Solar Powered Homes

[Pine_marten]

Use solar energy for things it works well for. Electronics, communication, L.E.D. lighting. Forget the stove and refrigerator and air conditioner. Wear clothes that launder easily and dry quickly. Hoping to live with all the modern conveniences off grid is foolishness.

 

[Roamers]

Hoping to live with all the modern conveniences off grid is foolishness.

If you can get by his off topic opinions, a properly designed system is very doable with minor lifestyle changes. Bob was an RV off-gridder, now lives in Montana off- grid apparently quite comfortable.

HandyBob's Blog

Making off grid RV electrical systems work

handybobsolar.wordpress.com

 

[Art Deco]

Hopefully the money being spent here (and hopefully more to come) has some true impact on this discussion.

Senate Dems pass long-awaited climate, tax and health care bill

The majority party guided the legislation they'd labored over for more than a year through a 15-hour vote-a-rama, a last-minute snag with Sen. Kyrsten Sinema and several rules challenges.

www.politico.com

If this was approached as a war time effort... Imagine where we could be in 10 years.

Imagine where we could be if we had started even 20 years ago, instead of waiting until there was a crisis. I haven't gone through the legislation in any depth, but the the vote was pure political drama with 100% party line votes as I expected.

 

[Art Deco]

Use solar energy for things it works well for. Electronics, communication, L.E.D. lighting. Forget the stove and refrigerator and air conditioner. Wear clothes that launder easily and dry quickly. Hoping to live with all the modernand high voltage conveniences off grid is foolishness.

My first system did that, but when the power is out for days what you need power for is mostly high voltage loads.
The water pump, the freezer full of food, and heating or cooling depending on the season so the pipes (and people) don't freeze and old folks don't die of heat stroke. . The low voltage stuff like led lights and communication stuff can be handled by flashlights and an emergency radio.

 

[AHicks]

energy costs in the united states are typically on the open market, which means someone is making money (or at least breaking even) supplying said energy. wouldn’t be a very good business model if you had to go bankrupt or something every time an asset had to be replaced.

while i’ll agree with you that life cycle cost analysis (financial and environmental) has a ways to go, the vast majority of “but what about …” questions and arguments about solar, wind, geo, and other renewables are driven by people clinging to fossil fuels and completely ignoring the complete costs of those systems, cradle to grave. except with fossil fuels it’s quite literally the grave of hundreds and thousands of people!

as the technology improves, we’re discovering that these things last a lot longer than estimated. depending on the climate and density, with e-bikes, solar, a modest amount of storage (this is the weakest piece of the puzzle IMO), good building design and fixture selection, it would not be hard to live a comfortable lifestyle completely off the grid.

On the bold, while that may be true with some, I struggle with the question "are we getting the WHOLE story/truth?" when it comes to the "renewables"? I have an open mind on the topic, but when I hear/see comments trying to sell me on renewables of all kinds, I am forced to wonder when the other foot is going to fall. Like when are these other costs, the ones that may not be disclosed, going to come to light? So I ask questions like the ones above. And just like we've seen so far here, the answers are generally not real easy to find......

And I have absolutely no ties with, or reasons to stay with, fossil fuels...... Just asking for the WHOLE picture. Not the just the piece that looks good.

 

[Gionnirocket]

Imagine where we could be if we had started even 20 years ago, instead of waiting until there was a crisis. I haven't gone through the legislation in any depth, but the the vote was pure political drama with 100% party line votes as I expected.

From what I understand the number is 360 billion in investment and incentives.
At this point even 10 years ago sounds like some awesomeness

 

[Mulezen]

Imagine where we could be if we had started even 20 years ago, instead of waiting until there was a crisis. I haven't gone through the legislation in any depth, but the the vote was pure political drama with 100% party line votes as I expected.

