Seeking opinion on Heybike Sola, or similar

[Curious]

Hi all, new to the forum and the world of ebikes. I'm looking for a bike to take asphalt roads generally uphill to the Mountain foothills, as well as some cross-town commuting. Foothills would be <10miles, < 2000ft vertical gain. Commuting would be <15miles, <200ft vertical on mixed surface streets, bike lanes and bike paths. Probably 75% time in the hills, remainder commuting.

Never ridden and ebike before, but seems like the Torque-sensor is better alternative to the cadence sensor. The concept of amplifying the torque I apply to the pedals seems alot better than doing something with rpm of the crank. But Torque Sensor costs $$$$...The Heybike Sola seems to be the least expensive Torque Sensor bike, it's generally <$1200. It's 500Watt Hub motor, ~ 600Watt-hour battery, weighing about 50lb. Any feedback on the Sola, positive or negative will be appreciated. I like the relatively low weight, should I run out of battery.

One quirk I've noticed is the throttle mode requires switching to Pedal-Assist 0 (of 0-5) before being available. Seems like a silly requirement. Is there any hope of firmware upgrades to the controllers for these modestly priced ebikes?

 

[indianajo]

I ride geared hub motors. They are suitable for the rolling hills around here, 77 of them with 200' overall gain in 30 miles. They can overheat with 1000' gain in an hour, most probably would with 2000'. I burned a winding on an inadequate 350 w bafang hub motor last year. Didn't even reach the 12% grades near the end of my route.
You need a mid-drive which would be slower. Wanting a throttle (I do) means it has to be bafang. Somebody said something nice about Frey mountain bikes last week. No knowledge, but I tried the website and one model had a bafang motor. Don't buy fat tires, they slow you down unless you are on fluffy beach sand or powder snow.
How much do you weigh? How much tools, spares, etc. I go way off the roads with signposts and carry 20 lb of above including water. The more watts the better. If you climb anything steep you'll need at least a 32:36 low speed, or with standard 46 drive sprocket 48 tooth rear. I find suspension optional, 2.1" or bigger tires (up to 2.4" in 55 psi rating) comfortable on my hard frame in mild off road excursions. Tires bigger than that are 25 or 30 psi rated, create huge drag. If you charge hard over rocks & logs you'll need a suspension which costs another $1000-$1500.
I buy alternate controllers for my hub motors, but the ones on e-bay don't have torque sense or even a pas (crank) pickup input. Throttle only. Fitting them in your frame in place of a factory controller would be a trick. With a nice space behind the seat on a stretch frame cargo bike, I have room to mount about any controller with aluminum struts & machine screws. The seat keeps the rain off. The wires are pointed down to make a drip loop. A couple of guys on here buy KT controllers, but they must be shipping from ***** or Canada; I can't find any stocked in the US.
See this thread https://forums.electricbikereview.com/threads/my-first-e-bike-build.54204/ especially linklemming posts about cyc photon drive.

 

[Curious]

I ride geared hub motors.

Hi, thanks for your response.
Is Geared-hub motor different from a "direct-drive hub motor"? I'm aware of some $$$$$ hub motors where the derailleur/sprocket cluster is replaced with a Shimano Planetary transmission, maybe this is what you mean by geared-hub motor?

They can overheat with 1000' gain in an hour, most probably would with 2000'. I burned a winding on an inadequate 350 w bafang hub motor last year. Didn't even reach the 12% grades near the end of my route.

Wow, hadn't thought about heating. I would have guessed that controllers would sense the overheating and deliver less assistance somehow.

You need a mid-drive which would be slower. Wanting a throttle (I do) means it has to be bafang.

I had assumed that with mid-drive throttle-only was undesirable. If the motor is driving the chainwheel, you would have to spin the pedals. Are you implying Bafang mid-drive somehow allows throttle only while the feet rest???

Don't buy fat tires, they slow you down unless you are on fluffy beach sand or powder snow.

Yeah, my thinking also. I don't understand why the proliferation of 4 inch fat tires on asphalt...weight, inertia, rolling resistance...yet that seems to be what "everybody" rides.

How much do you weigh? How much tools, spares, etc. I go way off the roads with signposts and carry 20 lb of above including water. The more watts the better. If you climb anything steep you'll need at least a 32:36 low speed, or with standard 46 drive sprocket 48 tooth rear.

200lbs and expect to carry 15lb backpack when riding to the mountains. Is 500watts hub drive too small?

I buy alternate controllers for my hub motors, but the ones on e-bay don't have torque sense or even a pas (crank) pickup input. Throttle only.

So you're saying hub-drive motors can be driven by third-party controllers? But, what's available today lacks torque sensor or cadence sensors...so probably less desirable than the Heybike Sola factory default torque sensor controller?

