Review: New LMT'D - new owner's perspective
- Thread starter Lumpydog
- Start date
Thanks dad
It was kind of funny, because forum threads so often go off topic, way off topic. There's a very recent thread on this forum that got into motorcycles and sail boats. That's typical of forums. It seem everything posted here has something to do with the LMT'D (not LMT) or Ride1Up or the decision about purchasing one or more of those e-bikes.
@Lumpydog I was thinking about the LMT'D and the amount of assist provided in low PAS (1/9) on level ground in regards to getting a good workout and your heart rate elevated significantly without having to pedal 20 miles per hour to get to that point, but maybe 12 to 15 mph and get a good workout for the average person. What do you think based on your experience? Of course, I realize you could turn off the assist entirely, but that's 20 pounds heavier and much wider tires than my current hybrid, so that would be too slow, especially the inclines.
Also, what is the maximum speed you have been able to ride on level ground?
The new LCD appears to allow you to adjust individual power assist levels individually, such as changing 1/9 from 25% down to 20% or such type of change, but I haven't heard definitively whether those options work with the new LMT'D controller and software, which could affect the answer to the first question. I realize you do not have that LCD, though, to give any feedback on that.
@Lumpydog I was thinking about the LMT'D and the amount of assist provided in low PAS (1/9) on level ground in regards to getting a good workout and your heart rate elevated significantly without having to pedal 20 miles per hour to get to that point, but maybe 12 to 15 mph and get a good workout for the average person. What do you think based on your experience? Of course, I realize you could turn off the assist entirely, but that's 20 pounds heavier and much wider tires than my current hybrid, so that would be too slow, especially the inclines.
Also, what is the maximum speed you have been able to ride on level ground?
The new LCD appears to allow you to adjust individual power assist levels individually, such as changing 1/9 from 25% down to 20% or such type of change, but I haven't heard definitively whether those options work with the new LMT'D controller and software, which could affect the answer to the first question. I realize you do not have that LCD, though, to give any feedback on that.
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All the ride1up bikes are nice. My son has the R1up 500 and he can go plenty fast. The battery seems very efficient also. He has regular disk brakes, my e bike has hydraulic, but he can stop just as well. One benefit is the 500 without fenders and rack is lighter than my bike.
Mike N.
Active Member
Don't take it personally. I'm not bashing any individual.
One more update today - Ride1Up sent out a newsletter today - there were a few good articles. One article titled "eBike Ownership: What Not To Do" recommended keeping your battery's charge level between 30% and 80%. So how do you do that? I bought one of these Cycle Satiator chargers and one of these adapters that allows the Satiator to charge the LMT'D - you can order the charger direct from Grin technologies as well (add 3-pin XLR cable adapter "XLR_DC2.5"). The Satiator is a great charger and let's you program it to fast charge to 100%, or slow charge to whatever percent you want - for example, 80%. Which prolongs the life of a typical e-bike battery. The Satiator is not inexpensive. I believe Luna makes a compatible charger that works with the LMT'D's battery and does the same undercharging for less $$ than the Satiator but you would need to source a 2.5mm DC adapter - not sure if Luna supplies this adapter.
I initially charged my LMT'D battery to 100% with the R1Up supplied charger to let the battery management system fully balance the batteries. Good to do this regularly.
Good video here that covers the "ins and outs" of charging an ebike battery - don't feel obligated to take this undercharging approach. I'm a geek - I get into this stuff. It's not necessary and probably overkill for this bike.
I initially charged my LMT'D battery to 100% with the R1Up supplied charger to let the battery management system fully balance the batteries. Good to do this regularly.
Good video here that covers the "ins and outs" of charging an ebike battery - don't feel obligated to take this undercharging approach. I'm a geek - I get into this stuff. It's not necessary and probably overkill for this bike.
With the new controller - the PAS levels make a difference in how much you work. With 9 levels, you can find one that gives you the right amount of workout... or just push it to level 9 and fly.
With the new controller and no head wind, 30 mph - but you work for it.
