Sondors Fact Finding. Due Diligence. Scrutiny.

I will watch with interest too, I will follow FTC Complaints lead and make this my last post on this subject, happy to correspond with individual members as always. Time will be the guide as to the accuracy of the claims Sondors has made. Thanks Court, I'll put my energies elsewhere on the forum. If anyone thinks $4million will generate a few thousand dollars interest at todays rates it is time for me to give up.
 
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Note from Storm about your battery:

"I was able to arrange on my trip to Shanghai for all Sondors eBike batteries to be powered by Samsung cells.

This is huge news and a free perk for all backers!"

~Storm

Well that's interesting....
 
True
I'm not so sure about 'massive' problems @EULITTLB ; however, first releases of most ebikes have some issues that need tweaking or in some cases, everyone's patience until the next production run arrives to solve the problem. Issues that can be problematic if there is no professional help to handle them. Some companies choose to just throw parts to the customer in an attempt to solve a problem; however, many frustrated folks have wound up in my shop and other LBS when the bike owner never got a working solution from a phone or internet customer service rep. We also get updates or dealer bulletins from some manufacturers with critical technical information that may require action for new floor stock or adjustments for product already sold. And most manufacturers get an earful from us, their dealers, pretty fast if there's a problem that repeatedly crops up! With respect to Sonder's bike none of us know exactly how he plans to support his bike-- consider different languages, time zones, etc. In comparison, if I buy 1 Cree Li headlight on Alibaba through their 'Trade Assurance' program or a charger via DHGate, the specifics of returns and warranty with the Asian supplier is clearly spelled out before the purchase and there is a centralized point to file complaints about a product or shipping, so some level of secure transaction. It remains to be seen how this will be handled with the little yellow bike.

True Ann. A short warranty and limited customer support will frustrate a lot of new ebike owners. I see problems unless Storm gets ahead of it
 
They have one day to go, and I doubt there will be an extension. I think it's great, actually, that Court will own one of these. There are a ton of questions and his bike will provide some answers. When they let Sondors out into the public eye, he talked about 'warehouses' and 'warranties', which didn't seem to be part of the plan. It's been almost impossible to get information.

It's not clear what the battery cells will be, but probably the 2200 mah Samsungs. I've found these for around $3 apiece, so that is doable*. (ICR 18650 22P - 2200 mah). Up to now, most manufacturers have aimed for the very best cells. They just don't want a recall or any type of fire. But people are sourcing lower grades, apparently. Plus these are lower capacity cells. But the 22P would be a reassuring choice. It's clear that low cost ebike companies have some options to keep the battery costs down, but I didn't dig into the 22P's.

They've definitely had some accounting problems, with people expressing frustration about payments not showing up. But mostly there are complaints about paint colors, especially the rims.

* 40 cells x $3 = $120. A rule of thumb is to (at least) double the cell cost to cover the case and connections. That's $240, but then the item is supposed to be shipped as Hazmat. It's clear they are doing something I don't understand. To me, the delivered price would be around $300. The "perk" price for the extra pack is $180.
 
There seems to be a scam going on to do with the Sondors bike, apparently somebody else has set up an Indiegogo page with Storms details... (to their credit, it appeared to be down by the time I looked)..

eBike.4.All
10 hours ago


Who is Jesse Castillo, and what is he trying to pull?

http://igg.me/at/5BJUVOnQOzg/x/9903078

Antonio Tiat
8 hours ago


@ Ebike4all

http://igg.me/at/5BJUVOnQOzg/x/9903078

The other campaign is a scam….
He’s just trying to make money

eBike.4.All


7 hours ago
END QUOTES..

Ebike4 all brings up a very good point. is it that easy to set up an account on IGG? I thought they had safeguards and all scams were passed by management ... is it really as simple as "put up what ever you want, as long as we get our cut of the suckers money?"


Is it really THAT easy to run a scam on Indiegogo? You can just hijack someone’s campaign, and nobody checks you out? Really?
 
So, Jon Hopp is out of the picture?

QUOTE FROM SONDORS STORM FACEBOOK PAGE
(Link Removed - No Longer Exists)I worked on the prototype personally. I've met the owner(s) (only one now) .... Number don't add up. Whoever paid for one has another thing coming

(END).

Thoughts?
 
You wait. If Sondors doesn't deliver the goods as advertised his faithful Stormtroopers will blame it all on the fact that there was so much negativity towards the campaign from the start. Although all that the "naysayers" were trying to do was to highlight the inconsistencies in the campaign marketing propaganda. Although a few folks did go a little overboard along those lines.

Unless Storm is loading containers tomorrow there is no chance of any May deliveries due to shipping time and port delivery schedules that are way backed up due to the recent port shutdowns. But there seems to be folks fully expecting that to happen.

It's turning in to a typical CSF nightmare. Check out the highest funded campaign to date that was funded a year ago and still no delivery:

https://www.kickstarter.com/project...1st-century-cooler-thats-actually/description

If you go to the comments there are still the faithful few bickering with the ones that are getting a bit disgruntled. Kind of went sideways it seems when the 12/14 delivery date got bumped to 7/15.
 
