Radrover Controller & Display Upgrade Kit

[AHicks]

I really appreciate the flurry of options. Especially as it relates to Grin as they are in Vancouver (we are on Vancouver Island).

I think for now I will go the Bolton route. Depending on the results I might then strip those parts off my Rover and put them on the Wagon to give that bike a boost while I go further down the rabbit hole of even more powerful options for the Rover...

To be honest, I am really only looking for these benefits:

• Faster off the mark, the Rover's torque is a joke - maybe it's the soft start?
• Faster up hills, the Rover's limit of 500w makes it drop to 10-15km/h on hills
• Longer range, I'm yet to run out of battery but I do hope to use our bikes to take the kids on longer rides, potentially even an overnight camping trip (still need to sort out how best to attach the trailer to the Rover for this though).

Cheers,

John

"Rabbit hole" - no kidding!

And that "soft start"? Granny stuff. I get it for rookies, but for Pete's sake, give us the ability to turn that crap off..... -Al

 

[johnz]

So.... here's one for you.

• Bolton controller, $219
• Bafang "true" 750w upgraded motor, $249
• 52v Battery, $529
• Upgraded hydraulic brakes, $149

That's approx $1200 USD in upgrades, I might be able to recover some of that but let's be honest, I'll keep the spare battery for the wife's bike, the rest I won't be able to sell for much...

So then, I see the new Bolton Blackbird which is on pre-order for $2199 USD with basically all of that as stock.

I have less than 100km on my Radrover and really love the bike, it's just its componentry that needs upgrading. Am I crazy to be considering selling it amidst this crazy demand for e-bikes and switching to the Blackbird?

Oh no, I've fallen down the rabbit hole already.

 

[Kyogiro]

So.... here's one for you.

• Bolton controller, $219
• Bafang "true" 750w upgraded motor, $249
• 52v Battery, $529
• Upgraded hydraulic brakes, $149

That's approx $1200 USD in upgrades, I might be able to recover some of that but let's be honest, I'll keep the spare battery for the wife's bike, the rest I won't be able to sell for much...

So then, I see the new Bolton Blackbird which is on pre-order for $2199 USD with basically all of that as stock.

I have less than 100km on my Radrover and really love the bike, it's just its componentry that needs upgrading. Am I crazy to be considering selling it amidst this crazy demand for e-bikes and switching to the Blackbird?

Oh no, I've fallen down the rabbit hole already.

No, quite frankly it I were in the US, I would go for Bolton Blackbird instead of purchasing a Rover and upgrading it.

Selling your current Rad in order to buy the Blackbird might be a faster and more economic way to get what you want. A fast and powerful electronic fatbike. To out it bluntly, it's the stuff.

Sadly, in Europe that kind of choice has been removed from our hands. All in an all, can't really complain either, Rad still has one of the best offering at this price point and my city (Paris) gives me back 500 euros from my purchase, so even more interesting (basically, this finances the controller and a new motor if needs be).

 

[AHicks]

So here's the concept I'm mulling over, and have been long enough where's I'm probably going to do it.

1400. New Rad Rover
-400. for the sale of ALL Rover electrical, including controller, hub motor and rear wheel, minus the battery.
1100. GMAC internal geared hub upgrade, including variable regen. (includes Phaserunner controller)
200. Quality 3-4" Street tires (quiet, approx)
150. Suspension seat post.
--------
2450.

Time to assemble, a couple of days tinkering at retired old man speed. Time to sort out to EXACTLY what I want, I'll give that a couple of weeks.

A true "sleeper" if there ever was one.

Nothing even close available, especially considering that price range...... yet.

 

[Kyogiro]

I saw the video made by Justin about Grin's new Gmac motor with regen. Been curious since to see it installed on a fatbike.

@AHicks, I'm eager to sea your definitive build and the overall performance.

 

[AHicks]

The lower price of the Rover is the key to keeping the project cost affordable. The fact the parts removed from it are pretty easily sold because there are so many in service counts too!

