Sondors Fact Finding. Due Diligence. Scrutiny.

J.R. said:
That will take more reviewers. I realize Court buying a bike and doing a review benefits current buyers and gives notoriety to both Sondors and EBR, but that's very short sighted, it doesn't help the ebike industry in the US and puts no pressure on new bike brands to allow for impartial review of their product.
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@J.R.
I've noticed that Turbo Bob (on his blog) and Pete (Electric Bike Report) are not reviewing very much any more. Is the Sondors a special case. I mean, yikes, I had the Kickstarter page up while I was eating lunch and they clicked over $7,000 in sales.

So, once again, Storm will be in China. He knows how to play the game, over there. He'll have a huge amount of money. He'll get a better deal than anyone else.

I don't think you can call them developmental products, and stuff like sales tax could be a problem. But getting a pile of money upfront and then going and making a lot of the product does work well when it works. Give him that.

Court churns out an incredible volume of reviews, and exceptional interviews. It's interesting that he can just text Storm, a man who seems to have no public face at all.

I hope it somehow turns into a real information service, or profitable news service for Court.

Consumer Reports always pays for their products. I'm not as much of a fan of their reviews, and if you subscribe they bury you in junk mail.

I hope everyone who buys or builds a bike tosses in their impressions, especially after a few weeks or months. That can be pretty helpful.
 
J.R. said:
On 2, I'm sure it's easier, but claims by crowd-funding sites that "this is not a store" when you've had the kind of success that Sondors has had could draw a lot of unwanted attention by the tax man and regulators. You can't really claim it's not a store for V-2 after millions of dollars of success with V-1. Radrover went private after a successful campaign.

Speaking of Radrover, Court didn't have to purchase a bike for review. I look at EBR like I do MotorWeek, they do long-term and short-term reviews and evaluations without purchasing. With the maturity of both the ebike market in the US and EBR, quality ebike brands will want the scrutiny and notoriety of a Court review. That will take more reviewers. I realize Court buying a bike and doing a review benefits current buyers and gives notoriety to both Sondors and EBR, but that's very short sighted, it doesn't help the ebike industry in the US and puts no pressure on new bike brands to allow for impartial review of their product.
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The Radrover wasn't Mike Radenbaugh's first crowdfunding rodeo, and I'm sure it won't be his last - and I agree I prefer the way they conducted their transaction from start to finish. I like what they've done and what they are doing, and wish them the best. Sondors is definitely doing things differently. It is really just a middle man import on an item that happens to be a higher value unit than most other goods that are sold in that manner. In the end we are seeing that a lot of people are willing to put up with that rather than going direct through alibaba/aliexpress or paying top $ for a local shop (Crazy Lenny's being the exception!).

On your second point you're correct, he didn't buy a Radrover, but one didn't come to his door either. The auto industry is so much larger, established and entrenched with expectation and established sales that of course they can provide short and long term loaners for review - the ebike market in the US is so far from mature it isn't even funny! We were in Europe for a couple weeks at the end of August, I saw more ebikes on a daily basis (i.e. each day!) than I have ever seen in Minneapolis - ever - and this is a world top 20 bike friendly city that also has favorable ebike laws. The market is in its infancy here, no two ways about it.
 
Everyone can estimate that the true weight of the bike will be more with suspension forks; that's a given. Sondors has clarified that he can't clarify on an exact delivery date--not unusual working with an Asian manufacturing plant. There's a number of things that can happen when a shipment is refused at one of the ports in the US-- returned to the point of origination in China or if the docs and product in a container don't match possible destruction. That's in the US code. As for Australia, we all lack information as to why the shipments were really refused. The motor size may have been enough; however, this is hazy ground to walk on since in the US it only takes a little mistake on the papers to hold a shipment. (We'll keep digging as I'm sure, @FTC Complaint will also as this is a good question!)
 
J.R. said:
1.
3. @Court paying for a bike to review it, does that set a bad precedence?(We really ought to leave the 'presidents' out of this discussion! :D)Can EBR afford to do that with other brands?
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With a crowd funded item, it's the only way he gets one to review and it alleviates any question that he's getting a 'special' preview bike. He's just one of the guys! :)it's one of the quirks of the crowd funding system. Court can clarify how other bikes are obtained; however, if you look at a lot of his reviews, he has gone to a local shop somewhere in the US or Canada and borrowed one or more ebikes to test; some manufacturers ship a test bike or two to a shop for him to review which allows him more time with a product. A number of reviews are Court at a manufacturer's site in the US or Canada which gives him the opportunity to share his experiences both on the ebikes and provide an inside view of the company (the Faraday Review is a good example).
 
