Sondors Fact Finding. Due Diligence. Scrutiny.

wa5 said:
http://gosondors.com/

still appears to be maintaining the lies about range and charge time...
Click to expand...

From his website: "This will allow us to reduce the overall cost of the bike and the shipping cost directly to you"
http://gosondors.com

I was trying to reconcile the shipping cost per bike which seemed expensive. Based on this comment taken from the website it now appears (to me) that the shipping charge is from the factory in China to the individual buyer. If you read the question and answer section I'm reasonably certain that he won't be taking delivery of the bikes in the USA, he essentially is buying as a distributor.

He did mention bicycles for the "masses", and if you want inexpensive bikes for the "masses" you go to China, where the "masses" all ride inexpensive bikes.

Court J.
 
Someone should start cataloging the claims from all the eBike manufacturers, starting with the more expensive models.

Because when you start judging these people, the cost of their lies gets progressively larger when the bike is $4000 on up.

Who is the greater victim, the one who drops $4000 to $6000 on an eBike that goes 20 mph and finds out they've been deceived, or the one who buys a $500 eBike that goes 20 mph and finds out they've been deceived?

Who is going to suffer the greatest financial loss when they try to repair or sell their eBike? The owner of the $6000 model that is now worth $3000, or the $500 model that is now worth $250?

The answer is pretty clear. It's just an ebike, and paying 10x more doesn't get you anything close to 10x the bike.
 
PoweredUp! said:
The answer is pretty clear. It's just an ebike, and paying 10x more doesn't get you anything close to 10x the bike.
Click to expand...

Well said....you can end up with a very high quality ebike for much less then $6,000, more like 1,500-1,700. But I've yet to see a $500 ebike that performs well. In the end you do get what you pay for.

Court J.
 
It's a crappy ebike, similar to Walmart junk that ends up in a landfill within a couple of years.

Are people really serious with using their bike as alternative transportation? Because these cheap chinese bikes aren't going to do it. I think this shows lack of planning or lack of committment to use alternative transportation.

We pride ourselves in being the greatest country but we cheapskate ourselves into looking like 3rd world countries.

We should demand the best and focus on the best and expose unfair pricing of the best to reduce prices for the best.


PoweredUp! said:
Someone should start cataloging the claims from all the eBike manufacturers, starting with the more expensive models.

Because when you start judging these people, the cost of their lies gets progressively larger when the bike is $4000 on up.

Who is the greater victim, the one who drops $4000 to $6000 on an eBike that goes 20 mph and finds out they've been deceived, or the one who buys a $500 eBike that goes 20 mph and finds out they've been deceived?

Who is going to suffer the greatest financial loss when they try to repair or sell their eBike? The owner of the $6000 model that is now worth $3000, or the $500 model that is now worth $250?

The answer is pretty clear. It's just an ebike, and paying 10x more doesn't get you anything close to 10x the bike.
Click to expand...
 
you cant yet compare the sondors to anything, because as of right now, nothing but promises have been delivered.

PoweredUp, you point on diminishing returns is partially valid, is the 10x expensive bike 10x better? Probably not by that factor no, but generally speaking, it will be a better product than the $500 bike... But it will use better quality products. With or without the extra taxes on the Chinese bike, Ian Graces' BMW mid drive is still nowhere near 10 x more expensive, but it will be a vastly superior bike to the Sondors (if or when it shows up), Better batteries, smarter chargers and electrical management systems.. The old maxim still applies, "you get what you pay for".

Just saw a really good quote which seems really appropriate for this bike.. these are Mission Impossible bikes. Not only is it impossible to achieve the mission, they self destruct until you get the message.
 
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Looks like the igg days are numbered. Storm has already started on his webstore.

Sondors eBike
Didn’t get your Sondors eBike during the Indiegogo Campaign?

Isn't it still offered on IGG? It says "In Demand".

There's a lot going on here. This website smells of the original campaign, the pre-campaign, before they linked you over to IGG. They aren't 'selling' anything now, on this site, and they use the same weasel words about shipping costs that they used on the Sondo/IGG/IQ2.0 campaign. They say they are selling, but it's basically the crowdfund deal where you raise the money and then buy the bikes in China, direct ship to customers. Maybe Sondors thinks he can cut everyone out, except Sondo. Even IGG?

I like the page about the team. Who broke up the old gang? The team is one guy. How many teams have one guy?

http://gosondors.com

He's still using media stuff from Yahoo, Slashgear and EBR. In the blog section there are constant references to the IGG campaign. If this is a new, separate company, why bother?
 
I always wondered why they mentioned warehouses on both coasts... it's seemed obvious they would have to "direct ship" from the factory. Aren't you doing the same thing with Alibaba? My question is how and when are they (each country's customs dept.) going to collect their fees whatever they maybe? And when will this be known to the end buyer?
 
George S. said:
Court (EBR Court) owns one.

It's not exactly a cheap bike, at least in Europe. Someone put up the Customs Calculator for France

View attachment 2630

It's $1200 dollars, basically.
Click to expand...

Just a tip:

That screenshot comes from a third party website. I strongly urge anyone who wants to calculate their tax and duty to go directly to their government's customs website. Duty calculators don't take customs laws into account. For example, I found out on the Canadian customs site that individual (casual) importers qualify for a refund of some or all duties and taxes paid. They must fill out a form to apply. Also, in Canada no duty is charged on ebikes, but the third-party site calculated a duty. If in doubt you can always contact your government directly.
 
George S. said:
Looks like the igg days are numbered. Storm has already started on his webstore.

Sondors eBike
Didn’t get your Sondors eBike during the Indiegogo Campaign?

Isn't it still offered on IGG? It says "In Demand".

There's a lot going on here. This website smells of the original campaign, the pre-campaign, before they linked you over to IGG. They aren't 'selling' anything now, on this site, and they use the same weasel words about shipping costs that they used on the Sondo/IGG/IQ2.0 campaign. They say they are selling, but it's basically the crowdfund deal where you raise the money and then buy the bikes in China, direct ship to customers. Maybe Sondors thinks he can cut everyone out, except Sondo. Even IGG?

I like the page about the team. Who broke up the old gang? The team is one guy. How many teams have one guy?

http://gosondors.com

He's still using media stuff from Yahoo, Slashgear and EBR. In the blog section there are constant references to the IGG campaign. If this is a new, separate company, why bother?
Click to expand...

I guess the rumour about Hopp hopping was true?
First thing I noticed - they just lifted everything from IGG and pasted it into this website. Nothing has been edited, so there are plenty of references to "when the campaign is over". Hopefully they'll do some editing and (wishful thinking) update the stats to be closer to reality. If I were a potential first-time customer the biggest concern would be that all I can do to "reserve" (as they call it) is send them an email and wait for them to get back to me someday. No timeframe provided.

It's good that they're maintaining an online presence after IGG, but they need to clarify some of the details for customers.
 
Credible Hulk said:
Just a tip:

That screenshot comes from a third party website. I strongly urge anyone who wants to calculate their tax and duty to go directly to their government's customs website. Duty calculators don't take customs laws into account. For example, I found out on the Canadian customs site that individual (casual) importers qualify for a refund of some or all duties and taxes paid. They must fill out a form to apply. Also, in Canada no duty is charged on ebikes, but the third-party site calculated a duty. If in doubt you can always contact your government directly.
Click to expand...
Good point on the third party website, not the official. Not sure if they enforce this stuff or not. Here it seems like stuff from China just ends up at the Post Office and the Chinese seller has written 'Gift' on it. A whole bunch of bikes arriving at one time might attract a lot more attention.
 
5000 gifts... might raise some suspicion.. And will the gift be labeled hazardous material inside??
 
I guess if you ship lithium without going Hazmat it can be returned, within the Chinese mails. EM3EV has a lot of details on his shipping page. Does Sondo pack them all in a shipping container, run them down to the docks? You figure none of the shipping companies want 6,000 batteries in one container, packed together
 
(QUOTE From Theodore Voltaire at Endless fear... (Bikenut, not the cool guy from IGG).)...

You may be right, but there's never going to be a time when they ship 10,000 bikes, although it's actually more like 13,000. There's only about 7 or 8 thousand bikes in the first production run, and out of those, many are not bound for the U.S......

(END QUOTE)

Thirteen Thousand Bikes? really? I know the iggsite shows a little over 12000 funders, but it racks up a new funder each time a new tansaction is made.. IE if somebody took the layby option they would be counted as three funders, plus another for their shipping cost... so whats the real number of bikes that have been sold?
 
EULITTLB said:
My estimate, from shipping paid is about 5500 bikes sold, and they are making a hash of orders and colours with that much.
Click to expand...

I think it might be a little higher than that (thinking the average price including shipping is $750, multiple by 7,000 gets you to $5.2 Million), but it definitely isn't 12K bikes sold either way!
 
Paul all
You have to do is total the amount of shipping perks paid for and double or triple
Etc where appropriate - at 5500 at the moment, rest is insurance and batteries and cocks
Like me who did $1 lol
 
wa5 said:
(QUOTE From Theodore Voltaire at Endless fear... (Bikenut, not the cool guy from IGG).)...

You may be right, but there's never going to be a time when they ship 10,000 bikes, although it's actually more like 13,000. There's only about 7 or 8 thousand bikes in the first production run, and out of those, many are not bound for the U.S......

(END QUOTE)

Thirteen Thousand Bikes? really? I know the iggsite shows a little over 12000 funders, but it racks up a new funder each time a new tansaction is made.. IE if somebody took the layby option they would be counted as three funders, plus another for their shipping cost... so whats the real number of bikes that have been sold?
Click to expand...

I'd guess 7500. They were at 4 million before shipping fees were listed and started being paid, and most sales were at $500. There were some batteries and insurance. So say 8,000 for the 4 million at $500, knock off some bikes for sales at $600, a few more at $650, and the money for insurance and batteries.
 
Just for fun I totaled paid shipping perks (that's a stretch) and came up with 4518 bikes... So maybe? the campaign is only building bikes to be shipped in the first run that are paid in full??? Or could they be waiting until all bikes are paid in full to start production, who knows ???
 
And then there's the shipping cost for the batteries. Are they actually going to ship the battery in the same box with the ebike? Then there are those of us who perked a second battery - not one peep so far about shipping cost for that.
 
(QUOTE FROM INDIEGOGO SITE, UPDATE BY STORM SONDORS)
2 hours ago


Thank You and Congrats!

I am humbled and grateful for all of your support of the Sondors eBike! Without you, this wouldn’t have been possible so THANK YOU! And congrats, you helped make this the second most funded Indiegogo project of all time! Speaking of Indiegogo, I visited their offices this week and met with their CEO Slava Rubin as well as Ben Bateman (pictured) who played a crucial role in making this campaign happen on Indiegogo.



20150410093142-Sondors-Indiegogo.jpg



I’ve had and continue to have a wonderful experience with the Indiegogo team and am thankful for all that they’ve done. Definitely reach out to Ben if you have questions about running your own campaign.

What’s Next?

I’m happy to report that I’m headed back to work closely with the manufacturing team to be a part of the process along the way to ensure all goes smoothly.

Color Selection

Some of you have reported that you haven’t received the color selection email. Fear not. We’re going to be sending out another color selection update soon to ensure we have ALL selections and addresses correct. Stay tuned.

Support System

Also, as you can imagine, we’ve had lots of questions come in regarding shipping, payments, etc. and I want to assure you that we’re putting a system in place through Zendesk to ensure we answer everyone’s questions ASAP! We’ll be sharing the link to the support system shortly.

Thank you so much all and I can’t wait to share more updates from the manufacturing team!

Have you signed up for the Go Sondors newsletter? Go over to to www.GoSondors.com and signup on the form at the bottom right corner.

Best,

Storm
(END QUOTE)

So, what exactly is Storm telling us?
"We are having problems, we are working on them"

At last a little honesty, and way too late.. But better than the nothing that we have been getting I guess.

Says he is heading back to China, and shows a picture with IGGs head shark, so currently in the US it seems...
 
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