Yes....
Radrover Controller & Display Upgrade Kit
- Thread starter spmckinnon
- Start date
legsofbeer
Active Member
legsofbeer
Active Member
So, one weird new thing that appears to be happening post-upgrade. If, when coming to a complete stop I forget to gear down, when getting going again it takes forever for the the motor to kick on (PAS only, no throttle). This effect was so pronounced I measured it: starting in sixth gear, it takes two complete revolutions of the pedals (720 degrees) before the motor activates. Starting in 2nd or 3rd gear, it turns on shortly after half a revolution (~240 degrees). I do not remember this behavior with the stock controller.
The solution is obvious, don't forget to gear down when coming to a stop, and if I do, use throttle to bail out of the situation. But I was not expecting something like this. I wonder if it is related to pedal rotation speed; I'll try to start rolling on a downhill in sixth gear to see if that makes a difference. I have all controller parameters set to bolton's recommended values, except for C5 and C14 which I'm varying, but still see the delayed motor start behavior in high gear for all C5 and C14 values I've tried.
The solution is obvious, don't forget to gear down when coming to a stop, and if I do, use throttle to bail out of the situation. But I was not expecting something like this. I wonder if it is related to pedal rotation speed; I'll try to start rolling on a downhill in sixth gear to see if that makes a difference. I have all controller parameters set to bolton's recommended values, except for C5 and C14 which I'm varying, but still see the delayed motor start behavior in high gear for all C5 and C14 values I've tried.
legsofbeer
Active Member
"shortly after half a revolution" is more than 180, and it appears to take a bit longer in 3rd gear. Lets dispense with gotchaisms.
AHicks
Well-Known Member
- Region
- USA
- City
- Snow Bird - Summer S.E. Michigan, Winter Gulf Coast North Central Fl.
After 3-4 years with a KT controller now, I can't say as I've experienced anything like that - or maybe I never noticed it. My tendency would be to throttle out of a jam like that. Too old to muscle out.
I have no clue what Bolton suggestions are for these parameters, but after going through them, these would be where my attention would be-
Maybe have a look at P2, to see what it's set at, and maybe try a couple different settings to see if that changes anything
Make sure P3=1 (imitation torque control = ON)
C3, start sensitivity. Check out the manual. The correct one(s) will depend on which side of the bike the PAS sensor is located. There's 0-2 for one side (forward signal) and 5-7 (reverse signal) for the other. Note that there are different start sensitivities on that chart as well. I would try "highest" sensitivity to see if that helps.
I have no clue what Bolton suggestions are for these parameters, but after going through them, these would be where my attention would be-
Maybe have a look at P2, to see what it's set at, and maybe try a couple different settings to see if that changes anything
Make sure P3=1 (imitation torque control = ON)
C3, start sensitivity. Check out the manual. The correct one(s) will depend on which side of the bike the PAS sensor is located. There's 0-2 for one side (forward signal) and 5-7 (reverse signal) for the other. Note that there are different start sensitivities on that chart as well. I would try "highest" sensitivity to see if that helps.
Just tried this on my 2019 Rover (Bolton kit) this morning on my morning commute. I have a larger 46T chainring so I used 5th gear. Confirm PAS takes a couple of rotations of the crank to kick in. Currently using recommended Bolton settings.
To each his own, this idiot spends 80+% of his time in PAS 1 & 2, between 13 & 17 MPH.
I look at PAS 1 merely as compensation for the extra weight of the Ebike, sort of like riding an unpowered bike, good for exercise. It's also reduces the herky-jerkiness when negotiating singletrack or more technical trail sections at slow speed.
PAS 2 definitely helps push my range out to 40 or 50+ miles when I get bored with the scenery around home and am not motivated to load the RAD in/on the gasoline-powered thingy.
I spend a fair amount of time on bike trails and try not to attract the kind of attention that might get ALL or all but Class 1 Ebikes banned from them. For every person that feels a need to get to or through someplace faster, there are those of us who are content to go a bit slower and indulge in the scenery along the way, and I have a feeling RAD put PAS 1 & 2 there for us.
AHicks
Well-Known Member
- Region
- USA
- City
- Snow Bird - Summer S.E. Michigan, Winter Gulf Coast North Central Fl.
Another idiot here, only I think I can say 80% of my time is in PAS 1. 2 is used going into a stiff wind or on slight inclines, and 3 is for the big hills. Monster motor can climb about anything in PAS 3 with just a little help from it's rider. A lot of trail riding here as well.. As much as possible actually....