Ann M. said:
With a crowd funded item, it's the only way he gets one to review and it alleviates any question that he's getting a 'special' preview bike. He's just one of the guys! :)it's one of the quirks of the crowd funding system. Court can clarify how other bikes are obtained; however, if you look at a lot of his reviews, he has gone to a local shop somewhere in the US or Canada and borrowed one or more ebikes to test; some manufacturers ship a test bike or two to a shop for him to review which allows him more time with a product. A number of reviews are Court at a manufacturer's site in the US or Canada which gives him the opportunity to share his experiences both on the ebikes and provide an inside view of the company (the Faraday Review is a good example).
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Yes I'm well aware of how Court gets his reviews, but your conclusion about crowd-funded ebikes is not necessarily true! Enter Radrover... I feel it sets a bad precedent! Not that I think it will happen, but what if the vast majority of ebikes sold in the US follow this model? If there are 6 brands done like this in 2016, will EBR order and pay for 6 bikes? If not and they offer none for review, that could mean as many as 60,000 bikes to US consumers that EBR had nothing to do with. Not likely, but... The first one I stated no opinion and was interested in seeing the review, the second one could have been handled differently. Short sighted!
 
Last edited:
Some information on the Indiegogo site this evening..

Bryan Vroom
12 hours ago
READ ALL THAT FROM THE BOTTOM UP!!!!!!!!

Bryan Vroom
12 hours ago
Thank you everyone and keep riding!

Team Go Sondors
[email protected]

Bryan Vroom
12 hours ago
Sondors Owners’ Club: As most of you know, we’ve launched a new crowdfunding campaign and have added new upgrades, including front suspension forks and a higher-capacity battery. Well, we are going to be offering those, along with Fenders and a few more options very soon. In fact, we’ll be rolling out a few test accounts to a few random Sondors owners over the next week. If you get the email, please take a look and flag any questions you may have to [email protected].

Bryan Vroom
12 hours ago
Extra Battery Refunds: All customers that paid by Paypal have been refunded (check your spam if you haven’t received this email). The credit card customers are receiving checks from Chase bill pay and we are working to complete this over the next week.
Australia / New Zealand: We are currently working with Indiegogo to find the best solution for refunds as Chase bill pay is not an option for international.

Bryan Vroom
12 hours ago
Extra Batteries: The first 400 were already sent out. If you have not received an extra battery yet, you are in the second wave of batteries. More batteries are coming over in the containers with Wave 2 bikes and we should have a more definitive timeline in the next week.

Bryan Vroom
12 hours ago
Wave 2: Word on the street is that there are already a few containers loaded up and about to leave China. Storm is currently in China overseeing production.

LCD Displays: These were supposed to get shipped September 18 from China, but we ran into a packaging issue which has delayed this a few days. Word is that they are leaving China any day now. We will work to update you within the week.

Bryan Vroom
12 hours ago
john.volz Email infogosondors.com
It will take a couple of weeks for them to get back to you, but they will!
 
wa5 said:
Some information on the Indiegogo site this evening..

Bryan Vroom
12 hours ago
READ ALL THAT FROM THE BOTTOM UP!!!!!!!!

Bryan Vroom
12 hours ago
Thank you everyone and keep riding!

Team Go Sondors
[email protected]

Bryan Vroom
12 hours ago
Sondors Owners’ Club: As most of you know, we’ve launched a new crowdfunding campaign and have added new upgrades, including front suspension forks and a higher-capacity battery. Well, we are going to be offering those, along with Fenders and a few more options very soon. In fact, we’ll be rolling out a few test accounts to a few random Sondors owners over the next week. If you get the email, please take a look and flag any questions you may have to [email protected].

Bryan Vroom
12 hours ago
Extra Battery Refunds: All customers that paid by Paypal have been refunded (check your spam if you haven’t received this email). The credit card customers are receiving checks from Chase bill pay and we are working to complete this over the next week.
Australia / New Zealand: We are currently working with Indiegogo to find the best solution for refunds as Chase bill pay is not an option for international.