We actually started in the Carter Admin. Then Reagan took down the WH solar panels and lit the culture wars. Kyoto was over 30 years back. Monied oil interests (Koch, Exxon etc.) stopped all talk about doing the responsible thing as the Republicans ‘stuck it to the libs”

 

[Art Deco]

On the bold, while that may be true with some, I struggle with the question "are we getting the WHOLE story/truth?" when it comes to the "renewables"? I have an open mind on the topic, but when I hear/see comments trying to sell me on renewables of all kinds, I am forced to wonder when the other foot is going to fall. Like when are these other costs, the ones that may not be disclosed, going to come to light? So I ask questions like the ones above. And just like we've seen so far here, the answers are generally not real easy to find......

And I have absolutely no ties with, or reasons to stay with, fossil fuels...... Just asking for the WHOLE picture. Not the just the piece that looks good.

The whole truth isn't even an option anymore. We used to say" The truth is paywalled, but the lies are still free". Even that isn't true now that publishers have found out that people will pay for half truths and opinions. And scientific studies behind paywalls aren't much better, IMHO. At least they do less harm since noone reads them ...

The climate legislation shows clearly what to expect.

That was a completely party line vote. The representatives didn't really care what was in the bill, just so long as their special interests got something they wanted. For example, Manchin got permission for his fossil fuel companies to pollute more, not less, Senema got tax breaks for private equity investors, and others (Bernie) got a chance to grandstand for the press. Etc.,etc.

This weather is what denial and delays have done so far, and we "ain't seen nothing yet", even in California and Texas, compared to other parts of the world.

 

[Art Deco]

We actually started in the Carter Admin. Then Reagan took down the WH solar panels and lit the culture wars. Kyoto was over 30 years back. Monied oil interests (Koch, Exxon etc.) stopped all talk about doing the responsible thing as the Republicans ‘stuck it to the libs”
View attachment 131622

And when we eventually get a few years of nice weather or low energy prices, the talking heads will claim it's all solved, the existing legislation will be gutted, and some celebrities will again be front page news. But nice weather, a stable and cheap electricity grid, and cheap diesel can and will all vanish virtually overnight again.

I sound like a crazy prepper, but they might be on the right track.

 

[Mulezen]

For The Christian Taliban Nationalist evangelicals the apocalypse of climate fits nicely with their ‘beliefs’. Look at a chart of world temperatures from the last few million years and the fact that the world is on fire is easy to see. The problem is ten times worse than it was when Al Gore won the popular vote. We’re doomed…but the earth abides.

 

[Browneye]

The VERY BEST forum on solar, especially DIY here:

DIY Solar Power Forum

Love building DIY solar electric projects? Come hang out :D

diysolarforum.com

Will Prowse also has a ton of how-to vids on a very popular YT channel. Check 'em out.

A couple of take aways from the comments here...
1. No one cares about manufacturing - they want free power. Buy quality components from reputable distributors.
2. You need to be in your home for a sufficient time to get a return on your investment.
3. Installation costs have come down dramatically in the past 5-10 years. ROI can be as little as 4-6 years.
4. You want to OWN the system, not pay for power from someone that installs them - no more power purchase contract - that's an old model that doesn't best benefit the user.
5. Component durability is good - the panels are a very mature industry with good components and warranties - residential type/grid-tie large format panels carry a 25 year warranty.
6. The rest of the components generally carry a 10-year or longer warranty, like inverters and such. If you're concerned with longevity budget for replacement of those things midway over the 25 year expected life of the system.
7. Vertical mounting is okay where there's snow - every place else orients them to the sun.
8. Ground mount is a much easier installation and easier maintenance, but most people don't have the space for that so they go on the roof.

I did a substantial power upgrade with lifepo4 battery and solar on our Winnebago motorhome - very happy and got a ton of help with it over there. We never did the house cuz we always planned to move when I retired. The new place will likely have an off-grid type system to supplant energy usage.

If you want the nitty-gritty of solar, go visit the DIY solar forum - the members there have dug into this thoroughly, and can even help you plan and design your own system, be it grid-tie, off-grid, or a hybrid. Tons of info there.

