Sondors Fact Finding. Due Diligence. Scrutiny.

[FTC Complaint]

About 50 people already did on the facebook post where I saw it - people love pointing out user errors

I view it as a humorous matter of "irony" as it evokes feelings of cynicism, mockery, and vindication as enthusiastic "assembler number one" was just spared "the consequences" of having his rake and trail, steering, and braking effected.

Not to say that, none of us know to what extent (or even) if the geometry of the bike was a design consideration of any kind. Geometry, the pesky process of expertise, research, design and testing undertaken or known by bicycle companies large and small.

It proves out that there will be errors made assembly, and that folks are once again going to be trying to fill in a vacuum; the same vacuum we saw in relation to post sales communication. It is sort of a remake of LORD OF THE FLIES.

“This is our island. It's a good island. Until the grownups come to fetch us we'll have fun.”
― William Golding, Lord of the Flies

 

[EULITTLB]

@ Hurley - good post, someone needs to put Ryans' dummy back in. August maybe September delivery for him and others, if at all.

First to get those bikes should have been the bike press.

 

[J.R.]

First to get those bikes should have been the bike press.

That wouldn't have gone over well with the campaign financial backers. Getting a final prototype to the press prior to campaign launch would have been best.

 

[Credible Hulk]

would be nice to see some owners who are getting bikes join up here and post their initial and ongoing impressions, would do the bike a lot of service over some of the negativity (from both sides). perhaps it is time to start a new bike impressions thread in this sub forum.

I think this is a good idea. Posts with reviews, questions or experiences from people who are receiving their Sondors ebikes should be in a separate thread. I'm sure they're very happy to have their bikes and wouldn't appreciate the "letdown" of others discussing their concerns about the campaign. It's also outside the scope of this thread IMO.

You could also have a thread where people can post pics of their new bikes.

 

[FTC Complaint]

Please Read This Update:

Have questions? Check out the Owners Group on Facebook that was started by backers for backers. With nearly 900 members, there is a wealth of knowledge to tap into. Here’s the link to join.

Lord of the flies it is!

PLEASE NOTE:

If you are not familiar with assembling bicycles then it is STRONGLY recommended that you take your Sondors electric bike to a local bike shop. Most shops will be able to assemble and make any necessary adjustments for your new bike for a small fee. That said, if you are familiar with bike assembly, please refer to this BLOG POST as a preliminary guideline for the Sondors electric bike.

Here we go; most bike shops I spoke to as part of my own business due diligence want NOTHING to do with ebikes and they want nothing to do with cheap bikes. Nor do they want to take a small amount of money from you in exchange for huge liability.

We are back to the need to post-sales support, and product liability insurance.

---

"'Kill the beast! Cut his throat! Spill his blood!, [The boys] found themselves eager to take a place in this demented but partly secure society. They were glad to touch the brown backs of the fence that hemmed in the terror [of the makeshift beast] and made it governable." Lord of the flies aka the Storm buyers group on Facebook

 

[Credible Hulk]

I view it as a humorous matter of "irony" as it evokes feelings of cynicism, mockery, and vindication as enthusiastic "assembler number one" was just spared "the consequences" of having his rake and trail, steering, and braking effected.

I'm concerned about what's going to happen to customers who genuinely need help and haven't the first clue about ebikes or bicycle assembly. I have over 20 years of tech support and customer service experience, so I know what I'm talking about.

We're dealing with two organizations (Ivars & IGG) which have a documented history of treating their customers like they wouldn't piss on them if they were on fire. Now they have entrusted the job of post-sales support to their cadre of paid astroturfer trolls, who've previously been paid to viciously attack anyone who asks questions or has concerns. Also, it's being done via a Facebook page where someone who isn't an expert or makes a mistake gets publicly lambasted. I don't see a shred of humour in that.

This is not going to end well for customers who need help - especially if anyone gets injured or killed trying to ride an incorrectly assembled or faulty ebike.

 

[PowerMe]

I'm concerned about what's going to happen to customers who genuinely need help and haven't the first clue about ebikes or bicycle assembly.

If they're like me they will do some calling around to inquire about getting service for the "bike only" portion, as well as assembly assistance. I ended up going with a local scooter shop since it is a very small shop and the owner is excited about the technology. I had my ebike shipped directly to his shop for assembly. When it was time for my 100 mi tune-up, back I went.

 

[FTC Complaint]

This is not going to end well for customers who need help - especially if anyone gets injured or killed trying to ride an incorrectly assembled or faulty ebike.

One of the bike shops I worked with has a repair staff of ten people working full time. I was able through a working relationship to exchange quite a bit of information.

The refuse to work on any bike with cheap components. Because cheap stuff is harder to repair!

They were totally burned by "an earlier wave of ebikes that they sold to customers directly that proved unsupportable."
They just don't understand ebikes, and don't know where to start.
They don't want the liability?
They don't need the business.

I was there when a person brought in a Currie Eflow Nito and the owner, the shop, and I agreed together to take a look at it on a lark. A half hour into it, we found a loose wire on an XLR connector charge port two feet down the seat post (where the battery is suspended by a coiled springy wire and soldered it on). That high quality bike was a nightmare! At the end of the day the customer has someone to call, Currie! They have someone to return the bike to; Currie! They have someone to sue. Lord of the Flies it is, time to eat Piggy.

 

[Credible Hulk]

If they're like me they will do some calling around to inquire about getting service for the "bike only" portion, as well as assembly assistance. I ended up going with a local scooter shop since it is a very small shop and the owner is excited about the technology. I had my ebike shipped directly to his shop for assembly. When it was time for my 100 mi tune-up, back I went. And I will continue to use his shop. I'm not mechanically-inclined beyond putting air in the tires and adjusting my seat height and bar height.

