Deacon Blues
Well-Known Member
We're finally seeing a cheaper version of the Creo in Canada. It has the same carbon frame, but with downgraded components and aluminum wheels. $2000.00 less puts it in a price range that I would be willing to pay.
Specialized Turbo Creo 28mph Electric Road Bike
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for $2000 less you loose CF wheels AND electronic shifting. That seems like it should be a MUCH lower price.
The US version is 9,000 for the Expert and $6,500 for the Comp - $2,500 US$ difference.
The Comp is defiantly a bad value for money here in Canada. I would have jumped at the Comp version if it had Di2.
The US version is 9,000 for the Expert and $6,500 for the Comp - $2,500 US$ difference.
The Comp is defiantly a bad value for money here in Canada. I would have jumped at the Comp version if it had Di2.
Deacon Blues
Well-Known Member
In Canada the Expert EVO (I want the gravel bike version) is $10,200 and the Comp Carbon EV0 is $8,200.
Carbon wheels and Di2 for $2000 seems to be a fair deal (I have Di2 on my Defy Advanced Pro 0 and love it), but I just can't see myself spending over 10 grand for a bike.
I could live with the mechanical shifter and could always upgrade to carbon wheels at a later date.
Carbon wheels and Di2 for $2000 seems to be a fair deal (I have Di2 on my Defy Advanced Pro 0 and love it), but I just can't see myself spending over 10 grand for a bike.
I could live with the mechanical shifter and could always upgrade to carbon wheels at a later date.
I would be happy living without the carbon wheels but cheap carbon wheels from specialized tend to be worth about 1,500. I paid 2,000 for my last set on my Roubaix.
On the trek forum, a guy just upgraded his bike from std to Di2 and that cost him about $2,000 just for the Di2 upgrade.
It's a tough call. I am having LOTS of issues justifying 10k for a bike.
Unfortunalty, I had to sell a std shifting road bike to go Di2 due to carpel tunnel issues in my hand so going back to std shifters is not an option for me.
If I didn't have to go Di2, I think I would go with the Aluminum version and save more.
Decisions, decisions ...
On the trek forum, a guy just upgraded his bike from std to Di2 and that cost him about $2,000 just for the Di2 upgrade.
It's a tough call. I am having LOTS of issues justifying 10k for a bike.
Unfortunalty, I had to sell a std shifting road bike to go Di2 due to carpel tunnel issues in my hand so going back to std shifters is not an option for me.
If I didn't have to go Di2, I think I would go with the Aluminum version and save more.
Decisions, decisions ...
Deacon Blues
Well-Known Member
I'm back to riding my winter bike (Specialized Diverge with 105 group set). Even though the 105s have never given me any trouble I really miss my Di2 setup on my Defy.
Deacon Blues
Well-Known Member
My local bike store is still waiting, last time I checked, for its first Creo.
Deacon Blues
Well-Known Member
Captain Slow, do you live in Canada?
Deacon Blues
Well-Known Member
Damn, I want this ebike, but it's hard to justify the purchase. I bought a Giant Defy Advance Pro 0 last year (carbon frame, carbon wheels, Di2 shifting) and I love this bike, but ( here come the but) I love this new road ebike.
I find myself making excuses to buy this bike, but truth be told I don't need it yet. At 68 I can still keep up with my senior's riding group, and even though I hate hills I don't find them overly challenging.
Maybe for my 70th birthday I'll splurge and buy myself a Specialized Creo, or something similar. By then I can say, "Boy, my Defy is looking old and worn".........
I find myself making excuses to buy this bike, but truth be told I don't need it yet. At 68 I can still keep up with my senior's riding group, and even though I hate hills I don't find them overly challenging.
Maybe for my 70th birthday I'll splurge and buy myself a Specialized Creo, or something similar. By then I can say, "Boy, my Defy is looking old and worn".........
Jaxx
Well-Known Member
Unlike your good self.
Deacon Blues
Well-Known Member
OzGreg
Member
I live in Australia where the legal limit for ebikes is 25km/hr. I had a long ride on an Wilier Cento1 hybrid (very similar to Orbea Gain) earlier this year and you can read my review of that here. I decided to buy a Creo based on a number of issues I had with the Wilier. I have owned the Creo since 1 November and I have ridden about 1600km on it. I'm in the process of writing a detailed review and I'd like to share some of my initial observations with you here. I’m not trying to justify my decision to purchase the Creo but I obviously did a fair bit of deliberation before I stumped up $AUD12,000 on a bike plus $AUD1,200 for two range extenders. I chose the Creo because I believed that it addressed all my concerns with the ebikemotion x35 drive system, but I also respect that other people might have different concerns or requirements and the things that are important to me may not be a factor for them. I hope some people might find this evaluation useful. The specific things that made me choose the Creo are:
Specifications
The SL Expert is quite highly specified with Shimano Di2 1 x 11 gearing, Shimano 160mm hydraulic disk brakes, Roval C36 carbon wheels with 28mm Specialized turbo tyres and future shock 2 front “suspension”. It has the same FACT 11r frame as the S-Works. It also has mudguard mounting points and rack mounting points. It can take up to 42mm tyres so can easily be used on gravel roads and light bikepacking. Very much an all round touring bike.
First impressions
I was surprised when I turned on the bike and then turned on my Garmin 1030 and it immediately recognized the bike and created a new e-bike profile complete with speed, cadence, power and battery readings, all coming direct from the bike electronics. When my Garmin syncs with Strava, it uploads as an e-bike ride so I don't get any "cups" which is fair enough.
My other bike is a 2017 Trek Domane Project 1 with front and rear isospeed decouplers and 28mm tyres so it’s a very smooth riding bike. The Creo is perhaps more compliant in the front with the futureshock 2 and perhaps slightly harsher in the rear. All in all I am very pleased with the way the Creo rides. Handling is very precise and feels very stable and confident in fast winding descents.
My LBS (bikenow.com.au) agreed to go through the internal battery removal procedure with me as this is something I will have to do before travelling overseas. We completed the complete removal (right crank off, chainwheel off, motor out, battery out, motor back in and chainwheel/crank back on) in 15 minutes. No special tools other than a torque wrench are required. Here's a tip the mechanic gave me: The chainwheel uses offset teeth so the chain has to be fitted correctly to mesh with the offset teeth. If the chain is fitted one link out, it sucks onto the chainwheel and runs very harshly. Just lift the chain and move it one tooth on the chainwheel.
Negatives
Yes there are some but they are more "annoyances" than negatives
I will hopefully be putting up a more detailed analysis of a few of my rides but so far:
I'm (nearly) 69 and I bought this bike because I have arthritic knees and some calf issues that have been limiting my riding all through 2019. I find riding this bike allows me to do the climbing I love with a bit less strain and consequently I come home not feeling 10 years older than when I went out. I feel pretty great after a ride on this bike actually. Would other ebikes do the same thing - probably. Would I be able to keep up with my riding buddies on a combination of fast flat roads and hills on another ebike - probably not. Would I enjoy other road ebikes as much as the Creo - based on my experience with the Wilier - probably not. But the real deal-maker for me is the fact I can travel legally with the Creo. No other manufacturer (to my knowledge) has nailed this aspect yet. I can remove the internal battery from the Creo and then take the bike on the plane as part of my baggage allowance and I can take two range extenders with me as carry on luggage to give me an effective touring range of 200km on flat roads or 100km with 2,000m of climbing (if I manage battery usage carefully).
The 27.5km/hr effective boost limit is both a blessing and a curse. The good is that on a fast flat road ride I'm always above the boost limit and the range is almost infinite as the battery only gets used when starting off or on steeper undulations when speed drops below 27km/hr (although I'm certainly working harder than I would be on a conventional road bike). The bad is that when I'm returning home after a long ride and I just want to loaf along I have to do it at 27km/hr and I would just love to be able to sit on say 32km/hr. I often get dropped returning home because the group sits on 30+ km/hr.
- Probably the biggest differentiator for me is the way the Creo is designed to decouple completely once the boost limit is reached. In Australia and Europe the boost limit is 25km/hr so very easy to reach on a flat road. On the Wilier the drag of the hub motor when pedalling above the boost limit was quite small but definitely noticeable. On the Creo, once the motor decouples it’s the same as riding a normal (12.5kg) road bike. Another benefit I soon discovered is the Creo is pretty much "set and forget". On the Wilier I had to switch drive modes fairly often and even stop and adjust the power output of each mode to avoid wasting battery if I couldn't find a happy boost level on those long Pyrenees rides. On the Creo, once I worked out the three levels of boost that suit me I pretty much just use the middle setting always and only switch to full boosts on very steep climbs. I rarely use the minimum (Eco) setting.