 

[indianajo]

DIrect drive motors can be used in steep hills, but use about 4 times as much electricity (watthours) grinding up them as a geared hub motor. Ie 1/4 the range as a geared hub on same route. I had one, parked it at 500 miles. I haven't looked up Heybike sofa, but I don't know of any packaged ebike that has a DD motor. An internal gear hub is a separate appliance, works only on the foot power with a geared hub motor on the front wheel. Geared hub motors have an internal gearset of about 5:1 so the motor spins a lot faster than the wheel, where electricity is more efficient. This gearset can't change speeds, but since bike wheels max at 200 rpm, 1000 rpm of the motor rotor is no big deal. The gearset separates the windings from the case, prohibiting a geared hub motor from cooling effectively. DD motors have the windings attached to the case, and can cool better. DD motors are easy to spot, about 10" in diameter, and usually painted black, rated 1000 watts up.
Some controllers can sense motor heat and shut down (with a 6th pin on the hall effect connector), which leaves you the rider standing by the side of the road. At least you don't have to buy a new motor.
Yes, 500 w geared hub motor may be too small for you. Depends on the grade. If grade was an easy 6%, you have to ride 32000 feet horizontal to climb 2000' vertical. That is 6 miles. I climb some 12% grades, weigh 160 with 20 lb tools & spares & 60 lb groceries. I find 1000 w geared hub really is zippy up the 12%. You can't buy those anymore, 30+ states have outlawed them. I bought mine in 2020. The idea of men carrying groceries up 12% grades at 8 mph electrically scares legislatures to death. The legislature wants me to buy a Harley, or better a dually diesel pickup truck. Burn those dinosaurs! Pay more taxes!
I've matched up 5 controllers to 5 different hub motors. Making the connectors match is the trick. I find the white rectangular flat pin hall effect block, easy to match up, and flip the sensor order by popping pins if necessary. (scooters rotate opposite than ebikes, most controllers I buy are for scooters). I bought a kit of such rectangular connectors off ebay, which has made matchups possible.
Motor wires of ring terminals, or .157" bullet terminals, can be converted from one to the other. Juli connectors are all the rage now, there you are limited to the way they come. There are at least 2 and maybe more sizes of juli connector. The common one doesn't have big enough motor pins for 1000 watt motors.
Yes bafang mid drives allow both cadence sensor and throttle. Maybe some allow torque sensing too instead of cadence sense. Read the frey website; I stopped at the flexi model that had 4" tires. For more about bafang mid drives read diykits and conversions thread below. https://forums.electricbikereview.com/forum/diy/ Mid drives cool better than geared hub motors, people say. People also say the "gears multiply the torque" which is a big fat lie except maybe if you buy the special order 32 tooth front sprocket and the dish sized 48 tooth rear sprocket which adds about $250 to the cost of the bike. 99% of mid-drives sold have a 46 tooth front sprocket, IMHO.
As far as my use of throttle, I'm a Viet Nam era Army vet whose cartilage was pounded out of my knees by running in combat boots. I ride unpowered as much as possible to keep my heart+lungs in shape, but if I twist my knee on uneven ground, I can hardly walk for a week. Then I use the throttle 100%. I also find throttle useful for getting started on a 20% grade that accesses a highway with 55 mph speed limit. Pedaling the crank for 1 turn to make the PAS pickup start the motor is not possible in that location, and I can't see the cars coming from the lower grade further back from the stop sign.

 

[Curious]

DIrect drive motors can be used in steep hills, but use about 4 times as much electricity (watthours) grinding up them as a geared hub motor. Ie 1/4 the range as a geared hub on same route. I had one, parked it at 500 miles. I haven't looked up Heybike sofa, but I don't know of any packaged ebike that has a DD motor.

OK, I was lost in the terminology. To summarize then, Direct drive hub motors and geared hub motors are related to getting the motor only power to the wheel, nothing to do with pedal power. And all the modestly priced production e-bikes use the geared hub motor variety.

An internal gear hub is a separate appliance, works only on the foot power with a geared hub motor on the front wheel.

So here referring to a multi-speed (7-8 speeds) rpm increase transmission only for pedal power, serving the same function as a derailleur+ sprocket cluster transmission.

I've matched up 5 controllers to 5 different hub motors. Making the connectors match is the trick. I find the white rectangular flat pin hall effect block, easy to match up, and flip the sensor order by popping pins if necessary. (scooters rotate opposite than ebikes, most controllers I buy are for scooters). I bought a kit of such rectangular connectors off ebay, which has made matchups possible.
Motor wires of ring terminals, or .157" bullet terminals, can be converted from one to the other. Juli connectors are all the rage now, there you are limited to the way they come. There are at least 2 and maybe more sizes of juli connector.

