery usage carefully).

@Ebiker01, have you read that? Fodder for thoughts.

 

[Ebiker01]

Yes I read it before. I like all those 4 I mentioned.

Bh has 504wh pack, 50/34crank, great warranty.

Bulls looks really , really good, 500wh pack.

Trek Domane +HP will have a 625 WH !! Pack, and the lighter Bosch + other details that they are working on hard in order to beat the Creo . Plus great dealer support. That’s probably the closest ebike to the Creo level....But Creo has the higher end ones also which look awesome. Maybe Trek will have some surprises as well ??

Specialized - Definitely the Best road ebike for the next 1-3years or until Bh and Trek show their offerings. I have to hit my Sunday group ride and see how many of them are. I’m sure it will be >1 !

 

[Deacon Blues]

I'm surprised that the largest bike company in the world, Giant, hasn't come out with more innovative ebikes.

 

[Captain Slow]

I'm surprised that the largest bike company in the world, Giant, hasn't come out with more innovative ebikes.

What do you think they're lacking? For me the 2020 models having only a 375 wh battery is a huge issue. But are you thinking they should have developed their own motor like Specialized?

I read in Road Bike Action that the Creo motor has 80%+ efficiency from a cadence of 60 to 110 and that it's high relative to other ebike motors. I'd love to know what the efficiency of other motors are.

Everyone on these forums always talks about power of the motor, battery capacity, etc ......

I'd love to know efficiency of various motors because that obviously affects range. If there's a big difference in efficiency there could be a big difference in range. I think the Creo is rated at 2.46 wh per km. I think RBA confirmed the range claims when they tested the bike and at first I was wondering how could they get that range from a small 320 wh battery but then they talked about how efficient the motor was.

So, if Giant could have a motor just like Specialized with that kind of efficiency then a 375 wh battery would be ok, but they're using an older Yamaha motor which I suspect isn't close to that kind of efficiency but I really don't know.

 

[Deacon Blues]

I expect more from Giant, with its huge financial and engineering resources. Maybe they're just being cautious. Surely they must be looking at the Creo and thinking, "We need to produce something like this". Then-again, maybe they are and are keeping it under raps until it's ready for production.
One of my bikes is a 2018 Giant Defy Advanced Pro 0 (full carbon, with Di2 shifters). I love riding this bike, but lately, after reading about the Creo, I'm wondering how awesome this bike would be in an ebike format.
Are you listening Giant?

 

[CLHall]

I read most of this thread but I thought I would add my .02 (for what it is worth)...if it is helpful to anyone...
I have been an avid road cyclist for over 20 years and recently developed chronic back problems thanks to a lifetime of active abuse to my back (horses, policing, biking, lifting, and just general wear and tear, ie, age). In the end, I couldn’t pedal 10 miles on my non-assist road bike without stopping. That’s not me. Enter the Orbea Gain. I went for the limited M20i, it was fairly pricey, and was told at the time that the range extender would be available in a week or two (I bought it last spring). While the performance of the bike was satisfactory...satisfactory in that I could get a decent workout without the stress to my back...ebikemotion was NOT. The app is subpar, the range extender (which I understand is out now) never delivered despite repeated promises, and I did not like the rear hub system.....and, I have to say, I am still a bit of a snob, I didn’t like having to explain it or justify it. I’ll own that. I put probably 2k miles or so on it over the spring/summer/early fall and then bit the bullet and bought the Creo Expert as soon as it came out, which, sadly, was at the every end of the fall. I probably have only ridden it twice (I do not ride in the winter except on the wahoo)....so I am not really overly qualified to comment on it besides on the 150 or so miles I have put on it...except to comment on the comparison between the two bikes. First, and most notably, the battery range is, of course, notably better on the Creo. I learned how to manage my battery life on the Gain so as to be able to eeek out a 100k (which could be tough in windy conditions), for example, I had to spend a lot of time drafting behind my partner, because time NOT pedaling was time that the battery cut off. Also, the battery would cut off above 20 mph, but, of course, I had to help it get there (it needed my input), which could get tiring on the flats or in a wind, so I would tend to hover around 18mph, which would drain the battery...drafting helped. Hills also helped (oddly) because coasting helped the battery. I did no such maintenance on the Creo, just let it run, and came home with 60 percent battery, where the same ride would have drained my Orbea battery, even (note that I never rode above ”eco” mode or level 1 assist on the Orbea...not even once). The Specialized has a variety of ways to customize the levels of assist that I have not yet jacked with and am still puzzled by and to me, the first level of assist was quite a bit lighter than the first level of assist on the Orbea (which was JUST enough to equal the additional weight of the bike, plus assist a bit on the hills, but not enough to really give me much of an edge on flats or whatever...it was like a tailwind, I guess), but the second level was quite a bit heavier, so I will play with it. I don’t love the noise, but once both my husband and I were zipping along, the noise blended in with the noise of the wind and road and was not really an issue, there is a gentle hum. My guy at the LBS hooked er up to his computer and changed the programming on the Di2 so that the shifting was more SRAM like, since the the front is a 1x setup...it took me a little bit of time to get used to (tap the right shifter to shift one direction, the left to go the other, as opposed to tapping the right for the RD and left for the front), and I may reprogram them back, but it is pretty neat that they can be programmed to do what you want. Who knew? It is a comfortable bike, but I did feel that for a bike as dang expensive as this it should come in a SIZE. I bought the small, I am generally an XS kinda girl, being 5’4 with a very short torso and long legs, I ride a 48/50 cm bike depending on the build. This is fine and fits well, but I had to put a deposit down on this without trying, riding, or sitting on it, which was a bit scary. I compared the specs and thought it would work, and it does. I also was worried about how much I could MAKE it fit should I need to tweak it, and the stem does seem to be specific to the bike, so here’s hoping that more miles does not prove to warrant adjusting or I am just going to be SOL. Having said that, it proves to feel much more SOLID on the road than the Orbea, less chattery, but at the same time does not feel clunky or burdensome. I have no doubt it is pedalable unassisted...I pedaled the Gain without assist plenty, and this is considerably lighter. I like the wheelset better (Roval) vs the Enve wheelset I had on the Gain. In total, the thing ran me about $9k USD...I have not yet bought the range extender for it yet, I will come spring, to have as a backup for centuries and such. I sold the Gain for about 3/4 of what I paid for it...which is fine, I feel like I got plenty of use out of it, and for someone who isn’t worried about the battery life, its a great bike. I am happy to answer anyone’s questions about my experience with either bike, obviously I have had more time on the Gain than the Creo so far!