And so far, it has worked out pretty well. The thing is to treat the 'bike' part as just a bike. Most people can understand that. My local shop charges $60/hr, so it was $60 for assembly and less than $60 for it's first tune-up. It doesn't matter what moniker is on the bike. A bike shop willing to work on "others' bikes" can work on the Sonders bike, if they just ignore the motor part of it if that makes them nervous.

I understand your point. I chose my scooter in large part because the dealer is nearby and willing to stand behind their products and work. I'm lucky enough to live in a city that has plenty of ebike shops to choose from. Unfortunately there will be a lot of Sondors customers who don't. Or if they're able to find a shop to work on their bike, that shop will charge top dollar because of the liability. And what will they do for parts?

There will be many customers who are complete newbies and won't think to ask shops to repair "the bike part" only. If they can't find a shop they will try to fix it on their own, potentially a disaster in the making. If I ran a bike shop and had no knowledge of electric bikes, I'd be pretty reluctant to touch them as well. Especially if it's made by a fly by night outfit that doesn't provide a warranty, doesn't support its own customers, and definitely won't answer technical questions from repair shops. At the very least, Sondors should be offering phone support for these bikes. Too bad for the customers.

 

[Credible Hulk]

Somehow I was able to get my ebike assembled AND serviced. (...)

That's entirely irrelevant to a Sondors customer who has no local shop to help them and has been dumped by Ivars and his Merry Trolls.

People love to make things harder than they have to be. A bit of initiative and resourcefulness makes life sweeter. Sure, I could have whined and pouted about how there is no local support for my particular ebike manufacturer. And in the end I'd still need to figure it out. If I wanted an ebike (which I most certainly did), I'd need to figure out the support/maintenance piece of it.

You're judging other people by your own standards, which is futile. "I could do it so they should be able to" is a lame logical fallacy.

The only ones making things harder than they have to be are Ivars and his hired trolls. Things would be easier if they provided even a modicum of customer support, either by email or phone. Instead they use their dodgy marketing Facebook page trolls, whose demonstrated customer service skills include public shaming, bullying, ridiculing and throwing people out of their little playpen - all for asking questions. Ironic much? That reflects badly on Ivars, who is the author of this situation - not his customers.

If you were in the exact same position as a Sondors customer and ran into a problem, after buying it as your first ebike, your attitude might not be so glib.

 

[Hurley]

 

[FTC Complaint]

whose demonstrated ... public shaming, bullying, ridiculing and throwing people out of their little playpen - all for asking questions. Ironic much? That reflects badly on Ivars, who is the author of this situation - not his customers.

Ivars is projecting his responsibility onto his customers; in this case he assigned responsibility to a bunch of ignorant-cult-bullies. Lord of the Flies it is.

“I believe man suffers from an appalling ignorance of his own nature. I produce my own view in the belief that it may be something like the truth.”
― William Golding, Lord of the Flies

The backwards bike fork of Storm User One is just the start of this debacle.

 

[EULITTLB]

That wouldn't have gone over well with the campaign financial backers. Getting a final prototype to the press prior to campaign launch would have been best.

There never was a finished article in Feb 2015, everything has changed, some things for the better, but the claims would have quickly been exposed as hollow. There was good reason Sondors didn't want any professional reviewer to review that bike pre-launch. Now where were that series of demo days taking place again........?

 

[FTC Complaint]

Ian, your http://www.gofundme.com campaign was just too funny. Crowd funding insider used the same picture as the poster-boy for this campaign without knowing the bike was assembled incorrectly. They had this to say, "It also came to light that Sondors had previously received a fraud conviction along with an associated fine that has never been paid. These questions caused some backers to doubt the veracity of the project while others worried as to whether their perks would ever arrive. While the legal proceedings may remain a festering issue for Storm Sondors, most backers are only concerned about receiving their eBikes. On that issue things are starting to look pretty good."

 

[EULITTLB]

Glad it raised a smile - Josh was Pm'ing me through my FB page abusing me and then sent me a photo of his bike after he had corrected his mistake with a turd on the lawn, saying it was for me. Let's face it, if I received an ebike I wouldn't give a stuff about whether anyone else got one or what happened to the Campaign, but for Ryan Mercer to post that his bike is 1520 on the production line and hasn't even been made is worrying..... Jingle Bells, jingle bells, snow is falling... oh my ebike is here....... I hope!

 

[FTC Complaint]

I would be interested in more info about the bike; what motor? Assembly of the battery... what cells what electronics etc.

 

[PowerMe]

You're judging other people by your own standards, which is futile. "I could do it so they should be able to" is a lame logical fallacy.

Not at all. I'm saying I was in the same spot. I had to get someone else to assemble my ebike. I could not do it myself as I have neither the tools nor the knowledge, so I looked around to find someone who was qualified and willing to work on the bike portion of my ebike and went that route. There's nothing magical about what I did.

 

[EULITTLB]

but for now I will leave you with lyrics from THE BOXER

a man hears what he wants to hear and disregards the rest

 

[J.R.]

There never was a finished article in Feb 2015, everything has changed, some things for the better, but the claims would have quickly been exposed as hollow. There was good reason Sondors didn't want any professional reviewer to review that bike pre-launch. Now where were that series of demo days taking place again........?

Shame you couldn't just say I agree, without all that convoluted text getting in the way!

 

[EULITTLB]

I agree

Subject to the terms and reservations as expressed above but not in finality and herein can be referred to thereafter in abbreviated terms, notwithstanding context so help me Lord