DIY definitely seems the way to go if don't want to suffer from a ton of compromises. I'm thinking starting with a production bike to see what I like and dislike. The wheeled transport equivalent methaphor of walking before running.

.
Yes bafang mid drives allow both cadence sensor and throttle. Maybe some allow torque sensing too instead of cadence sense. Read the frey website; I stopped at the flexi model that had 4" tires. For more about bafang mid drives read diykits and conversions thread below. https://forums.electricbikereview.com/forum/diy/

I got lost in this thread, but sounds like you're implying that Bafang middrive allows driving the chain without spinning the pedals, somehow, right?

As far as my use of throttle, I'm a Viet Nam era Army vet whose cartilage was pounded out of my knees by running in combat boots. I ride unpowered as much as possible to keep my heart+lungs in shape, but if I twist my knee on uneven ground, I can hardly walk for a week. Then I use the throttle 100%. I also find throttle useful for getting started on a 20% grade that accesses a highway with 55 mph speed limit. Pedaling the crank for 1 turn to make the PAS pickup start the motor is not possible in that location, and I can't see the cars coming from the lower grade further back from the stop sign.

I just demo'ed the Heybike Sola with Torque sensor and their closest equivalent with cadence sensor.Cadence sensor really does bad things in the scenarios you describe. Also noticed cadence sensor does exactly the wrong thing when you absentmindedly hit a hill when derailleur is on too high a sprocket...it reduces power from the motor when you need it most! Torque Sensor worked great in all scenariors..

 

[Hornduck]

Hi all, new to the forum and the world of ebikes. I'm looking for a bike to take asphalt roads generally uphill to the Mountain foothills, as well as some cross-town commuting. Foothills would be <10miles, < 2000ft vertical gain. Commuting would be <15miles, <200ft vertical on mixed surface streets, bike lanes and bike paths. Probably 75% time in the hills, remainder commuting.

Never ridden and ebike before, but seems like the Torque-sensor is better alternative to the cadence sensor. The concept of amplifying the torque I apply to the pedals seems alot better than doing something with rpm of the crank. But Torque Sensor costs $$$$...The Heybike Sola seems to be the least expensive Torque Sensor bike, it's generally <$1200. It's 500Watt Hub motor, ~ 600Watt-hour battery, weighing about 50lb. Any feedback on the Sola, positive or negative will be appreciated. I like the relatively low weight, should I run out of battery.

One quirk I've noticed is the throttle mode requires switching to Pedal-Assist 0 (of 0-5) before being available. Seems like a silly requirement. Is there any hope of firmware upgrades to the controllers for these modestly priced ebikes?

Hey Curious! I saw further in thread that you had a demo ride on the Sola, so this reply may be a bit late. I'm a three month Sola owner/rider. So far, the experience with the bike has been great and more than I expected.

For me, I wanted to get back into biking, but, on my non-motorized bike, I would find myself getting discouraged on hills that my legs just couldn't compete with anymore. The idea of an ebike was appealing so I started looking. After a little research, I decided that a torque-sensor bike was for me. Enter the Sola. Not knowing if I would have the commitment to stick with this form of recreation, I wanted to keep the cost reasonable and the Sola, at a sub-$1,000 buy price, was my choice.

My feedback:
- Fit/Finish - the bike appears to be well manufactured with the pre-assembled components all in need of no adjustments. Gears, shifter, brakes...everything worked flawlessly right out of the box.
- Torque-sensor - smooth and natural. When I depress the pedal, I get immediate assistance (very helpful when starting from a complete stop).
- Throttle - used 1 time. At first, I thought my bike was defective when I didn't get a response from the throttle. I then did something I rarely do, I read the manual. It is strange that the throttle does not work in any PAS setting but '0', but that is the case. However, for my riding, I find that the torque-sensor driven motor provides what I need and I really don't think about throttle-only. When I did try throttle-only, I just kicked it down to '0' and cruised along at 20mph.
- Ride - comfortable on asphalt and packed gravel. The riding position is more forward than upright. With no suspension, I wouldn't recommend as a loose gravel or trails (rail trails) bike.
- Battery - great. That "great" rating is likely because I ride on PAS1 most if not all of the time.
- Hills - With me pedaling and the bike assisting, I have yet to hit a hill that the bike cannot handle or that stressed the motor. If I were to tackle some of those hills on throttle-only, I'm sure the feedback would be different. Your elevation gain would be a big test.

Assembly note - if you haven't already and you do decide to pick up a Sola, the rear fender is a challenge to position. At least for me. The easiest way to get it into position without modifying the bracket or removing the back wheel is to let most of the air out of the rear tire. Then, you can compress the tire and slip the bracket between the tire and the frame. Re-inflate and you are done with no fuss.

I'm glad I started with the Sola. It has given me a few hundred miles already with no issues.