Sondors first impressions

[scmike]

Sondors, Sonders (yes they should have fixed that by now) As for Sondors being a "brand"... that's a stretch at this point...

Regarding the posts by Joe Motostrano, he owns busy motorcycle and bike shop, we're lucky he took the time a all to post their observations... Who would he be schilling for... it's just good business....The fact they're willing to work on
a Sondors is progressive... It's a pretty busy time of year for them too... If I want more answers... I will just pick up a phone and call them... If he reads this thread he probably won't come back... too bad...

Hopefully Court will post his review soon...

 

[Ann M.]

Just a little info point for those who want to include information about real speed and range--download one of the free apps like MapmyRide that gives basic cycling information onto your smart phone, stuff the phone into a pocket and go ride! With the GPS on you get as good or better information than with a basic cycle computer.

 

[flymeaway]

I feel there need to be more entries at the Sondors price point that are of value.

Not trying to quibble, but what price point? Could you further elaborate? Everyone would like to see a lower cost ebike of reasonable quality offered by a reputable company. I honestly don't know what the lowest price point would be and allow a company to cover all costs, make a small profit, and remain an going concern.

Thank you,

Court J.

 

[PowerMe]

Just a little info point for those who want to include information about real speed and range--download one of the free apps like MapmyRide that gives basic cycling information onto your smart phone, stuff the phone into a pocket and go ride! With the GPS on you get as good or better information than with a basic cycle computer.

And, if you want to know the % grade roads you're riding in addition, you can also try RideWithGPS.com another freebie. I've tried a bunch and settled on RWGps as it gives me the info I want. Has apps for iPhone & Android and an integrated website.

 

[Admin]

Thanks for the great feedback everyone! @Ann M., thanks for reaching out on the Facebook group and engaging people from all over the web, I'm sorry that they banned you so quickly... There is probably some leftover hurt feelings from the early days of the Sondors area here on EBR when people weren't following rules and were temporarily moderated for making personal attacks, unfortunately most of those individuals never decided to return, maybe someday

I really appreciate open feedback here from everyone, it's great to have lower priced options available to the market but there are obvious tradeoffs with the limited 30 day warranty, self-assembly and cheaper parts. I'll be doing my best to complete a fair and comprehensive review soon. A bigger theme I'm interested in promoting with regard to crowd funded ebikes is something like "is this the right platform for you" when you have the option to get a Wave or Sondors / RadRover. Understanding the product might help to justify which type of ebike is the best for your needs and then you can adjust on price within that category... fat, cruiser, road, folding etc.

 

[PowerMe]

Good strategy, @Court. You may also want to include a short blurb in your review of "are you prepared to take a risk by going the crowdfunding route to get your ebike?" The risks are that there is no guarantee of getting the very thing the funder is helping to fund, there is no guarantee what the end product will be like, and there is no guarantee that one's contribution can or will be refunded if one has buyer's remorse. This is certainly true on the IGG CF platform. KS is a little better, but there are still risks.

 

[ebikedelight]

I think we need to first congratulate Mr Sondors for being able to mass produce a affordable electric fatbike for the masses. The era of overpriced electric bicycles may be coming closer to a end, due to Sondors efforts.

I build electric bicycles and have some fairly decent knowledge on them. It is important for any person to evaluate what they want/ expect from their ebike while also applying those needs to each persons specific conditions { their bodyweight , height, riding conditions , travel distance needed, etc} .

A perfect example, is Court. He weighs around 135 lbs { which is way below average weight of a grown adult in America} . For a person like Court, the Sondors ebike may have plenty of speed power but for a person who weighs 230 lbs, it may be severely underpowered. I think the Sondors ebike represents a great value..for the RIGHT PERSON. I could never use it, because I weigh 230 lbs and have to ride up several large hilly roads, therefore it would be a waste of money for me.

On another note, lets say you were 1 of the first backers of the Sondors ebike , and got it for $800 shipped. If you are willing to take some time and learn about buying a ebike kit , a battery and a fatbike , you can easily build your own electric fatbike for around $900 , and it will BLOW AWAY, the sondors ebike in terms of speed , battery capacity , distance ,etc. I will give you a example .

Mongoose Dolomite fatbike from walmart- $199 new
48 volt - 1000 watt brushless hub motor with 25-30 amp controller - off ebay new for $199
48 volt - 20 AH lifepo4 battery + charger- new off ebay - $450

The above setup, will reach speeds around 30 mph with a 200 lb person and cover distances much greater then the Sondors ebike, because the battery capacity is much larger then Sondors battery.

Lets also keep in mind, that things like " bottle holders , leather grips, fancy reflectors ,etc" really don't make a ebike much better, and you can get those things very cheaply off ebay, if you wish to add them to your ebike. Do not allow corporations to OVERCHARGE you for those silly additions .

 

[ebikedelight]

By the way....the example I gave of the electric Dolomite that can be built for around $900, is from my real world experiences. I built one for my wife and she loves it. She weighs around 165 lbs , and it has more then enough speed/power and capacity for her . She regularly makes trips of 25 + miles on our hilly roads and has plenty of battery power leftover. It seems that with most of these prebuilt ebikes , they are lacking in 2 main areas :

1. Motor power { low wattage/ low voltage}
2. Battery power { low amp hours- capacity- low voltage}

I think a 36 volt - 15 A/H battery and 500 watt brushless D.D. hub motor , should be the minimum most people need unless you weigh under 140 lbs , don't plan on covering many miles and don't mind doing a lot of pedal assist.