 

[Captain Slow]

Thanks for the commentary. It is really nice to read the experience of someone who has owned both bikes. This provides very useful information on the relative efficiency of the motors that was alluded to in the Road Bike Action review i.e. the motor on the Creo is really efficient, so the relatively small battery is not that big a deal. Whereas something like the Giant Road-E which has only a slightly bigger battery at 375 wh but a much less efficient motor probably gets a lot less range than the Creo.

I have been leaning towards the Creo and this helps quite a bit. Once we get some spring weather I would love to get further impressions when you get more time on the Creo. Maybe a new thread to report on your real world experience with the Creo. My LBS told me back in August that aluminum Creos would be coming and one could be had for $6k Cdn. but they haven't arrived yet and it could be quite a while.

I might want to transport the bike with a top tube rack so I want an aluminum one instead of a carbon one. But who knows, if I get tired waiting maybe I'll spend the $8k Cdn. for a carbon one.

 

[MikeDee]

Orbea advertises 100 km range with the Gain which has a 248 Wh battery. If the Gain had the bigger Creo battery (320 Wh), it would go 80 miles too ((320/248) * 100km * .62 mi/km = 80 mi).

 

[Deacon Blues]

Captain Slow, I'm looking at the $8200 model too (gravel model), but I think I'll wait at least a year until I buy one. For now I still really enjoy riding my light, carbon road bike. Maybe I'll buy myself a Creo for my 70th birthday (in less than two years). Just saying 70 makes me shudder. Damn, I'm getting old.

CLHall, thank you for the comparison between the Gain and Creo. It's much appreciated and I hope you give us feedback as you put more miles on your bike.

One thing you could do, to make your long post more readable, is to use a lot of mini paragraphs. For some reason it's a lot easier to read a long post on a computer screen when it's broken up into small paragraphs.
I have Di2 on my summer road bike and absolutely love it. It's a real downer when I start riding my winter bike, a Specialized Diverge, with a 105 groupset, during our long, wet winters on Vancouver Island (British Columbia). The 105 groupset is fine, and it has been trouble free for 8000 km, but the Di2 setup is in another league.

 

[Captain Slow]

Based upon the real world experience of CLHall, it does not sound like the Gain would have the same range if it had a 320 wh battery. With "managing" the battery the whole way it was drained after 100 km's. With the Creo no "management" at all and returned with 60% battery. 320 * 0.60 = 192 wh. 320-192 = 128 wh used which is a lot less than 248. Of course no guarantee that all other variables were consistent, but from the sounds of it the Creo would have a longer range than the Gain if the battery sizes were equal.

I also like the fact the Creo comes with a larger battery and I could do long rides without the range extender. More room for water bottles and also when I commute to work no worry that the extender will be gone when I return to my bike at the end of the day.

 

[CLHall]

Orbea advertises 100 km range with the Gain which has a 248 Wh battery. If the Gain had the bigger Creo battery (320 Wh), it would go 80 miles too ((320/248) * 100km * .62 mi/km = 80 mi).

yeah, I know what Orbea says. I did get a 100k or two out of a battery, BUT both rides I either averaged over 20mph for stretches (flats, legit tailwinds or a big group) or kept the battery off for the first ten or 15 miles...