 

[Art Deco]

The VERY BEST forum on solar, especially DIY here:

DIY Solar Power Forum

Love building DIY solar electric projects? Come hang out :D

diysolarforum.com

Will Prowse also has a ton of how-to vids on a very popular YT channel. Check 'em out.

A couple of take aways from the comments here...
1. No one cares about manufacturing - they want free power. Buy quality components from reputable distributors.
2. You need to be in your home for a sufficient time to get a return on your investment.
3. Installation costs have come down dramatically in the past 5-10 years. ROI can be as little as 4-6 years.
4. You want to OWN the system, not pay for power from someone that installs them - no more power purchase contract - that's an old model that doesn't best benefit the user.
5. Component durability is good - the panels are a very mature industry with good components and warranties - residential type/grid-tie large format panels carry a 25 year warranty.
6. The rest of the components generally carry a 10-year or longer warranty, like inverters and such. If you're concerned with longevity budget for replacement of those things midway over the 25 year expected life of the system.
7. Vertical mounting is okay where there's snow - every place else orients them to the sun.
8. Ground mount is a much easier installation and easier maintenance, but most people don't have the space for that so they go on the roof.

I did a substantial power upgrade with lifepo4 battery and solar on our Winnebago motorhome - very happy and got a ton of help with it over there. We never did the house cuz we always planned to move when I retired. The new place will likely have an off-grid type system to supplant energy usage.

If you want the nitty-gritty of solar, go visit the DIY solar forum - the members there have dug into this thoroughly, and can even help you plan and design your own system, be it grid-tie, off-grid, or a hybrid. Tons of info there.

Yes, I am a member there also. Usually follow the SMA and off grid threads. But like everywhere, most new members are looking at the cheapest price first, last, and only. Discussing capabilites vs needs isn't nearly as exciting as yelling about prices ...

 

[Roamers]

Yes, I am a member there also. Usually follow the SMA and off grid threads. But like everywhere, most new members are looking at the cheapest price first, last, and only. Discussing capabilites vs needs isn't nearly as exciting as yelling about prices ...

Having recently designed a system for my van (440 watt solar, 400 ahr lithium), first step is to determine your power needs. I have a spreadsheet that estimates my daily usage both 12v dc and 110 v ac.

2nd step is storage needs to get you through no sun periods, 3rd step is panels needed to keep storage filled based on solar available in your area.

There is a big difference between emergency power outage useage and off grid living. My gut tells me you are way underestimating your storage needs if you want to keep freezer and refer going overnight.

 

[duggie]

I've lived off grid on boat. Back now on terra firma and very happy. It was an experience. Simmer was a breeze, the rest was needing generator. BUT it was an education. Don't get me wrong, I don't miss a trick, but i needed the 'challenge/worry' to get to the next level about energy. Now, I see very clearly. I mean, energy blasting up, I've built an 8x8 snug in mi workshop and with those white bar heaters for toilets, etc, Well, the 2ft is only 80w and the one ft only 40w. It works out at 2 pence an hour, about a cent and a half, for heating, Hot water, just a kettle. Cooking, just LPG, quick frying pan stuff.

If prices go up massive i will just go 12v led, etc, and gen, like on boat.

Domestic electric/gas can be cut back very very much, pressure cookers etc. But they get you with the standing charge. The standing charge is interesting: if it wasn't there and put onto the fuel, then we would use less fuel, flush less etc, so it would go up again, so we'd flush less, etc etc until we collected rain water and went back to the middle ages. This is very interesting, they don't want that. Standing charge. I mean, if you really wanted to be green there would be no standing charge, it would all be on the units used, but they daren't do that because we'd learn to get by on minute bits, and it would all be on industry, which can't cut back like folks. My heating, 2p per hour! and comfortable living. That is what off grid gives you, how to use it.