- The second most important feature for me is the ability to remove the internal battery on the Creo for travelling and then power the bike just on a range extender fitted in the rear bottle cage. Ebikemotion bikes cannot do this. Specialized have also sized the range extender perfectly at 160Whr so that two range extenders can be carried on aircraft as hand luggage under current IATA rules.
- A bottom bracket central motor rather than a hub motor. The benefits include:
- Easy removal of the rear wheel in case of punctures
- Ability to have a set of gravel specific wheels
- Better ride due to less weight over the rear axle
- Lower centre of gravity and so lighter handling.
- Better power at high cadence
- The Creo incorporates a power meter, cadence and speed sensors in the drive. These combine to allow the drive to put out power proportional to the riders input. Ebikemotion drives cannot do this – after an initial progressive ramp up they put out a constant output (set at one of three levels with the app). There is also the small benefit that I didn't have to fit separate speed and cadence sensors to the bike.
- The Wilier and all its x35 ebikemotion counterparts (Bianchi e-road, Orbea Gain, Ribble Endurance) are barely available in Australia and there is no extensive dealer network for any of those brands. Specialized is a big brand in Australia and world wide and that made me feel more comfortable about after sales service.
- There was a clunkiness about the app used to control the x35 drive system on the Wilier. It would not stay paired with the bike, it was difficult to understand, the documentation was very poor, the heart rate based power control didn’t work at all well and I just felt like it was a beta copy of something that might get better in the future. The Specialized Mission Control app had been around for a while for use on the Levo and Kenevo mountain bikes and in my test riding of the Creo it performed faultlessly.
- Other little things like both bikes featured a range extender but the one for the Wilier was still not available a year after the bikes release where the Specialized range extender was available at the time of the bike release. Also the range extender integration on the Specialized is much better than on ebikemotion bikes as mentioned previously.
Specifications
The SL Expert is quite highly specified with Shimano Di2 1 x 11 gearing, Shimano 160mm hydraulic disk brakes, Roval C36 carbon wheels with 28mm Specialized turbo tyres and future shock 2 front “suspension”. It has the same FACT 11r frame as the S-Works. It also has mudguard mounting points and rack mounting points. It can take up to 42mm tyres so can easily be used on gravel roads and light bikepacking. Very much an all round touring bike.
First impressions
I was surprised when I turned on the bike and then turned on my Garmin 1030 and it immediately recognized the bike and created a new e-bike profile complete with speed, cadence, power and battery readings, all coming direct from the bike electronics. When my Garmin syncs with Strava, it uploads as an e-bike ride so I don't get any "cups" which is fair enough.
My other bike is a 2017 Trek Domane Project 1 with front and rear isospeed decouplers and 28mm tyres so it’s a very smooth riding bike. The Creo is perhaps more compliant in the front with the futureshock 2 and perhaps slightly harsher in the rear. All in all I am very pleased with the way the Creo rides. Handling is very precise and feels very stable and confident in fast winding descents.
My LBS (bikenow.com.au) agreed to go through the internal battery removal procedure with me as this is something I will have to do before travelling overseas. We completed the complete removal (right crank off, chainwheel off, motor out, battery out, motor back in and chainwheel/crank back on) in 15 minutes. No special tools other than a torque wrench are required. Here's a tip the mechanic gave me: The chainwheel uses offset teeth so the chain has to be fitted correctly to mesh with the offset teeth. If the chain is fitted one link out, it sucks onto the chainwheel and runs very harshly. Just lift the chain and move it one tooth on the chainwheel.
Negatives
Yes there are some but they are more "annoyances" than negatives
- I’m not going to list the price as a negative as I think its pretty good value for money.
- The 25km/hr boost limit is a negative (for all road ebikes in Australia). There is apparently a 10% margin on this and Specialized have pushed this to the limit. Boost cuts out at exactly 27.5km/hr. My riding buddies soon realised if they keep the pace above 28kph I’m working harder than them. Even with the the motor fully decoupled, there is a lot more bottom bracket bearing/seal drag than on a normal bike and it is substantially heavier than a conventional bike.
- 12.5kg is heavy. Not heavy to ride but heavy to put on my car, lift over a gutter, put on a rack outside the coffee shop. That kind of heavy.