I think that setting is really for cadence sensor bikes as the Torque sensor feels your input and should decide the level of assist (within the selected PAS range) for you... I've found on the LMT'D, that the 500C display‘s 1-9 setting is really more about the speed ceiling for the assist. Basically setting the max speed your pedal input will go up to with motor assist before you are on your own - or at least doing most of the work. We'll see when the Aug LMT'Ds ship - does that setting effect anything with the KD218 controller...?
No way you are getting to 28-30 mph at PAS level 1. But PAS level 9, yep.
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OK. Thanks for that update. I'm not sure how I feel about that. I was hoping you could limit the maximum output of the torque sensor based PAS to a percentage of maximum power regardless of speed when under 28 mph rather than a full cutoff at a given speed. So, if you're in a low assist level setting that cuts off assist at 12 mph (just as a theoretical cutoff speed), and you're pedaling to go about the same speed over a mile stretch, can you feel the motor cutting off and on as you straddle this threshold in the 11 to 13 mph range? I'm trying to envision how distracting this would be cruising down miles of country roads trying to limit the assistance if I feel/hear the power assistance kicking on and off, not to be confused with the unrelated cutting out issue with the old controller that you experienced.
Any idea what the speed cutoff is for PAS 1 to 3 ?
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Lumpydog, On July 1 in this thread you posted a video showing the motor going on and off while maintaining the relatively same cadence and pedal pressure. This was a fantastic post. You completely captured the problem. I watched the video and said, yes, this is exactly what my Limited is doing. Using the same PAS settings, could you possibly make another video to demonstrate the difference in the motor performance with the new controller and display? I think this would be invaluable to present and potential future Limited owners.
Thank you!
Thank you!
Mike N.
Active Member
There is very limited customer experience with the LMT so far so every owners comments are appreciated especially Lumpy's. I sold my 2019 Giant Explore E + 3 today. Very sophisticated E-bike but I missed a throttle and the motor is designed to cut off at 20 mph without some type of aftermarket electronic override. My friend purchased a Dost Drop and I'm very impressed with the build quality and performance. He is 77 and I can't keep up with him on my 500 watt hub motor. The Dost models share the same Schwalbe Super-Moto X Tires tires, Tektro Auriga brakes and battery size with the LMT. I would rather pay $1795.00 instead of $2800.00 but I'll wait a few weeks and see what the new LMT owners have to say.
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No prob, I meant the response in a joking way. I agree the thread was hijacked
LMT'D, and definitely Lumpy's, as he is the only one on the forum confirmed to have the new controller at this point, which affects the torque sensor based PAS response significantly compared to his earlier testing.
There is no cutoff per se - the motor continues to assist - at all PAS settings. I'd more characterise it as - the motor will take you up to a certain speed - and then you will have to take it from there. I went out for a ride to get some coffee this AM and tested this. I found that, at each PAS my light/medium pedal input would have me cruising at a certain speed on flat surfaces.
PAS 1 = 10 mph
PAS 2 = 14 mph
PAS 3 = 16 mph
PAS 4 and 5 were super similar = 17 mph
PAS 6 = 18 mph
PAS 7 = 20 mph
PAS 9 = 21-22 mph
This was me just adding light/medium peddling input on a flat surface. If I pedalled medium/hard, add about 4-5 mph of motor assist. If I pedalled hard add about 7-8 mph of motor assist. The 500C display does not let you adjust the percentage at each PAS level and I'm not sure that's necessary for a torque sensor bike. A cadence sensor bike "see you pedal" and is on/off. You don't want 100% motor input at PAS 1, so the PAS levels adjust the percentage of motor input accordingly to increase with each PAS level - it appears the KD218 allows you to tweak this on the 500 and 700s. I'm unsure how it would effect - or if it would be enabled on the LMT'D when they ship next month.
I can have the LMTD on PAS 9 and be barely giving torque input to the pedals and the bike's motor will come on but it will be on low/creep (it won't just cut in and suddenly jump/go) and the motor will increase slowly relative to my increasing torque input on the pedals. This feels natural. With the updated controller, the motor behaves more as advertised w/regard to torque sensor bikes. Not on/off, rather increasing and decreasing power relative to what I input to the the pedals and what the bike "feels" from me.
