Say Hello To Storm

I ride regular fat bikes. There is much greater power demand on the system than any mountain bike or road bike. That is only for road which I hope no one is considering a fat bike on a paved road. It is horrible. Fat Bike riding is really only fun off road and basically in places where you can not ride any other bike. For low tide beach riding you can actually just use your mountain bike but a fat bike will do ok. For 'mountain biking', softer sand riding and riding in snow (which is what a Fat Bike is designed for) the Sonders is underpowered and does not have strong enough battery.
 
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Personally I wouldn't consider the insurance because I don't really care how long it takes to get it. Even if it goes past 30 days who cares. Before Christmas would be fine with me as long as I get one.

Right, but in that case, you would get the eBike for free. All you would have had to pay was the $120 for insurance.

I have yet to see any indication (or fine print) that says cashing in on the insurance (after August 31, if it hasn't been delivered) means you forfeit your right to receive it when it actually does ship.
 
Right, but in that case, you would get the eBike for free. All you would have had to pay was the $120 for insurance.

I have yet to see any indication (or fine print) that says cashing in on the insurance (after August 31, if it hasn't been delivered) means you forfeit your right to receive it when it actually does ship.

I would doubt that you get the refund and the bike.. Would make no sense for the insurer to offer something like that....

"Heads you win, Tails I lose?"
 
I'll be riding mine almost exclusively on pavement, and so will most of the others. I get the feeling most of these people are 90% nubes, looking for a commuter, and city trail bikes. With street tires rolling resistance won't be any different than other beach cruiser with big tires imo.

lol. have fun with that. You can save weight by not attaching a bell as everyone will hear your tires coming on the pavement. been there done that.
 
I would doubt that you get the refund and the bike.. Would make no sense for the insurer to offer something like that....

"Heads you win, Tails I lose?"

Well, all we've got now are these vague details:

Get your money back if you don't receive your Sondors eBike within 3 months after the estimated delivery date.
*Does not apply to the $199 Reserve Now, Pay Later perk option *
Insurance provided by Indiegogo

What is the "estimated delivery date?" May 31?

I'm struggling with the notion of Indiegogo being the insurance provider here. It seems to present a clear (and somewhat awkward) conflict of interest. If they're going to introduce insurance (pricey, at that) there really need to be very specific fine-print laid out, so we know precisely what's covered, and how.

That said, Sondors' recent update did clarify a bit of their perspective on the matter, which made me feel a bit better about it, at least in how it relates this specific campaign:

Hi all, just to clarify. We approached Indiegogo about the possibility of insurance, as Indiegogo had offered it in the past to a select few qualified campaigns. As you know, there were some people doubting the campaign's credibility and ability to fulfill. While we welcome scrutiny and criticism when it is due, there was also a large amount of speculation and assumptions being made. We wanted to help alleviate concerns of our backers and potential future backers.

To be considered for Indiegogo's program, we had to disclose our fulfillment and manufacturing process, which is something that we cannot dopublicly. After much dialogue and review, Indiegogo granted the campaign this option.

Indiegogo's Trust and Safety team has no reason to doubt our sincere efforts to complete the project.

This is only the third campaign on which Indiegogo has done so. This is meant to show everyone that we are fully committed to you, the backers and to put an end to the naysayers out there, which has quieted greatly since Demo Day.

Please note, this is an option, not mandatory and is a sign of our fulfillment process being reviewed by Indiegogo. We are happy about this option as Indiegogo regularly develops and tests new features and we are continuing to work to fulfill our obligations to you, the backers.

Again, Indiegogo's Trust and Safety team has no reason to doubt our sincere efforts to complete the project.

Finally, this perk insurance is an option available to all backers, current and future. There are a limited number of policies available to any backer on a first come, first serve basis as part of this pilot test. Indiegogo will then evaluate demand for insurance as this test progresses.

If you would like Perk Insurance, you can get it here.
 
Also, is anyone here a member of the Sondors Owners Group on Facebook?

I’m a backer and hopefully-soon-to-be-owner of a Sondors eBike, and I’d like to chat with other owners, but when I try to access that group, it says I don't have permission. (I think I was blocked earlier because I hadn't made my contribution to the campaign yet.)

Can anyone here please assist in getting me in touch with "Chris," the person who created the group, so that I can get reinstated?
 
There's a difference between healthy skepticism with a "show me" Missouri mindset and "hoping a new venture will fail." I mean the bike itself will still be a bike, it will still have 2 round tires and pedals and will be able to be ridden. The range, power, charging and all those details remain to be seen when in the hands of the purchasers and their real world experiences.

I think most of us (I count among them) think the hype for hype's sake is dumb, for lack of a better word. It isn't that this bike is better, it's that a lot of people are willing to part with around $600 - $900 to fund this guy's initial attempt at importing an eBike at this particular price point. The quality might be like a Kmart bike with a lithium battery & motor in the end. Or maybe better. Time will tell.
 
Seems silly and maybe a little paranoid to think the industry and the non buying public want you to fail. I really don't consider the principals involved here but I would like this proposal to be successful. Like @PowerMe I'm one of the skeptics.

During the first days of this campaign I went onto the Indiegogo/Storm/comments page and the whole idea of this thing took on a whole new meaning. I could never be accused of having a bleeding heart but due to personal reasons when I read a women's comments it suddenly got serious for me. She had wrote that since her stroke she could no longer drive a car and that this ebike was the answers to her prayers for freedom and transport. She didn't have the ability to use a pedal bike and thought this ebike would be the answer. The comments were heartfelt. I wondered how many others that "donated" were in the same boat. I got the impression this 700.00 purchase was a major purchase, not a cheap bike for her.

I took this serious from the start! I didn't pick the bike or campaign apart, even though at times it seemed to need to be critiqued. @Court will do his usual great job evaluating this bike when/if he takes delivery. Until then I will try to leave this bike alone and hope that women gets a bike that will give her the freedom and transport she prayed for. This could be far more important for a lot of people than a few hundred bucks.
 
Well, all we've got now are these vague details:



What is the "estimated delivery date?" May 31?

I'm struggling with the notion of Indiegogo being the insurance provider here. It seems to present a clear (and somewhat awkward) conflict of interest. If they're going to introduce insurance (pricey, at that) there really need to be very specific fine-print laid out, so we know precisely what's covered, and how.

That said, Sondors' recent update did clarify a bit of their perspective on the matter, which made me feel a bit better about it, at least in how it relates this specific campaign:


Fofer, all the information is available on the indiegogo website, but I'll be happy to go over it with you.

It says the campaign ends on March 3rd. Near the end of the campaign you'll be informed of color options, and you'll get to select your color option at that time. Storm will order the bikes from the factory in march. This will probably be the biggest single order in history. The bikes will start being shipped in May. They're supposed to arrive at their destinations within 3 months after that.

Storm has indicated the factory has a 12,000, to 14,000 bike production run capacity. If the order ends up exceeding the production capacity, there will a second production run that will ship in September.

If you're worried about this, for $120 per bike you can buy insurance protection, and you'll get your money back, minus $120 if the bike is not delivered within the 3 month period, which I'm guessing will end about the last day of August. Indiegogo is underwriting the insurance.
 
I am also in the same camp of wanting this to be successful - I've been reading this thread awhile, checked out the bike briefly but never read through the entire indiegogo page until just now. It seems they have tapered a lot of the details to relatively realistic expectations, with the exception being the distance on a charge seeming unrealistic (though as has been mentioned many times, this kind of thing is kind of common in the e-bike industry).

I bought a neo xtrem last year and it is a fun bike to ride, but I ended up buying a non-electric (bikes direct boris x7) fat bike in the early fall that is a ton of fun to ride. Motor options are few and far between (just starting to come to market really) - I still think a mid-drive is ideal for a fat bike, but the two cheapest options are still close to/over a grand just for the motor! em3ev has just started offering long axle rear motors for fat bikes, so I will likely go that route, but I am thinking about buying the upcoming stunner instead from biktrix.

I saw the storm when it came out, and while it is priced great, and I do hope buyers are happy, to me it sort of misses the fat bike mark. Single speed on a fat bike would be a lot of work even without the added weight of the motor and battery - all but the strongest riders could very well end up stranded if you're out and that battery dies. the 30 mile claim might be true for a small rider on a flat surface and severely over-inflated tires (they say 30psi in the description, most often fat bikes are ridden with psi in the single digits to low teens at most), but if the bike is truly used where fat bikes go, 15 miles/charge might even be pushing it.

With that said, I'd bet a lot of buyers intend to use it around town and on the street, and although that isn't really the intended venue for a fat bike, I do think those kind of buyers will be satisfied in the end - I hope that is the case, because the more people get in on the ground level, the better it is for the industry as a whole.
 
Bike is too cheap and too underpowered for actual fatbiking.
This is pretty much it but I don't think it matters because I'm guessing the people that bought into this are not your typical 'fat bike people.' You would get laughed off the trails if you showed up on a Storm.

As with most fat bikes its attention grabbing but the similarities stop there. This is basically a beach cruiser with fatter knobbier wheels.

