Second Conversion - Priority Continuum Onyx Build Thread

[Torsten]

...a bit compact (went with a 19" frame size, should have gone for the 21").

What is your inseam? I'm considering this bike as well for conversion and trying to decide between two sizes.

 

[Shel-done]

I think you would die of old age before Grin gives up their CA v3. It took them forever to do the v3 to replace the v2. Heck they didn't even bother to publish a manual to the thing until maybe a year ago. This comes from the fact that Grin's audience is wholly in the realm of DIY builders who figure things out for themselves. The CA is a data tool that appeals to that group over and above any user-friendliness. With that said, the CA can support a PAS sensor and some very sophisticated PAS programming. Or so I've heard. I have stayed away from Grin stuff because of that damn CA. They are all very good products though so don't let what I am saying stop you from trusting their gear.

Maybe I'm wrong and an revision is in the works. Either way you owe it to yourself to make the assist automatic on pedaling, which is a wonderful thing.

For Higo/Julet cables, if water resistance is your bag then you really want to add a dab of dielectric grease to every one of those connections. They are indeed pretty much waterproof. The grease will take that a step further.

Completely agree about the CA comments and am not keen to wait for Grin's solution if I can figure out my own path. I'm fairly against using a CA unless its tucked away in my frame bag, out of sight & mind with maybe a handle bar PAS switch. I debated going this route initially but leaned more towards the simple and minimal setup.

Also, for some additional context I did speak with Grin about their V4 Baserunner prior to ordering and received the following tidbits from Justin:

...we were planning to offer the system with the SW102 displays from star-union but ran into significant hiccups in the supply and availability, so currently we are exploring other small display avenues through King Meter. The system will work with most displays that have the KM5s protocol but we don't have formal support for that yet or have a publicly available software suite to configure the unit for 3rd party displays and native PAS sensing. Those are all projects we are working on but are still in local beta development phase.

So if I can tolerate a thumb throttle only setup for long enough I do believe Grin will come out with something, I'm just not that patient normally. Especially when commuting 60-80 hilly miles weekly begins next week.

First, great build, I like your choice of bike, I recommended the Priority Continuum model in my recent blog post on Enviolo CVT hubs because it uses the trekking model which is stronger than the City model which is the other Enviolo hub Priority use.

Matt's right, the Grin Baserunner manual describes three setups but on p.7 says they only sell the 3rd party display wiring to OEM customers not retail, and on p.8 says the headless option means you are unable to change PAS power level. A torque PAS bottom bracket sensor would be a good addition to your rig based on how you describe you want to ride, so maybe try the CA3 and see how it performs as you want it to.

Thanks for the compliment! The Enviolo hub is an absolute dream. Tested out a Nexus 3sp hub on a prior ebike and it paled in comparison. Not sure I can ever go back to traditional gearing or a chain again after experiencing the smoothness of this drivetrain. Priority also seems like a great company from my experience.

Yea, torque sensing seems like the best way to attain that augment style ride feel. I may consider going CA if I can't figure out another option for a simpler display/PAS with the V4 Baserunner. I think the hardest part would be software/programming. Much to learn, I have, mm.

 

[Shel-done]

What is your inseam? I'm considering this bike as well for conversion and trying to decide between two sizes.

I have a 32" inseam and am just at 5'11" tall without shoes and 6' with most shoes I'd ride a bike wearing. I went with the 19" because my spouse is shorter than me and I like having the option of her taking my bike for quick rides with a saddle adjustment. I come from a traditional road biking background and understand bike fitting for proper power output & ergonomics; the frame size is fine for both for me. That said, I would have probably liked the larger size strictly for the longer top tube to open up more opportunities for shorter stems or more swept back/wider bars.

Edit: Also cannot recommend this bike enough for a conversion. I will say that Priority will void the warranty if aware of your conversion though, so just be cognizant if you think you'll need warranty support in the future. I've never once used a warranty on any new bike purchase so I'm not concerned.

 

[JRA]

I found with my front hub bikes that having a "cruise control" feature on the throttle I never wanted for PAS. Set it and forget it until the next stop light pretty much. However I do use a CA3 for that function as well as a control that sets the max watts in increments of 250w.

Although I use a torque sensing system on my eMTB, and prefer it for riding trails, whenever I get on a road and get up a good spin I don't like the pedal feel nearly as much as I do on my non PAS bike as it just doesn't feel as natural.

Looks like your eBike needs are finally being met though after that last debacle so wishing many happy miles.

 

[m@Robertson]

I'm fairly against using a CA unless its tucked away in my frame bag, out of sight & mind with maybe a handle bar PAS switch.

It boggles the mind... how did people ride bicycles in the olden times without a data panel to tell them watts used per mile, the current time and their average and peak speed? Riding a bicycle without a digital display? Shocking.

I've had two bikes (still have one) with no display and I really like it that way. One was a Cyclone with only a watt meter on the pack - behind me - to satisfy my curiosity as to how many peak amps I pulled on the ride. The other one is my Cyc, which uses a Eggrider v2... display is so small its unnoticeable (and completely illegible). I haven't missed the data dump one bit.

 

[Shel-done]

About 115 miles on the bike now and not a single issue to report. I'm genuinely impressed how well this came together and I've adapted pretty well to the throttle only approach.