Wings02 - I captured video and will post later today.
This is good news to know it's not cutting off assist based on speed and will continue to assist with some percentage of power with correlation to pedal power as well. So, it's operating as I would have expected, applying less power at lower assist levels while still correlating the power to pedaling force. While you are able to reach certain speeds on the flats with those assist levels while pedaling at different intensities, I'm not convinced the system is actually using speed as an input factor into calculating the power to deliver. I think you would need to repeat the test going uphill or downhill to see if those speed results per assist level change to confirm that. If it's just a pedaling and power algorithm for a given assist level that doesn't factor in speed, then you should see slower results uphill and faster results downhill when using the same pedaling effort on a given assist level as your earlier test. If speed is being used as an input factor, then the bike should compensate for inclines/declines in order to get the same speed results as earlier testing.
The 10 mph speed on flats with light/medium pedaling seems a little high (fast) to me for the lowest assist level, which is even faster with more pedaling effort, and faster yet (I assume) with strong tailwinds and on declines/downhill. That's where tweaking the assist level to a lower maximum power level would be useful, even with the torque sensor based PAS. Hopefully those config settings will be available with the LMT'D when using the new LCD KD218.
Thank you for taking the time to test this out and provide your feedback to those of us on the forum who are interested in the LMD'T.
Ride1Up should at least reimburse you for the additional money you sent them due to the original issue when you were attempting to purchase the new LCD.
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Haha - easy enough to do this stuff - just take my phone with me on the ride and video. Below is a video of my LMT'D using the same PAS as the last video BUT with the new controller. Same flat section of road. Reminder - the iPhone really amplifies the motor noise for some reason. It's much quieter in real life - but actually helpful for these videos to have it amplified.
Note - the clicking is a metal clip on my backpack.
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You may be right about the KD218 providing more refinement on PAS levels. That would be a nice addition.
I should also add - that your riding experience may be different than mine. I weigh 183 lbs - weight will effect performance. Also what I call light/medium pedaling may be different for others!
Well, I wouldn't say I'm right or wrong, either way. lol I'm just "hoping" the option will be available if I choose to get the LMT'D, but without knowing for certain, I have to be prepared that it might not be an available config on the LMD'T. It's not a show stopper.
I might be down to 183 by the time I get an e-bike at this rate! lol Seriously! I can't even compare my own medium pedal power to myself from one ride to the next. I'm able to generate more power some days than other days with no explanation (no difference in caffeine, eating, soreness, temp, etc. that I can put my finger on). I might take one ride where my heart rate is 150+ for a sustained amount of time, then take a ride a day or two later, and have trouble keeping my heart rate above 130, which correlates with lower speeds. Just yesterday was a weak ride for me, after taking a full day off Sunday from riding to recover from my 66 mile ride Saturday night, I took a 12 mile ride yesterday, and my heart rate was averaging about 130, and fell to 120 on a flats late in the ride (still pedaling), and I could not overcome it, and I ended up with a lower average speed on a typical route that I take. Before getting on the bike, I don't know whether it's going to be a strong ride or weak ride. Of course, on the really long rides, I prefer the lower heart rate so that my body can efficiently burn fat to sustain my energy, and I'll even let up intentionally so my heart rate isn't too high for too long on those long rides, but I like to produce more power at a higher heart rate when taking rides under 20 miles.
I like your new video. It definitely sounds much more consistent in the power delivery now. The speedometer is working as well. I wonder how I'm going to like the sound of an e-bike motor at low assist when cruising along at 15 mph through the countryside. I'm used to it being pretty quiet on my standard hybrid, until I get on those roads that have been resurfaced with a thin layer of gravel, or worse, a thick layer of gravel just dropped on top! Those suckers are noisy, less smooth, and slow me down.
Super important point I forgot to make. The iPhone really picks up the motor noise (I’ll edit that post to let others know). In real life it’s WAY quieter.
Picture of my bike from today:
