Sondors Fact Finding. Due Diligence. Scrutiny.

Brambor said:
clicked on the link you gave ... amazing. not sure what the reality is but from the postings the dude seems to be doing it all singlehandedly.
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as did Tucker and a few others, to make 47 "production " Torpedo's :)

Excuse my cynicism, this does appear to be good news for the funders

Would really like to see some pictures of finished bikes, and pictures of the batteries.
 
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People were asking for pictures of proof of production, they got it. People were asking for proof in pictures of their bikes being made, being loaded and being shipped and they got it. Videos and pictures have become more numerous lately and that at the very least is a sign of good faith on Mr. Sondors part.

Much much better than nothing.
 
wa5 said:
I based my thoughts on the vision from the production video, also from Biknut / Theodore Voltaires' comments on Endless sphere in which he claims that the facility building these bikes can make 1 million per annum.
The production Video. seemed to be moving far more slowly than I felt it should, Of course it may have been during "ramp up" phase, this weeks production speed may be far faster.

looking at the latest update on Go Sondors they would appear to be shipping something

http://gosondors.com

The cynic in me sees hundreds of Boxes, not hundreds of Ebikes, Given that we have already seen most parts for the Bike. I'd take it on faith that they aren't full of hot air :)
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So true, hundreds of boxes gives no proof of what is contained inside.
 
The proof will be when the container lands in port, all the bikes are off loaded and delivered to each customer, until then it is all speculation. Part of me says Sondors will deliver as promised.
 
FTC Complaint said:
I don't think delivering a bike is at issue.
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It might be for the International funders?

"For those INTERNATIONAL contributors (outside the USA and Canada):Unfortunately, we cannot proceed with your Wave Electric Bike order. We have had countless conversations and correspondence with customs and various governmental agencies in your country and it has become prohibitive and a huge liability to even attempt to send your bikes and their various accessories to your country. We attempted many, many times to get your local country to understand the electric bike market, but they don't seem to be cooperative. Their main concerns are the lithium-ion batteries and the top-speed of the bike. As far as your contributions, every backer with Indiegogo assumes all risk and it is a buyers beware system with crowd funding, HOWEVER, we have decided to refund 100% of your contributions because it's the right thing to do and we hope it will at least take the sting out of this bad news. The refunds are currently in progress as we have to coordinate with Paypal and Indiegogo. Furthermore, we encourage all of you to write letters to your various governments to have them re-evaluate their stance on electric bikes and become more progressive!"

Probably a low percentage of International buyers however so if there are issues it shouldn't hurt too badly. Kudos to Wave though for their due diligence and offer of full refunds.
 
Anyone find the pictures of the bikes in boxes on the back of that trailer.

Why shows some boxes on pallets and banded together and the ones on the truck appear to be loose, lightly stacked, with no bands and no pallets. Why bring a forklift with boxes that have straps and pallets then show boxes loosely stack with neither...?????????

I find this odd to say the least...If they go to the trouble of putting the bikes in boxes on pallets then triple banding them why remove it to load it on the trucking trailer??????????
 
A prudent person at this point would sit back and watch.

Better to remain silent and be thought a fool than to speak out and remove all doubt.
Abraham Lincoln
 
What I find odd is suddenly a truck full of bikes appears after that silly "assembly line" video. They certainly did not produce a whole truck load of bikes on that conveyor belt?

A number of photos of the boxes, but no pics of the bikes being put in the boxes, no photos of the bikes coming off the assembly line. I don't have a theory, but it's just strange.
 
wa5 said:
I based my thoughts on the vision from the production video, also from Biknut / Theodore Voltaires' comments on Endless sphere in which he claims that the facility building these bikes can make 1 million per annum.
The production Video. seemed to be moving far more slowly than I felt it should, Of course it may have been during "ramp up" phase, this weeks production speed may be far faster.

looking at the latest update on Go Sondors they would appear to be shipping something

http://gosondors.com

The cynic in me sees hundreds of Boxes, not hundreds of Ebikes, Given that we have already seen most parts for the Bike. I'd take it on faith that they aren't full of hot air :)
Click to expand...

We are only seeing one warehouse in what is most likely a datum of similar buildings ask running various stages of production for multiple companies. The statement made by sondors about being able to produce thousands of bikes per day would be the factory as a whole, clearly not the sondors bike specifically! By the photos and video it seems a lot of production is off site, and we are only seeing assembly before shipping for the most part.
 
Production off-site makes a lot of sense. I wonder if Sondors himself has actually seen a completed Sondors ebike. :p
 
stevenast said:
What I find odd is suddenly a truck full of bikes appears after that silly "assembly line" video. They certainly did not produce a whole truck load of bikes on that conveyor belt?

A number of photos of the boxes, but no pics of the bikes being put in the boxes, no photos of the bikes coming off the assembly line. I don't have a theory, but it's just strange.
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I don't see any issues with a small assembly line being able to produce a containers worth of products in a day or so.

The issues of "clearing international customs," having the money to produce all the bikes, and the litany of business concerns (PL insurance, post sales customer support to include repair and warranty, certification-testing-quality-safety) just about sums up all the major delivery issues. Representations versus actualities are another previous concern.

We know that Chinese manufactures can produce ebikes. From my experience, they are none too happy to provide credit! The folks are more "savvy" than Agency 2.0!

How you can "produce your own news" via a press release;

http://www.virtual-strategy.com

And, the K15 bamboo ebike "Crowdfund" I wonder if we can put a nuclear reactor in it and call it the K19 bike? It is from "Ev world and is the lightest ebike at 15 pounds"

http://evworld.com

(Link Removed - No Longer Exists)
 
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Re the International shipping and requirements. Bear in mind, Canadians were charged for "international" shipping by Sondors et. al. so we could fall under that classification when it comes to regulatory compliance. Anyone outside the US should check the regulations in their jurisdiction.

Here, there are federal requirements for ebikes. If they're not met, the ebike is not legal to be ridden anywhere. In addition, there are provincial rules. Will these ebikes clear Customs if they don't meet the requirements? If they do clear, then the owner will still have to spend the extra money to get their ebike up to spec before they can ride it.

Requirements:
  • Electric motor with power of less than 500W
  • Capable of being propelled by muscular power
  • Pedelec - When engaged by muscular power it must cease assistance when muscular power ceases
  • Accelerator control e-bikes - power must cease when braking
  • Incapable of providing assistance above 20 miles per hour (32 km/h) (motor must be modified to prevent speeds above 20 mph)
  • Has a permanent label in English and French stating the vehicle is a power-assisted bicycle (specific label design, not just any label)
  • The ebike must have one of the following safety features:
    (i) an enabling mechanism to turn the electric motor on and off that is separate from the accelerator controller and fitted in such a manner that it is operable by the driver.
    (ii) a mechanism that prevents the motor from being engaged before the bicycle attains a speed of 3 km/h
 
The legal standard to which the product will be judged;

Manufacturing defects are defects that occur during the product’s manufacturing or production process, which make the products more dangerous to use than expected.

--Did he do any testing, or independent lab testing of frame, battery, and whole product?

Marketing defects involve improper of insufficient instruction of safe product use and lack of or inadequate safety labels or warnings that fail to notify the consumer of latent dangers of the product.

--Will he be providing a product with instruction documents and warnings?

The most common basis of product liability cases is strict liability. Strict liability is a legal principal that only requires products liability lawyers representing the injured person to prove it is a defective product. If the product caused injury, the designer, manufacturer and/or supplier is liable regardless if they took great care or engaged in misconduct.

--Who are you going to be able to sue? Where is the product liability insurance?

Products liability lawyers representing the injured person can also file a case of products liability on a basis of negligence. In this type of products liability claim, not only must products liability lawyers prove it is a defective product, but also that the product’s manufacturers or other parties failed in their duty to the customer by not taking reasonable care in the design, manufacture or inspection process to prevent the injury of the consumer during foreseeable product use.

Read a Trek manual and you will find instructions on how to use the product, inspect the frame, and how the product must not be used. On a fat ebike these considerations would even be more important.

Why has the press, failed to ask any questions?
 
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There are provisions in the import laws that allow for single 'test/demo' product or an item that is not for re-sale, thus sliding past some of the protective limiters that you both mention. @Credible Hulk and @FTC Complaint , it might be that our Chinese import savvy Sonders is utilizing this loophole given that every bike represents an individual sale and supposedly involves only the manufacturing plant and the investor.
 
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