Still would like to compare a PAS/torque sensor setup to this throttle one but just can't bring myself to purchase a Cycle Analyst yet. Though I have a feeling it will be a project down the road as I have plenty of space left in my frame bag to hide it. Haven't stopped to take photos yet on any of my rides since I'm commuting and in a rush to get to work or home to the family. Will try to spend more leisure time this week though.

Need to post some final specs for my bike too now that its done. Stay tuned!

 

[SimonBNZ]

I'm so sorry I'm late to this party. But, OMG. I am thinking along very similar lines and love those Priority bikes - Do you guys know Shifter channel on YouTube? I recently converted an Avanti Inc 8 speed Alfine, Gate belt drive using front All Axle from Grin. Along with baserunner and CA. And all those wires drove me crazy too. I didn't even want to large battery fixed to my downtube, so opted for local battery x2 to fit in topeak bag under my seat. I love the idea of the LiGo batteries from Grin but didn't like the totally sealed aspect - I want to be able to replace dud cells if I need to. I initially had the baserunner fixed to Jones handle bars and CA on top with wires pushed into small bag in the Jones gap. After noticing the baserunner did not get hot from my use, even without heatsink that I forgot to order ( and Grin failed to mention), I moves the CA and baserunner into a toptube bag along with all the wires AND the battery. The batteries are 10s2p and small. If I plan a big trip, I'll put the second battery in the seat bag and simply change them over if the first goes flat. Here are the 2 setups. I'm now planning to go back to battery in seat bag and CA + Baserunner up front using a handle bar bag for the wires. I have the BB torque sensor to fit and wire in and I'm keen to set up regen braking with a brake cutoff switch to change throttle into progressive braking. The CA is necessary for all this and has been easy to access and programme via serial cable. Those are bags of coffee beans in the carrier - one of my favourite reasons to go for a ride - freshly roasted beans.

 

[SimonBNZ]

Any updates ? I'm very Keen to hear about any changes you have made to your conversion.

 

[PedalUma]

It boggles the mind... how did people ride bicycles in the olden times without a data panel to tell them watts used per mile, the current time and their average and peak speed? Riding a bicycle without a digital display? Shocking.

I've had two bikes (still have one) with no display and I really like it that way. One was a Cyclone with only a watt meter on the pack - behind me - to satisfy my curiosity as to how many peak amps I pulled on the ride. The other one is my Cyc, which uses a Eggrider v2... display is so small its unnoticeable (and completely illegible). I haven't missed the data dump one bit.

The build I am working on today will have a mini display that will show only two things, battery remaining and power level. It has three small buttons. One for on/off. One for power level up and another for power level down. That's it. Road bikes have shifters that do not display what gear you are in because real riders ride by feel, not data. A guy was posting about his Bluetooh Blues with his Specialized not syncing with his phone and mission control and not hitting wireless shifting, Strava, and Gopro! That stuff is all useless, gimmicky, gee-whiz, gizmos. It is like casino sounds. Anyone impressed by it is someone I wouldn't care to impress. And what if that makes it so your bike doesn't work?

 

[m@Robertson]

The build I am working on today will have a mini display that will show only two things, battery remaining and power level. It has three small buttons. One for on/off. One for power level up and another for power level down. That's it.

I have converted one of my Bullitts to be more or less display-free, and the second one is in progress. The display is hiding in a handlebar bag with only the PAS panel accessible and on the handlebars.

KT makes the KT-LCD4 which is a tiny thing just like an EggRider v2 but with an LCD display and a backlight, so you should actually be able to read the thing if you choose to. Thats the one that is on the way and it will replace the KT-LCD3 you see on these bars. Cost is about US$30. And for a replacement Bafang display, there is something of an improved version of the Eggrider's SW102... Its called a DM03 from VeloFox. Supports 9 levels of PAS, slightly larger buttons. Same nearly invisible OLED display. US$40 or so. It is on the left side of the handlebars on this 2wd bike below. The LCD4 will eliminate the one display left and take the place of the PAS panel on the right.

 

[PedalUma]

I had to set down my build project to get paid for a bike and then a good friend's kid put his heal into a 50-t rear cog. It is essentially a toothed buzz saw blade. Just before it happened he said, 'Look how fast the wheel is going, Mommy.' She thought, 'That's weird, he never said that before. The conveniently removable in 2-seconds panniers also severe a more important function. It is four stiches but you could see the Achilles tendon.

 

[SimonBNZ]

@Shel-done re Cycle Analyst. Initially I was keen to minimize the "clutter" of a conversion; small motor, small battery under my seat, minimal stuff on handlebars, BUT I also wanted to know how much power I actually needed from the motor, and I wanted to use the regen capabilities of the motor and use the torque sensor in the bottom bracket. Since I've installed the CA and the brake sensor for regen and the torque sensor, I've been very pleased to have the CA. It does a lot and provides a lot more feedback than I imagined. At one point I concealed it in a top tube bag - along with the battery and controller, but now it has earned its place on the steering stem with a bracket over a small bag to hold all the accompanying wires. The controller is held external on the steering stem, and the battery is now in a small bag under the seat. While the set up is far from minimal, the info I get while riding - watts from battery, motor temperature is good to have, and the info when stopped - watts from battery, watts from human (me) , % regen ( 50% is average recovery), max amps out of battery, and into battery from regen, and all things that let me know how the whole system is performing. I will use this info for my next build - and for anyone else who wants to know these numbers. Yes there is a cost in appearance, but there is also a benefit in knowing what is happening.