I do think that perhaps a stronger rider who might keep it above 20 mph might not drain it as quickly. Certainly, the worst drain came if I pulled a group on the flat at 18 or 19 mph... I actually, at this level I was doing the MOST work, but it was constantly “on”. Again, I never used it above the “green” eco level.

I met another gain rider who had an aluminum model, she could not get past 35-40 miles. However, she was a fairly assist dependent rider and varied between level two and three, and her speed stayed below 20 mph.

The Creo battery doesn’t seem to work quite the same way. Even in the first few rides my battery consumption obsession habits are obviously going to have to change. It also has a neat feature, you can program in the projected mileage and it makes sure you don’t drain the battery.

I would have stuck with the Orbea, I really would have, had eBikemotion not been so frustrating. But, even with just a few rides, it’s pretty obvious that the Creo has done a far better job in terms of engineering the battery and making battery consumption user friendly for those of us who need to do distances. And it is a super pretty bike!

 

[MikeDee]

I think I'd rather manage power consumption manually to get the requisite amount of miles than have some phone app do it. It probably reduces your power in the eco mode, which I tried with the Gain, but didn't like it. I'd rather ride unpowered for the easier (flatter) sections early in the ride and save the battery for later, if battery life is an issue. Now I have the auxiliary battery so that pretty much solved the problem and I can ride in the higher power modes too. Keeping the phone on for a long ride depletes the phone battery and you really need to go with an external phone battery. I rode with the phone on my bars and an external phone battery for a while, but that got old after a while. I have a Garmin anyway so. Does the Creo have a USB port to plug your phone into? Than would be nice if it did.

 

[CLHall]

I think I'd rather manage power consumption manually to get the requisite amount of miles than have some phone app do it. It probably reduces your power in the eco mode, which I tried with the Gain, but didn't like it. I'd rather ride unpowered for the easier (flatter) sections early in the ride and save the battery for later, if battery life is an issue. Now I have the auxiliary battery so that pretty much solved the problem and I can ride in the higher power modes too. Keeping the phone on for a long ride depletes the phone battery and you really need to go with an external phone battery. I rode with the phone on my bars and an external phone battery for a while, but that got old after a while. I have a Garmin anyway so. Does the Creo have a USB port to plug your phone into? Than would be nice if it did.

i don’t **think so*** but the aux battery might. I kept my phone on the handlebars on the Gain and managed my battery life that way and my phone always survived, even with iTunes Bluetoothing with my Airshox.

For HHH, which is a super flat, airless ride, (I rode the Gain), I kept the battery off the first 20 miles. For me, this was a pain, because part of the reason for the Ebike was to keep me from blowing out my back. But on a flat ride like that, I knew I’d need it. Even with that, I chickened out on doing the full 100.

The Creo does have a lot of customizable battery options, I feel like it needs a “for dummies” tutorial. I was so so so micromanagy about the gain it was hard to just “let it run”.... but since I was just breaking it in that’s what I did and it was certainly much more efficient than the Gain around my usual training route.

Had the battery extender been available earlier or whatever I might have hung in there. It’s def a good bike, but I think in the long run I’ll love the Creo.

 

[OzGreg]

Heres a link to a short video I recorded yesterday on my Creo

All riding was done in "Sport" which I have set for 40% Support and 50% Peak Power.
The metrics (except heart rate) are coming from the Creo. Sometimes the data display is out of sync (this happens when I chop up a long ride and I didn't bother fixing it)
All up this ride was 110km of mostly flat or undulating hills and I had 70% battery (no range extender) at the end of the ride.

Following on from the points above, I just ride the Creo in the Sport setting, I rarely change the settings and for this type of riding the range is phenomenal. I think I could do 300km on just the internal battery.

 

[Captain Slow]

OzGreg are you turning off the system completely during portions of your ride? I understand the motor in the Creo is quite efficient, but getting over 100 km's of riding and using no more than 30% of the battery seems huge to me.

 

[OzGreg]

OzGreg are you turning off the system completely during portions of your ride? I understand the motor in the Creo is quite efficient, but getting over 100 km's of riding and using no more than 30% of the battery seems huge to me.

I never turn the motor off, I don't touch the settings at all, but in Australia the motor cuts out at 27.5km/hr and much of this ride is above 27.5km/hr so no battery is used.

 

[Ebiker01]

What’s the purpose to ride a 30lb ebike if it only does 18mph top speed ?
One might as well just ride a 20lb steel bike and ride faster b/c of a much lower Weight.

Is that hard to ride up to 18mph ? Or are people very lazy ? Or the motor is just for the hills ?
Still the hilly riding is usually a small portion Of one’s riding And you’re still stuck with a heavy 30lb. Bike vs a super light steel 20lb analog bike that is unlimited to 40-45mph.

Those 25kmh limit regulations are totally absurd. Wished that they have them for all cars engines electric or Ice cars. It is very discriminatory !