I have a similar project now, based on a Rad City, the KT electronics like Bolton's, and a MAC 12t geared rear hub (torque monster). That bike has all the power I'd ever want, even with the controller set to limit available power to 1100 - 1200 watts. I judge that bike as a huge success - and the reason I'm pretty motivated with this Rover project.

Oh, and battery size. The 'City project, with it's 3 year old stock battery (14ah), still has a range of 35 miles as long as you don't get too lazy. Fat tires of a Rover project will cut into that, BUT, we are talking about a bike capable of providing a pretty significant amount of regen. that might help offset the losses due to the fat tires. Plenty of if's, and's, and maybe's here for sure!

Noteworthy, for those that don't already know, I'm a pretty active 69 year old 6'2" and 315 lbs., do ALL of my own work (couldn't care less about warranty), and a pretty accomplished DIY'er. -Al

 

[johnz]

The fact the parts removed from it are pretty easily sold because there are so many in service counts too!

Again, thanks to all of you for the input. For me, for where I'm at I'm going to slowly go down the Bolton upgrade path.

I know this forum has good Buy / Sell but I am wondering if anyone has other suggestions too for where to sell parts I pull off the bike? Note that I am north of the wall, up here in Canada.

 

[AHicks]

Re: sale of parts. I wouldn't be too concerned about being in Canada. I get "stuff" from Canadian sellers all the time.

 

[johnz]

I just noticed something.. does Bolton not sell a 52V (58.8V) charger?

I didn't dig too deep on this as I think if I replace the battery on the Rover I will buy that from Grin as they are in Canada and it's easier shipping for me.

Speaking of which, do you or anyone here have experience running batteries in parallel? Specifically I am considering a new battery for my bike and putting both Rad batteries on my wife's. I know I can just swap one for the other when it dies but was dreaming of running in parallel but I read some concerns on how to charge them. The BMS circuit may not be able to prevent an overcharge on the battery that is charging through the discharge port if wired in parallel?

 

[johnz]

Yeah I think @harryS has done it. I think as long as the voltage is fine it should be fine??

From the limited knowledge I can find, the voltage needs to be the same (not a problem when both are the same battery from Rad) and they just simply combine both cables out into one and the controller will see it as one large battery. However, it seems there are potentially 2 problems which I would want clarification on before going that route:

• The batteries can charge as one with the discharge cable on one acting as the charging cable from the other but not all batteries are able to detect when a battery is overcharging when charged in this way and can lead to a fire. Not sure if Rad batteries have the ability to detect or not.
• If charged separately, you have the hassle of needing to uncouple them everytime you charge and it seems there is a risk (not sure what it is) if one battery is lower charge than the other when you reconnect them...

 

[AHicks]

Running 2 LiPo's in parallel is commonly done in radio control with no downside, so I can see that piece of this puzzle working fine. It's the charging thing that I can't get my head wrapped around - mostly because of the BMS's involved. There's something else too though.

With them coupled, in the case of an overload, or where the low voltage cut off is coming into play, would be more head scratchers.

So I thought maybe, a switch. There are left-right-both switches available for marine applications. Something like that might work out well if you could find a place to put it so it didn't look terrible. Set for left or right would let you charge them.

That would allow you to run either battery, or both together, simply by flipping the switch.

 

[RobbyThEMonK]

I have the Bolton Mod on my 2019 Rover. I think you will be happy with it. The improvement in performance is significant. It's pretty easy to do on the Rover took about 90 minutes. You do need to be careful with power usage as it's a bit addictive. I wish there was an one touch eco / get me home mode.

On the more recent shipments with the rear light option, Bolton includes some longer screws and nylock nuts in the kit. You can re-use the old clamps on the Rover. I made a couple of small metal backing plates and double sided taped a strip of rubber between frame and controller. On the stock controller the rear light wiring exits at the top, on the new 35 Amp controller it exits with all the other cables at the bottom. Bolton also includes a short cable extension to accommodate that. My bike has the fenders which are now stock, I did not want the controller to touch the fender so I added a couple of washer between lower fender mount and frame. There is about 1/3 inch clearance now.

1. I adjusted settings to run PAS 5/ throttle at about 1250 watts.
2. Downhill top speed is unlimited, 40mph is easy but the brakes will fade very quickly.
3. Set the minimum voltage cut-off to 38 volts. I did this because if your battery is at 44-45 volts (about 50-60%) charge, the surge of current can trip the recommended 40 volt cutout at full throttle/ PAS 5. If you are going up a steep hill at the time in other than low gear not good. As an aside to that, you probably shouldn't ride with voltage less than 40 volts so watch the display.
4. USB ext power is present on the display even with the bike off, you need to use the battery key to actually turn it off. Not a big deal unless you have power drawing accessories.
5. No throttle at PAS 0, I actually prefer this.
6. No slow start, this is fun but it can catch you out if you are one of those people who jump on one pedal and swing your leg over the bike as it starts moving under throttle. Kind of a "hold my beer" moment. Ask me how I know
7. Throttle control is very aggressive. 0-100% in a quarter turn. You get used to it.

Aliexpress sells the same large magnet 750W motor as Bolton for a little less including shipping. You will need a special or modified freewheel tool (big hole for cable / axle nut) to install it but connectors are the same.

May I ask what setting you changed in the KT-LCD8 to adjust the voltage cut-off? I switched to a 52v battery so the depleted voltage is around 45v. I would like to set it to this..

Thanks, Rob

 

[RobbyThEMonK]

oh okay, yeah Grin satiator would be a much better choice.

Yeah I think @harryS has done it. I think as long as the voltage is fine it should be fine??

Grin Satiator is the best charger out bar none. I love mine as its highly programmable and customizable.

 

[Bluzrif]

Grin Satiator is the best charger out bar none. I love mine as its highly programmable and customizable.
[D/QUOTE]
Does the grin come with adapters or is it customized to your battery on order. I have one coming with my WW ultimate commuter pro. but I have 3 Rads that I'd like to use it on.

 

[RobbyThEMonK]

You would need to buy their XLR to 2.5mm barrel adapter. That would cover you Rad bikes

 

[ExPatBrit]

May I ask what setting you changed in the KT-LCD8 to adjust the voltage cut-off? I switched to a 52v battery so the depleted voltage is around 45v. I would like to set it to this..

Thanks, Rob

C12, 52 volt is not listed in the table but assume it works the same way.

 

[AHicks]

So it looks like if you set C12=7, it SHOULD cut off at 41.5v, to give you the maximum cut off value available. That's the way I'm reading it anyway. -Al

 

[KenM]

Here is a manual for the KT-LCD8H display …………. not the crappy 2 page instruction sheet that comes with it, but a full 41 page manual. I set mine up using this and I have it all working the way I want, with options for future experimentation.

 

[Ccount]

THANK YOU! I never knew this was available. I have spent untold hours programming my controller with just that 2 page pamphlet, and the Bolton video. I cannot wait to dig in!

Here is a manual for the KT-LCD8H display …………. not the crappy 2 page instruction sheet that comes with it, but a full 41 page manual. I set mine up using this and I have it all working the way I want, with options for future experimentation.

 

[how]

I've had my 2020 fat tired rad rover step-through for a couple of months now (which I love) and have also ordered a Bolton controller upgrade kit after seeing numerous u tubers showing how they've installed it but have just realized that all those videos were done with other rad models ... and none with the step through. Maybe I'm being paranoid but is there some complication to Bolton's plug & play controller & LCD upgrade that has the step-through rad rover owners not doing that upgrade???
Has anyone here put the Bolton controller kit on a rad rover step- through and was it as straight forward as the videos indicate?