Schwalbe Marathon Plus a lot worse than stock Kenda tires!

[Timpo]

So I "upgraded" to Schwalbe Marathon Plus because that's what Juiced's new CCX have and so I was like ok it must be better.

Right off the bat the braking performance was a lot worse and my braking distance was increased dramatically.

Especially in the rain, if I lock the rear brake I feel like it will keep sliding forever and if I grab the front brake a little hard, I can lock the front brake quite easily, and you know how dangerous that is.
Even on dry condition, yes the overall brake performance is worse.

Just to let you know, I commute on daily basis, same road, same kind of condition, and I am VERY FAIMILAR with my bike with Kenda tires, so not, it's not placebo.

Anyways, I thought I would give Schwalbe a couple weeks because I thought it might needed to break in. (I remember from my motorcycle that brand new tires are very slipperly and had to be broken in)

So fast forward 3 weeks or so, the performance was not up to the Kenda tires that I used to have.

I was like what the heck is wrong and decided to compare my old tires (I haven't disposed yet) and noticed that tire structures are completely different.
The Schwalbe has oval shape and Kenda has flatter shape.
Yes, I realize that Kenda tires are "squared off" due to everyday use, but despite that, original design of Kenda had more flatter shape than Schwalbe.
Also Kenda seems a little wider, even though they're both same size at 700c-45c

Needless to say, this will result in the different contact patch.

Don't get me wrong, I know Schwalbe is a better tire in terms build quality, it was a lot heavier than Kenda and had this "heavy duty" feel to it.
I'm guessing the this shape will give a lot lower rolling resistance too.

But maybe the less rolling resistance = worse braking performance?

Anyways, I don't know if it's just me but I imagine there are other Juiced owners who switched from Kenda to Schwalbe, and I'm just wondering if you guys noticed the same thing.

 

[Feliz]

Others have made the same observation as you. I wouldn't use anything but Schwalbe but that's just me I guess mostly because I've never had a flat with a Schwalbe tire.

 

[DDBB]

. The OEM Schwalbe Marathon on my wife's bike developed a bubble in the sidewall after the 1st twenty miles.. PSI was about 5 below max recommended and she didn't hit anything. It's being covered under warranty but in the meantime the LBS slapped a Kenda cross tire on the wheel for 20 bucks, half the cost of the Schwalbe. I have no idea about puncture protection or longevity for the Kenda. The Schwalbe says it has "green guard" which I assume is some sort of slime in the tube. The Kenda has a smooth center section and pretty aggressive knobbies on the sides for dirt/sand. Wife loves it but you can hear this tire on smooth pavement. Not so with the Schwalbe. I have bought those emergency tubes, a can of fix a flat, a small rechargeable pump, patch kit and a can of fix a flat for the inevitable.

 

[MisterM]

So I "upgraded" to Schwalbe Marathon Plus because that's what Juiced's new CCX have and so I was like ok it must be better.

Right off the bat the braking performance was a lot worse and my braking distance was increased dramatically.

Especially in the rain, if I lock the rear brake I feel like it will keep sliding forever and if I grab the front brake a little hard, I can lock the front brake quite easily, and you know how dangerous that is.
Even on dry condition, yes the overall brake performance is worse.

Just to let you know, I commute on daily basis, same road, same kind of condition, and I am VERY FAIMILAR with my bike with Kenda tires, so not, it's not placebo.

Anyways, I thought I would give Schwalbe a couple weeks because I thought it might needed to break in. (I remember from my motorcycle that brand new tires are very slipperly and had to be broken in)

So fast forward 3 weeks or so, the performance was not up to the Kenda tires that I used to have.

I was like what the heck is wrong and decided to compare my old tires (I haven't disposed yet) and noticed that tire structures are completely different.
The Schwalbe has oval shape and Kenda has flatter shape.
Yes, I realize that Kenda tires are "squared off" due to everyday use, but despite that, original design of Kenda had more flatter shape than Schwalbe.
Also Kenda seems a little wider, even though they're both same size at 700c-45c

Needless to say, this will result in the different contact patch.

Don't get me wrong, I know Schwalbe is a better tire in terms build quality, it was a lot heavier than Kenda and had this "heavy duty" feel to it.
I'm guessing the this shape will give a lot lower rolling resistance too.

But maybe the less rolling resistance = worse braking performance?

Anyways, I don't know if it's just me but I imagine there are other Juiced owners who switched from Kenda to Schwalbe, and I'm just wondering if you guys noticed the same thing.

View attachment 27347

View attachment 27348

Perhaps you may have contaminated your rotors and/or pads when you swapped tires? Even oils from your hands on rotors are enough to cause poor brake performance. Try cleaning with isopropyl alcohol and/or light sanding.

Changing tires shouldn't have much effect on braking performance absent new tires losing traction (ie skidding)

 

[michael mitchell]

The Schwalbe feels like it has a harder compound than the stock Kendas. Just like in auto racing, softer tires = better grip. I suppose it comes down to whether you

1) believe the Schwalbes actually provide more puncture protection
2) are willing to trade handling performance for that protection

I have a Marathon Plus on my rear tire, and yes, it's more slippery in the rain.

 

[Ravi Kempaiah]

Schwalbe makes great products. Very occasionally there may be a QC problem but overall I have had excellent experience.
Marathon Plus is a quintessential touring and long distance tire. They are built for maximum protection but they are not made for wet conditions. In fact, they give wet surface performance metric for each tire (along with protection, road grip, durability etc).
Almotions, GT 365 and Energizer plus have slightly different compound that are made for road grip (hence braking). If a man chooses German Shephard dog and expect it to behave like a small beagle puppy, should we blame the dog?

It would be wise to pick the tires suited for each one's needs.

 

[indianajo]

I use Kenda off-road tires, either the knobbies or the diagonal blocks. Either has more than 1/8" of rubber outside the tire carcass when new. I don't get flats if I change out before tread <1/16".
I don't get tire lockup when braking, either. I have disk brakes. I ride in rain, snow, broken glass on pavement, sticks piled in the bike lane, whatever. I can't ride on glare ice or snow over frozen rain.
People assassinate Kenda as if all the tires are the same. I have had road tires like shown in post 1 pick up metal trash and have "mysterious cause" flats. I don't ride road tires anymore. Yes, the off road tires make some noise. Whoopie. I can hear **** gas scooters 1/4 mile away. 1/2 mile if the muffler fell off.
there are much *****ier tires than Kenda. Schwinn from the grocery store would pop off the rim and blow the tube. Pity, those roll up tires would fit in the bag for a spare. Freedomcycle road tire that came with my yubabike, I got my first flat after 7 months (800 miles?).
BTW, I weighed the bike today after bringing home a load of groceries. 140 lb rear, 40 lb front without me. So gross weight with me in my winter fat, 350 lb. I have plenty of stopping power with 160 mm tekko mechanical disk brakes.

 

[PaD]

Wet grip.
Neither Schwalbe nor Continental show any value regarding wet grip for bicycle tires as far as I can see on their websites. ( Conti has charts for MC tires comparing, among other things, wet grip.)

On Continental’s site I find their rating for Safety Level wich is puncture protection.
For the there Continental Top Contact ll there is a quote on Conti’s website from a test by German magazine RADtouren saying ”Light, easy rolling allrounder with outstanding wet grip and good puncture protection”

According to https://www.bicyclerollingresistance.com/tour-reviews the Top Contact ll has less rolling resistance than Schwalbe Marathon Plus but the standard Marathon is better than the Conti.
These tests are from 2015.

Schwalbe website is showing values ( their own) for - Rolling, Road Grip, Off-Road Grip, Protection, Durability.
I can’t find anything about wet grip. But I may have missed something.
Maybe one can make assumptions regarding wet grip by comparing the listed characteristics

 

[Chris Hammond]

So I was very happy with the stock Kenda's on the CCS. I only replaced the rear due to wear at ~3500 miles. (The stock Kenda on the front is wearing so well, I don't think it will need a replacement until at least 10K miles) I have put a little over 1000 miles on the Continental Contact Plus that I used as a replacement. I bought this tire because it seems to have all the advantages of the Schwalbe Marathon Plus at about 40% lower price.
So far I honestly find the performance to be very similar to the Kenda. Wet traction has not been a problem yet, but that has been limited experience so far. Overall braking performance seems unchanged, but the front tire takes most of the load and its the same tire.
You are right about the tire tread shape, The stock Kendas have a wider flat area, and is functionally wider. I used a 700x 47C tire on the Continental, but the stock Kenda still had a wider tread.