Well, biknut - my NJ BS meter has dropped from 99% down to right about 50% after watching Courts interview. I hope the guy pulls it off, and delivers on his word. I will say that my NJ BS meter was redlining when the Agency 2.0 guy was on camera. I sorta felt like taking a shower after watching that guy, know what I mean? Anyway, I gotta get back to the sideline, before J.R and Gus finish the popcorn.

Clark

I'll go ahead and say it: that Agency 2.0 guy is about as douchey as they come. This guy gives me a sleezy vibe.

Now Storm, I don't mind him. He seems clueless about some things but genuinely seems like a nice guy that wants to get people riding. Thats a good guy in my book.

In other news, I have just purchased some Orville Redenbacher stock due to a recent spike in demand.
 
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Also, is anyone here a member of the Sondors Owners Group on Facebook?

I’m a backer and hopefully-soon-to-be-owner of a Sondors eBike, and I’d like to chat with other owners, but when I try to access that group, it says I don't have permission. (I think I was blocked earlier because I hadn't made my contribution to the campaign yet.)

Can anyone here please assist in getting me in touch with "Chris," the person who created the group, so that I can get reinstated?

Fofer, I mentioned you, but no one knows your face book name so they can't figure out how to let you in
 
I'll go ahead and say it: that Agency 2.0 guy is about as douchey as they come. This guy gives me a sleezy vibe.

LOLOL! I watched that part of the interview with you in mind, Gus. That guy is so much like one or two of the guys I recently had to work with on a contract assignment I was on for about 8 months. Kind of "cooler-than-thou" affect.
 
Congrats biknut! https://www.indiegogo.com/projects/sondors-electric-bike#activity

I'm sad to see my posts crapping all over this thing aren't update worthy :(

LOLOL! I watched that part of the interview with you in mind, Gus. That guy is so much like one or two of the guys I recently had to work with on a contract assignment I was on for about 8 months. Kind of "cooler-than-thou" affect.
Haha! I call it like I see it. I gave the guy the benefit of the doubt until he started talking. Then it was confirmed -> total d-bag. I will from this day forward blame all the lies, deception, and general retardedness of the website specs on this Agency 2.0 guy.
 
Congrats biknut! https://www.indiegogo.com/projects/sondors-electric-bike#activity

I'm sad to see my posts crapping all over this thing aren't update worthy :(


Haha! I call it like I see it. I gave the guy the benefit of the doubt until he started talking. Then it was confirmed -> total d-bag. I will from this day forward blame all the lies, deception, and general retardedness of the website specs on this Agency 2.0 guy.

Gus, I won't be surprised to see his face on a Post Office wall someday o_O Back when this thread started who woulda thunk 359 posts later people would be talking about buying insurance on whether this thing gets delivered on time - next week when they offer airbags on this thing as a last minute add on, I'm in. Pass the popcorn :D

Clark
 
I''m still having trouble with the insurance, $120 gets you a refund of the bike and shipping costs? something paypal does for free? .. whilst I can see the reasons to subscribe to a crowd funding campaign for a genuinely new invention (like the Copenhagen wheel).. the only reason I can see that a supplier of an already established product (IE a rebadged alibaba bike) .. is to transfer all or most of the risk involved with set up costs from the entrepreneur to the customer. are the laws covering such things substantially different between crowdfunding and straight out purchase?

Assuming the bike fails.... (note well, this is a hypothetical exercise, I'm not hoping for this to happen, just a mental exercise, playing Devils advocate if you will)..
What legal recourse would one have if Sondors didn't deliver, I'm sure Indiegogo has themselves well and truly covered (however would their offer of insurance be a tacit admission that this could be a risky venture?), would 2.0 face any liability (assuming they didn't just crawl back into the gutter).. what about Mr Sondors himself?


Hadnt realised price had risen to $699.. and is about to go higher? would having more orders not increase exonomies of scale and make it easier to maintain the initial price ?
 
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Wa5, the perk insurance is pants, is non-refundable - and only pays out if something is not delivered three months after the "estimated" delivery date. Is it May 1st or May 31st? On a different site one member has tried to reassure me that indiegogo's trust and validation dept have verified the manufacturing possibilities and delivery schedule lol - yes +\- 3 months with such confidence that the perk insurance is actually nearly 25% of the initial pledge amount! No drawings, no specs, see my other thread on the Sondors forums detailing how they are making this up as they go along, first bike was 45 lbs, 380w direct drive motor, hydraulic brakes, erroneous performance figures, everything manufactured inhouse - the only thing they can possibly do is hand the one bike they have over to a Chinese manufacturer and plead with them to do something cheap, that is if they don't take the money and run. The maths and the physics don't add up, they never did.
 
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