Bryan Vroom
12 hours ago
Extra Batteries: The first 400 were already sent out. If you have not received an extra battery yet, you are in the second wave of batteries. More batteries are coming over in the containers with Wave 2 bikes and we should have a more definitive timeline in the next week.

Bryan Vroom
12 hours ago
Wave 2: Word on the street is that there are already a few containers loaded up and about to leave China. Storm is currently in China overseeing production.

LCD Displays: These were supposed to get shipped September 18 from China, but we ran into a packaging issue which has delayed this a few days. Word is that they are leaving China any day now. We will work to update you within the week.

Bryan Vroom
12 hours ago
john.volz Email infogosondors.com
It will take a couple of weeks for them to get back to you, but they will!
Click to expand...

Who's Bryan Vroom, is he/she with Sondors? And, is there really word on the street anymore?/
 
wa5 said:
Has the Efneo three speed front hub shipped yet?
Click to expand...
Apparently not:

Dear Contributors,

As you probably remember, at manufacturing launch process we had an issue with our satellite-gear blocks. The good news we have overcome this issue and now we see that our sub-contractor's technology is fully compatible with our design. Moreover, we had a chance to do some extra tests and small amendments.

The bad news is that we have lost almost three months from our schedule and we cannot reclaim them. The satellite-block redesign required that we also redesigned a couple of small parts "around" satellite blocks, like axles etc. and they also need to be manufactured in a different way. This means the realistic time to begin deliveries is three months later than assumed - in November.
 
Anyone who bought the Efneo is a true believer. Those gears and blocks will be the highest stressed parts on the bicycle. The backers are the alpha testers, maybe beta testers... Don't think people realize that.
 
Credit to Bruce Choate, even he thought a web store would be more appropriate, this won't end well - as for the European customers who were shipped bikes with motors illegal for road use, this is contrary to the information I was given that the motor would be modified, but who is there to blame? A well-intentioned volunteer on one forum or another?
 
oh gawd more mud slinging. There are many bikes and bike kits sold that exceed the federal limit on power and or speed. It's the responsibility of the buyer to understand local laws , whether in Europe or New York.

Sondors is just the ebike story of the year. Get over it
 
Time to move on. This thread has proven to be a witch hunt fueled by some very strange fanatical TROLLS. Every thing they said was false made up not even close to accurate. Most of you should be ashamed of yourselves 7 months bashing Storm for nothing. The bikes were delivered the specs turned out to be better than advertised. Even the claimed 50 miles on a charge turned out to be true. Why this is still here is a mystery. This was a crowd funding campaing that for the most part delivered on what they said they would. Not many if any campaigns can claim the same success. Yet month after month 3 or 4 of you bashed this campaign for nothing LOL how sad to be you. And yes time for the TROLLS to eat crow anf MOVE ON.
 
If there are any genuine potential sondors bike buyers on the fence who would like some input from a real backer, owner of round 1..... pm me please. Happy to provide my experience, which has been a good one.
A 205lb 47 yr old with a knee injury can travel 18 miles @ 17mph avg with pedal assist and rehab my knee and get exercise too boot. I've since added a $250 FWD dir drive motor kit, for a better off-road experience.
cheers.
 
I'm very happy that people have been and are enjoying their ebikes. Much of the bashing was for naught. Even some of those who were determined to hate the bike ended up liking it when they received theirs. The various mods that people are adding are interesting and creative. Good going!
 
wa5 - good read indeed.

I can say for "ME".... the sondors ebike is what sucked me into ebiking, and now I'm hooked with a stealth bomber on order, and a lightning rods sm-block mid-drive with luna cycle battery in the works.
I just bought my wife a sonders 2nd campaign bike as well.

I'm not sure about all the ethics writing.... if it's not against the law, then I'm not sure what all the hoop-la is about... perhaps the ebike community is a wee bit sensitive :)
 
part deux... the bit about risk dealing direct with china is unfounded from my experience..... you can buy direct (I have for yrs for remote control car stuff, and now ebike stuff) for low low pricing.... and I've had very good success with fast shipping and expected quality. The notion that china has bad quality/service is not applicable these days after the massive ind revolution china has made in the past 20 yrs....... if you have ever been to beijing, it is every bit as "modern chic" as NY, LA, ETc... etc...... the us ebike re-sellers will have to deal with lower margins as people understand the power of buying direct from the mfr of these low priced goods.
 
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