 

[duggie]

Ps, the 8x8x8x inside cabin is heavily insulated. Insulation is key

 

[Art Deco]

Having recently designed a system for my van (440 watt solar, 400 ahr lithium), first step is to determine your power needs. I have a spreadsheet that estimates my daily usage both 12v dc and 110 v ac.

2nd step is storage needs to get you through no sun periods, 3rd step is panels needed to keep storage filled based on solar available in your area.

There is a big difference between emergency power outage useage and off grid living. My gut tells me you are way underestimating your storage needs if you want to keep freezer and refer going overnight.

" underestimating your storage needs " is an understatement.

I had no battery at all in my old grid tied system, and all it could do was run the freezer and the small loads during the day. Which it did just fine, while saving some money on the electric bill.

But no running water means no flush toilets and buying bottled water. Having wtater is much more important than saving money on a warm shower and a hot breakfast that any inverter can do.

So a big battery and proper inverter for necessary loads is what I'm looking for. Solar panels are almost as cheap as metal roofing today, so I think I can get all the power I need when the sun is shining.

EDIT agree that insulation is key. All of it, fiberglass, blown in paper, even the foam stuff in a can works wonders. Insulate your place well enough and you can heat with a toaster or cool with a bag of ice.

Another Edit so I can find posts in this thread is some CNN coverage of when an American city runs out of water right now.

What it's like trying to survive without water in Jackson, Mississippi | CNN

Most people in the United States take it for granted that when you turn on a faucet, you get potable water.

www.cnn.com

 

[duggie]

You are right, it is insulation. Times I have come across mouse nests, they know what the job is, all chewed up and deep........its insulation. I can never heat my workshop, but the 8x8x8x cabin, in it, insulated massive. This is the future way of living. but i am taking my ideas from yester-year, four poster beds (curtains), and all they knew 500 years ago and more. Insulation is the way, thick and deep, all round, top and bottom and all sides, like a mouse, big style. Simple as that......a cozy snug for the winter, all fits in for your essential living needs

 

[Art Deco]

You are right, it is insulation. Times I have come across mouse nests, they know what the job is, all chewed up and deep........its insulation. I can never heat my workshop, but the 8x8x8x cabin, in it, insulated massive. This is the future way of living. but i am taking my ideas from yester-year, four poster beds (curtains), and all they knew 500 years ago and more. Insulation is the way, thick and deep, all round, top and bottom and all sides, like a mouse, big style. Simple as that......a cozy snug for the winter, all fits in for your essential living needs

After insulation to keep heat in or out, next Big thing is shade and sunlight. Every RV camper knows you want to park the rig in the shade in the hot summer and put the panels in the sun to power the battery for the air conditioner at night.

The smallest amount of shade is as bad as having a big hole in your insulation because your panels will drop production to match the shaded part and your batteries will not get charged.

 

[Art Deco]

For The Christian Taliban Nationalist evangelicals the apocalypse of climate fits nicely with their ‘beliefs’. Look at a chart of world temperatures from the last few million years and the fact that the world is on fire is easy to see. The problem is ten times worse than it was when Al Gore won the popular vote. We’re doomed…but the earth abides.

Can't really hit 'like ' on that post but some people do act like they believe making things worse will get whatever IT is over more quickly leading to a rapture of the chosen group ... the one and only group that the true believer belongs to.

 

[Art Deco]

It's promising technology given the vehicle needs crazy large batteries for infrequent longer trips , so why not use it to buffer the system the rest of the time.

Unfortunately, in Australia the vehicle to home / grid chargers / inverters aren't easilly available ( only recently approved and long wait lists) . I'd consider having something like a nissan leaf plugged into the solar carport as the house battery / occasional long trip vehicle.

Very much taken with the idea of a solar carport. At least it doesn't require electricity to open the garage doors since there aren't any doors, it allows me to have shade trees over my house roof without killing production, and it shades the car better and cleaner than parking it under a tree.