Personally I don't care if I don't get my eBike until August. Or October. Heck, if I get the same build of the bike I rode at the Demo Day, for the price I've paid, by the end of the 2015 calendar year, I'm a happy camper.

And I'll reserve the right to laugh at the naysayers, as I zip on by.
 
I really hope you get the chance, its worth more than just a little egg on my face for all of you to get the bikes you paid for... If I'm ever in your part of the world, I'll happily pose for a picture as you ride by laughing and pointing...

But, I'm still suspicious, I've seen nothing but a few computer renderings to prove the bike is heading towards production.. we are 60 days away from delivery and there doesn't seem to be a lot of movement...
 
I really hope you get the chance, its worth more than just a little egg on my face for all of you to get the bikes you paid for... If I'm ever in your part of the world, I'll happily pose for a picture as you ride by laughing and pointing...

But, I'm still suspicious, I've seen nothing but a few computer renderings to prove the bike is heading towards production.. we are 60 days away from delivery and there doesn't seem to be a lot of movement...

Yet they're arm-twisting their backers into handing over shipping fees NOW for items that aren't even built yet... to get them shipped "on time"? Reminds me of a certain Steve Miller song.
 
Fofer, it is probably just as well that you don't care when you receive your bike. But you are not the only one that bought one and there are those that fully expect to take delivery based on the May delivery stated since the campaign began. Hopefully you will end up happy but don't expect that others will be as lenient as yourself.

At this point the campaign has ended but you can still buy the "perk" of your choice indefinitely through the "In Demand" feature of IGG. More info on that here: https://support.indiegogo.com/hc/en-us/articles/204092046? This seems very open ended to me and was something that I was not aware of as an option with CSF and I had to do some digging on the IGG site to find reference to it. I guess there is no reason why they shouldn't keep the tap on as long as they can but at the very least it would seem like they would raise the "limited time" prices in fairness to their campaign contributors that have been scurrying to buy before the deadline, which was played up with a countdown no less.

(Link Removed - No Longer Exists)

(Link Removed - No Longer Exists)
(Link Removed - No Longer Exists) ·
Here it is: the final hour. It's been an exciting campaign, but all things must come to an end. In one hour our campaign will be over, and we start an exciting new journey: delivering the coolest bikes at the lowest possible price to our loyal contributors.

One hour left to reserve your Sondors eBike.


Also at this point it seems like a little more than half have bought their shipping option before there is any real proof of anything to ship other than some vague photos. There is no reason that they should hold the shipping as hostage for the contributors that I can tell as there was no indication that would be the case at the start of the campaign or any time during except at the end. I think the Credible Hulk is smart to want to see a bike in a box before I felt obligated to pay for shipping.

It also seems like they are making the color selection process too complicated? Offering three frame colors and three wheel colors and allow people to choose between them seems like it would work out simply. That's what spreadsheets are for. Anything to reduce the amount of friction trying to get 7000+ frames out at this point with the minimal amount of support they are inclined to offer seems like a no brainer. The more folks upset about the little things make for big headaches in the long run.
 
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I really hope you get the chance, its worth more than just a little egg on my face for all of you to get the bikes you paid for... If I'm ever in your part of the world, I'll happily pose for a picture as you ride by laughing and pointing...

But, I'm still suspicious, I've seen nothing but a few computer renderings to prove the bike is heading towards production.. we are 60 days away from delivery and there doesn't seem to be a lot of movement...

I backed two other campaigns, one on Kickstarter for Pebble Time, the other on IGG for a robotic surveillance cam from a company called Amaryllo International. The differences I've noticed:
- far more frequent updates
- Company reps constantly present on comments boards
- quick and effective responses to backer concerns
- photos of prototypes, factory shots show actual product components, not generic parts
- photos and video demos of evolving prototype designs
- video of their products functioning in various settings (not just one video with one prototype)
- links to industry trade shows and other third-party events showcasing their products (the cam won the top innovation award at CES in Las Vegas last year)
- links to third party developers and companies creating software and accessories to work with the products

I fully expect to receive my camera in May, and my Pebble Time in June, as promised.

Too bad the Sondors team isn't meeting the above criteria so far.
 
Haven't paid much attention until recently but I wonder what anyone will get for that low price??? It will be interesting to hear the feed back from the recipients (assuming the bikes will be delivered). Even the Chinese have limits on cost reduction. Just reading the complaints from users of known and reputable e-bike manufacturers/suppliers leaves me questioning how an untested, unknown importer will perform......very skeptical.

Court J.
 
Court (EBR Court) owns one.

It's not exactly a cheap bike, at least in Europe. Someone put up the Customs Calculator for France

franc sondo.JPG

It's $1200 dollars, basically.
 
Nope Court EBR is patiently waiting like everybody else... would be interested to know if he has had any of the email issues others have been going through
 
Quote from Theodore Voltaire (the "nutty" one on endless sphere, not the cool suave, good looking clever one on IGG )

Re: "Storm" ebike - new fat tire entry

(Link Removed - No Longer Exists)by Theodore Voltaire » Mon Apr 06, 2015 7:57 pm

Looks like the igg days are numbered. Storm has already started on his webstore.

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