I’ve ridden the Specialized Turbo Como with the Brose motor and they are quite snappy. The upright position with the big tires is really comfortable to ride. A little low on power though (~550W peak) which can feel underwhelming when you’re used to having 900-1000W. The jury still seems to be out on the reliability of Brose motors. If you read the Specialized forum there are no shortage of examples of people having problems with them and it’s not really a user serviceable item. Throttles are really addictive once you’re used to them. Really helps in stop and go riding to get these 50-60lbs bikes back up to speed.
Ride1UP Mid Drive Teaser
- Thread starter Achterbahn
- Start date
FlatSix911
Well-Known Member
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- Silicon Valley
With Brose and Specialized... the internal belt drive motor has been the weak link.
Asher
Well-Known Member
Damn that does not sound appetizing. I'd gladly take a hub drive version of the Prodigy instead, preferably bigger battery, for $2k. I'd have to spend $400 on parts if I bought the LMTD to get the bike I want (rigid fork, rack, fenders, handlebars, lighter tires, lights).
I just saw that Sondors announced a motorcycle. It's kinda frustrating that despite being around for five years or so they still haven't done an honest to God commuter ebike, but now they're doing a huge motorcycle.Nice looking bike. Let's see if they Sondors this up.
There are some things I don't like about the LMTD, including the torque sensor assist not being well tuned and responsive, and the motor is noisier, but I actually prefer its air fork and wider tires vs. some other bikes like the 500. But Kevin says they are switching the LMTD to use a cadence sensor. He said they still have 400 LMTDs left with the torque sensor, although their website says they are out of stock.
Achterbahn
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Many of us too. However, since the torque sensor on the LMT'D wasn't all that well tuned and a lot of their old clientele is used to cadence, they got a lot of complaints and people wishing it had a cadence sensor. In the end, I guess they decided that for the LMT'D (not the mid drive bike we're discussing here) they'll go back to cadence.
Is that a limitation of the bottom bracket torque sensors? My Juiced Bikes Cross Current has the TMM4 clone which does torque and cadence. You can turn the torque sensor off in the settings and just run it on cadence sensing only if you want to. I watched a YouTube video of the LMT’d with a newer controller with better torque sensor tuning but I guess they decided to abandon it altogether?
A well designed and correctly used cadence sensor system won't feel like it's just turning on and off while riding, especially if you're continuously pedaling along on the open road, not stopping/starting or ghost pedaling. For technical mountain bike riding where you are changing up your pedaling force a lot, I would definitely want a torque sensor PAS. It's getting off topic for this thread, but there's an existing thread on the topic here:
Torque sensor vs Cadence...
I have just begun the daunting task of researching the different brands, models & technical features available on eBikes. (No small task, lol) My aim is to buy a bike (maybe two,) that has the features, performance, comfort, reliability & customer support that meets my needs. EBR YouTube videos...
electricbikereview.com
There was a lot of pulsing with the first Gen LMTD. One of the first owners here even returned his bike because it was so bad. Someone else on this forum kept it but posted videos of the effect. I know there were some youtube videos showing the effect of the Gen1 with the original vs. updated controller, which was part of the Gen2 LMTD. In addition to the controller change, they also changed to a better display with Gen2. And it was an improvement. But there were still a lot of complaints about the poor performance of the LMTD. In fact, most of the feedback I saw was AFTER the Gen2 batch with the new KD218 display and new controller. It was enough to keep me from getting a LMTD, even though I know the potential advantages of a well turned torque sensor PAS.
Yes, Kevin is the owner of Ride1Up, and they are switching to cadence on the LMTD, but he said just a couple days or so ago that they still had 400 of the torque sensor version left.
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Kevin never admitted that there was anything inherently wrong with their torque sensor based pedal assist system. He sent new controllers to some Gen2 owners reporting problems who sometimes had better experiences with a replacement controller, but not always. In one of his interviews, he implied that it was the customers' expectations that was the real problem. But I don't hear those complaints coming from owners of mainstream bikes from Trek and the like getting their first e-bikes using torque sensors. So, it's got to be something specific about the LMTD. Interestingly, some LMTD owners love them. Heck, I wish I could ride a LMTD just so I could see for myself, but it looks like the experience will vary from one LMTD to the next of the same generation, which explains why some people love them and others complain about the poor performance.
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Achterbahn
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One hypothesis might also be that the traditional ride1up customer is used to cadence sensor. Used to a bike that is purely for getting from A to B easily, where you can loosely spin the pedals and get to 28mph, like a foot activated throttle. A torque sensing bike will stop responding if you stop putting effort into it.
Asher
Well-Known Member
There is no traditional customer for a company that's 1-2 years old, and for whom many if not most customers it's their first ebike ever. And there is no evidence for cadence sensors warping people's expectations.
Ravi has said that getting torque sensors working well takes a lot of work, even when you have the right part apparently. Presumably Ride didn't do that. I would think that the torque sensor maker would make it as easy as possible to use their part properly, but then again corner cutting in low end bike manufacturing is super common so I guess this shouldn't be that surprising. "Chabuduo."
Torque sensor performance
Hey JB riders, I was wondering if you could provide some feedback on the torque sensor used in Juiced Bikes. From your experience, how has been the torque sensor performance? Has it been 100% reliable? Did you have to reset it anytime? How is the response time and sensitivity range at...
electricbikereview.com
Agreed. It's just an excuse. And I'm sure there have been people with cadence PAS bikes that later got mainstream low wattage torque sensor PAS bikes, and I haven't seen them complaining about the performance.
Asher
Well-Known Member
Ride still shows the preorder batch of LMTDs as having torque sensors. Maybe they're still working them out?
Would be good if they said what if anything changed between batches.
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Quick514Biker
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Nothing has changed with their decision. Those pre-order batch of LMT'D will arrive sometime in February & all still torque. When those final 400 or so LMT'D bikes are gone, the new LMT'D bikes will be cadence sensor bike only. The Ride1Up owner Kevin has not totally closed the idea of somehow bringing back the torque sensor back to this bike.
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No, my previous comment still applies in that they still had 400 of the torque sensor version left, and that was of about 9 days ago.
Kevin specifically said in an interview that he wouldn't substitute a cadence sensor for a torque sensor if someone was ordering expecting a torque sensor. So, it's not too late if you're interested. I've actually been thinking about going with the LMTD myself, but I also like the 700 quite a bit. And I came very close to ordering the 500 last summer, but right when I went to order, I saw they had pushed off the shipment date from what it had shown just a day earlier, so I bailed. And the Core-5 would probably be fine for me also. So, I hope to score one of these bikes this year. Last year, I waited too long to start checking into e-bikes.
Asher
Well-Known Member
I didn't realize you were referring to bikes yet to arrive, thought you meant bikes in stock.
You might find a suitable R ebike on Craigslist too, just make sure you get a reasonable discount off MSRP.
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Oh, I mentioned that the website said they were out of stock earlier in the thread when I mentioned the quantity of 400 because that caught my attention also. I just figured that Kevin was referring to what's in the supply chain already. He mentioned in the past that they assembled and disassembled the bikes before shipping over and that a missing part could be because customs inspected it and left it out.