 

[Jeffrios]

I'm still only about 900 miles on my stock tires and have a long way to go. My commute never sees wet pavement, or rarely. I'll probably go with the conti's or the Kenda's again. I've only had one flat with the Kenda's (A small piece of metal) Otherwise they have been performing well.

 

[Bruce Arnold]

The title of this thread is either misleading or designed to create controversy.

Worse in what way? For what purpose? Under what conditions?

Since I'm perfectly happy with my Marathon Plus tires - haven't had any issues under wet conditions for that matter - it seems like an odd statement.

That being said, I'm going to try the Contis that @Chris Hammond has mentioned several times when I need new tires. If they are as good or nearly as good at 60% of the price, I'm good with it.

 

[Bosus]

Another option to consider: I have marathon plus on my rear wheel for puncture resistance and treadlife, and a shchwalbe energizer on the front for braking grip. Ever consider leaving the kenda on the front and just swapping out the rear?

 

[Over50]

...The Schwalbe says it has "green guard" which I assume is some sort of slime in the tube...

There is no slime in the tube unless you put it there. Schwalbe's puncture protection ratings refer to the construction/layers of the tire. Per Schwalbe's website:
The highly elastic GreenGuard layer is 3 mm thick. One third of the GreenGuard is made up of recycled latex products.

 

[DDBB]

Ahhh.. that's what "green guard" is.. thanks

 

[2wheeler]

Schwalbe Marathon plus tires have good reviews on flat protection and 1000's of miles for wear. I hate flats and if that means $50 per tire I'm all for it. Especially on the rear. That Continental tire mentioned above might be good for the front. I'm keeping it listed in my favorites. As soon as a tire needs to come off this new bike you can bet a tire liner will be added to it just for insurance.

 

[John from Connecticut]

. The OEM Schwalbe Marathon on my wife's bike developed a bubble in the sidewall after the 1st twenty miles.. PSI was about 5 below max recommended and she didn't hit anything. It's being covered under warranty but in the meantime the LBS slapped a Kenda cross tire on the wheel for 20 bucks, half the cost of the Schwalbe. I have no idea about puncture protection or longevity for the Kenda. The Schwalbe says it has "green guard" which I assume is some sort of slime in the tube. The Kenda has a smooth center section and pretty aggressive knobbies on the sides for dirt/sand. Wife loves it but you can hear this tire on smooth pavement. Not so with the Schwalbe. I have bought those emergency tubes, a can of fix a flat, a small rechargeable pump, patch kit and a can of fix a flat for the inevitable.

Schwalbe's Green Guard is a 3mm thick liner between the tread and the tube.....

https://www.chainreactioncycles.com/us/en/schwalbe-marathon-touring-tyre-greenguard/rp-prod69133

I ride the Schwalbe's below because flat protection is my first priority. They've saved me once already....Pulled
a chunk of metal out of the blue 5mm liner on these. No problems. no flat.

https://www.schwalbetires.com/bike_tires/road_tires/Marathon_Plus_HS440

 

[steve mercier]

I have Marathon Mondials which are really good in the wet. Maybe its the tread pattern with slightly wider channels. Everything is a tradeoff ....harder rubber wears longer and softer sticks better and I think the Mondials are a good compromise.

 

[Feliz]

A good all season tire with hazard protection is the Marathon GT365

 

[john peck]

Others have made the same observation as you. I wouldn't use anything but Schwalbe but that's just me I guess mostly because I've never had a flat with a Schwalbe tire.

I´ve got the Schwalbes on 3 bikes, no flats either. That said, I still think the stock Kendas on the CCS held the road better*. I´m impressed with the
stock wheels. Given the pounding they´ve taken from me, They really hold their shape. Flipped a stick into the spokes,( wish they´d sweep the
bike lane once in a while). So a couple spokes(gee, i´m gettin good at this) Went to true up the wheel, took 20 min for the whole job, but
the wheel´s true to +1-mm. That ain´t bad for 3000 mi. hard riding. I´ve never touched the front whl. It´s dead on.
*I do think the Schwalbes last longer.

 

[Feliz]

Agree, I think the stock Kendas handle better but at 80 years old I'm not racing anyone. I wonder who makes the wheels on the CCS? Probably some no-name in China.