For my bodyweight of 230 lbs , and my hilly road conditions , a 1000 watt motor and 48 volt- 20amp hour battery are minimum

 

[ebikedelight]

Hopefully , this sondors ebike will do for the ebike what the model T ford did for the car industry. ....by supplying a low priced but fairly dependable
ebike to the masses. There is no more need for any ebike, with similar performance specs as the sondors , to be priced at $1200 or more.

 

[pxpaulx]

Hopefully , this sondors ebike will do for the ebike what the model T ford did for the car industry. ....by supplying a low priced but fairly dependable
ebike to the masses. There is no more need for any ebike, with similar performance specs as the sondors , to be priced at $1200 or more.

this is still a $1k to $1200 bike in a retail environment. it is just a question of whether it would sell on a showroom floor. to be honest when i went looking last year, trying the entry level bikes along side the easy motion bikes made me buy the easy motion. it may make sense to carry low end bikes, you either sell them at volume and also lead to potentially higher end sales based on comparison shopping. there is definitely room in the market for both.

 

[George S.]

this is still a $1k to $1200 bike in a retail environment. it is just a question of whether it would sell on a showroom floor. to be honest when i went looking last year, trying the entry level bikes along side the easy motion bikes made me buy the easy motion. it may make sense to carry low end bikes, you either sell them at volume and also lead to potentially higher end sales based on comparison shopping. there is definitely room in the market for both.

@Crazy Lenny Ebikes says his top seller is a basic bike that goes for around $1000, an EG or something. He's been selling a lot of ebikes, as I recall. I'd rather go with a BD frame, just looking at Walmart bikes as a comp. I'd rather bump up to a MAC or BBS02. But really, a standard rear hub with a 750 watt rating is a pretty good motor. The penalty for LiFePo is weight and size, but it's safe, unlike LiPo.

Some people said Storm couldn't go off to Asia and come back with a decent bike. I don't know what the argument was, maybe that it took European companies running the factories or something. But the BBS02 and MACs are pretty great motors.

I'd like to know where kits will end up in the Cal rules. Generally, lawmakers give people a pass, somewhat, as builders. That's true with airplanes. I hope that happens with ebikes. You still would have the limits, but maybe you could self-certify the bikes or something. I agree with @ebikedelight that kits are the place to be. I don't like CF campaigns. I wish there was a lot more stuff on Ebay, and I hope AliExpress gets some vendors we know and trust.

 

[J.R.]

AliExpress gets some vendors we know and trust.

I'm curious what will be the fallout from the crash of the Chinese stock market. It's lost about a third of it's value in three months and it's still in free-fall. That will hurt AliExpress. As you say we need the vendors we know and trust!

 

[ebikedelight]

In the beginning, I almost went with a mid-drive BBS02, but after lots of research , it seemed it had numerous problems/ complaints about failures along with the extra stress on chains/ gears, etc. Its also expensive . In the end, the simplicity and low cost of direct drive brushless hub motors won out . These motors have advanced significantly in the past few years, to the point that they should have more then enough speed and power for the majority of ebike users . Theres no need for most people to pay $550 for a BBS02 kit...when you can get a low turn leaf hub motor for less money, and still get plenty of power/ torque.

 

[George S.]

I'm curious what will be the fallout from the crash of the Chinese stock market. It's lost about a third of it's value in three months and it's still in free-fall. That will hurt AliExpress. As you say we need the vendors we know and trust!

Well, I don't know, but right now it means more stimulus, trying to keep the factories humming. More pressure to develop this consumer stuff, maintain growth. Very opaque place.

 

[ebikedelight]

I think the most appealing thing about the sondors ebike, is its looks . If it had been offered in different sizes { S-M-L } , I may have bought one, just based on looks alone and then modded it with a higher powered direct drive hub motor and better battery.

 

[Ann M.]

I think the most appealing thing about the sondors ebike, is its looks . If it had been offered in different sizes { S-M-L } , I may have bought one, just based on looks alone and then modded it with a higher powered direct drive hub motor and better battery.

Yeah, that lunchbox battery box is pretty slick! The bike would look like any other electric fatbike if the battery was just hanging out in the open.

 

[scmike]

ebikedelight wrote about power and range,
"A perfect example, is Court. He weighs around 135 lbs { which is way below average weight of a grown adult in America} . For a person like Court, the Sondors ebike may have plenty of speed power but for a person who weighs 230 lbs, it may be severely underpowered. I think the Sondors ebike represents a great value..for the RIGHT PERSON. I could never use it, because I weigh 230 lbs and have to ride up several large hilly roads, therefore it would be a waste of money for me."

Good point, the ave. US male weighs almost 195 lbs... so for a more realistic review, Court should add 60 lbs of weights and distribute them appropriately as to not throw off his center of gravity... Or he can start eating a lot of ice cream, fatty fast foods... etc. ... like the rest of us apparently...

 

[scmike]

Where are all these "Sondors first impressions" ... So far there has been only one post, #3, wallywedge... Aren't there nearly 2000 of the most popular B/Y color combos out there now??? What's it gonna take... free ice cream?

 

[Adrian]

Where are all these "Sondors first impressions" ... So far there has been only one post, #3, wallywedge... Aren't there nearly 2000 of the most popular B/Y color combos out there now??? What's it gonna take... free ice cream?

I've seen several Sondors supporters bad-mouthing EBR on Endless Sphere so I wouldn't be surprised if they do they same on the closed group and elsewhere - which means few would be inclined to step into the "lions den".

 

[Llcjay]

Ebr is not thought of well on fb. Our closed group is about supporting each other not petty nonsense that accomplishes nothing.

Very impressed with the breadth of knowledge and the group attitude