- The motor hum is quite audible, considerably louder than the x35 drive.
- This may seem like nit-picking but its troublesome to lubricate the chain. When the cranks are turned backwards they freewheel and the chain doesn’t move.
- They use another thru axle standard: “Boost”. This means the 12mm thru axle gravel wheels from my Trek won’t fit on the Creo because the hub spacing is wider. So I have to buy another set of wheels for gravel riding.
I will hopefully be putting up a more detailed analysis of a few of my rides but so far:
- My longest ride (with range extender) has been 150km with 1,700m of climbing and I arrived home with 25% battery (that's 25% of the 320Whr internal + 160Whr RE)
- My biggest climbing ride (with range extender) was 120km with 3,100m of climbing with 8% battery at the finish.
- I do a regular ride with a fairly fast group around the bay in Melbourne (flat) for 35km then 30km of 3%-9% hills and back home on 35km of flat road. I regularly finish the first 35km with 97% battery because its all above 27.5km/hr. On flat rides I don't find the bike a lot more work than my 9kg Trek. After 30km of hills the battery is about 60% and when I get home after 100km and 650m of climbing the battery is still above 50% (this is just the internal battery, no range extender).
I'm (nearly) 69 and I bought this bike because I have arthritic knees and some calf issues that have been limiting my riding all through 2019. I find riding this bike allows me to do the climbing I love with a bit less strain and consequently I come home not feeling 10 years older than when I went out. I feel pretty great after a ride on this bike actually. Would other ebikes do the same thing - probably. Would I be able to keep up with my riding buddies on a combination of fast flat roads and hills on another ebike - probably not. Would I enjoy other road ebikes as much as the Creo - based on my experience with the Wilier - probably not. But the real deal-maker for me is the fact I can travel legally with the Creo. No other manufacturer (to my knowledge) has nailed this aspect yet. I can remove the internal battery from the Creo and then take the bike on the plane as part of my baggage allowance and I can take two range extenders with me as carry on luggage to give me an effective touring range of 200km on flat roads or 100km with 2,000m of climbing (if I manage battery usage carefully).
The 27.5km/hr effective boost limit is both a blessing and a curse. The good is that on a fast flat road ride I'm always above the boost limit and the range is almost infinite as the battery only gets used when starting off or on steeper undulations when speed drops below 27km/hr (although I'm certainly working harder than I would be on a conventional road bike). The bad is that when I'm returning home after a long ride and I just want to loaf along I have to do it at 27km/hr and I would just love to be able to sit on say 32km/hr. I often get dropped returning home because the group sits on 30+ km/hr.
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Deacon Blues
Well-Known Member
Great review. I believe my local bike shop just got in the Di2 model (same model you purchased), in a large, which is too big for me. I'll have to wait until they get in a medium and I'm more interested in the cheaper carbon gravel version.
Saratoga Dave
Well-Known Member
Interesting! That ability to run the thing off the (transportable) boost batteries alone seems to be a very big deal to me. I’m surprised Specialized hasn’t pushed that part of it. Here’s an ebike you can actually fly with. That would go a long way towards accepting the purchase price.
Sounds like a great bike.
Sounds like a great bike.
OzGreg,
Nice review. Thanks for sharing it.
I had to read it twice, that you thought 12.5 kg was heavy. I'd be happy with under 18 kg. Of course I'm comparing apples to oranges, as I have touring bikes at a much lower price range than the Creo.
Maybe a photo of your Creo? The Creo color is stunning.
That's not correct. Once you reach the cutoff speed on an Ebikemotion x35 bike, the motor cuts off and you are not wasting battery.
OzGreg
Member
Thanks for pointing that out, I have removed the comment. I hired the Wilier in Europe and I tried to read up as much as I could on the ebikemotion system before I left home. I read that tip about switching off at the top of hills to conserver battery on a forum and I just followed that advice as I was always trying to maximise range in the Pyrenees.
OzGreg
Member
That information is not being proclaimed very loudly by Specialized but if you read Court's original post, which I think is from Specialized's press release, on page 1, down near the bottom you will see "If you want to fly with your Turbo Creo SL, the internal battery needs to be removed. You can carry a Range Extender in your carryon and when you arrive at your location, you can ride the Turbo Creo SL with just the Range Extender. " I read the same information on the Specialized website but its not easy to find.
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