CynicalZombie
Member
I have like 1600 miles on my Rover 5 (original controller) the vast majority of that is at PAS 2. I'm a fan of Rad's PAS 2.
legsofbeer
Active Member
C3 is the power-on PAS setting. I think you mean C1, which is at the bolton recommended setting of "3". But I'll try 0, 1, and 2 and see what happens. The bolton recommended settings are here (scroll down a few times): https://boltonebikes.com/collection...cts/2019-radpower-upgrade-kit-with-tail-light
legsofbeer
Active Member
Ok, but according to other posts you ride a rad mini, which has smaller wheels for less rolling resistance, is lighter, and may have a different motor/casette/chain ring. I do use PAS2 for long distance rides or trail rides, and it is useful there (got 55 miles on one charge all on PAS2, no throttle). Where it becomes idiotic is that if you have only two PAS settings available that are less than half full power, why choose values of 1/15th and 1/6th power? I read 40-50W on PAS1, and 185W on PAS2 (fully charged battery). 15%&33% or 20%&40% would be more versatile settings, and make it easier to get in 30-45 miles on a single charge.
Riding on PAS1 for me just feels stupid, as in why am I doing this hair shirt exercise on a 70 lb bike instead of using my perfectly serviceable unpowered road bike? I mean, PAS1 puts out less power than walk mode (60w).
legsofbeer
Active Member
I am too for maximizing range, but not at the expense of having such a large gap between PAS2 (1/6th power) and PAS3 (1/2 power). I assume PAS2 on the rover5 is still 1/6th power, about 185W at full charge?
legsofbeer
Active Member
Yes, but you've modded your bike. You are not consuming stock radrover numbers of 40W, 185W, and 360W at those PAS levels. After making the mod, I do now ride preferentially in PAS2. I'm trying to tweak the settings to get PAS1=200W, PAS2=375W, PAS3=500W. But the actual PAS number is just shorthand for wattage.
AHicks
Well-Known Member
- Region
- USA
- City
- Snow Bird - Summer S.E. Michigan, Winter Gulf Coast North Central Fl.
P 2 and 3
and
C1
I do that all the time myself (confuse the P and C parameters).
Yes, using a KT controller simialr to the one Bolton sells. My PAS1 is 75-90w. PAS2 is something just under 200, and PAS3 is around 300. PAS4 and 5 take pretty big jumps up from there.
No argument regarding the OEM big jump from PAS2 to PAS3. It's too bad they aren't a little friendlier about getting stuff like that right for their customers. -Al
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legsofbeer
Active Member
I assume radpower is using the same controller&display across all bike models, and changing only the wheel size and max speed parameters. So some compromises imposed from other bike models may be at play.
But, on the motor delay in high gear problem, changing the C1 parameter made a big difference. Bolton recommended value is "3", 0-2 result in no PAS (most likely reverse settings), values 4-7 decreased the lag bigtime, with 7 being least lag. Currently riding with C1 at 7, and there is very little lag from standing stop even in sixth gear. Caveat: with C1 at 7, when in low gear, it's very easy to trigger inadvertent acceleration, very little pedal movement needed. I'm not going to use C1=7 with PAS5 until I have a chance to test it on nice cushy grass. But the bike feels much livelier now, even though I dialed back a bit from max PAS numbers (PAS 2 yields 280-300w). Urban riding with about 6 stops in 5 miles each way.
Also, the 41 page PDF manual is completely fucking useless on the C1 settings. You just have to try all values and see what happens.
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AHicks
Well-Known Member
- Region
- USA
- City
- Snow Bird - Summer S.E. Michigan, Winter Gulf Coast North Central Fl.
Yes, the chinglish does require a little patience. I've been looking at it, interpreting for years now, tuning my own bike, trying to help others sort their issues, and I STILL see new "stuff" to try.In the spirit of full disclosure, there have been 2 times where I've accidentally triggered the PAS. Neither amounted to much. I recognized what had happened immediately, but it was good for a butt pucker....
1000w wanting to go right now will get your attention. Thankfully, it just amounts to a very short lurch. The bike only moved a couple of inches. Nothing to be paranoid about here. Others may react a bit differently....
Glad you found your issue. -Al
2wheelsturning
New Member
How does one determine where the PAS sensor is located on the Rad Rover 5? What do I look for? Thanks.
CynicalZombie
Member
For the C14 setting, does anyone have a list of what the watt usage is for each of the 5 PAS settings with C14 at 1, 2 & 3?
AHicks
Well-Known Member
- Region
- USA
- City
- Snow Bird - Summer S.E. Michigan, Winter Gulf Coast North Central Fl.
IMHO, that's going to depend on what you have going on with C5 - the setting for limiting amperage available to the motor.
The way I use C14 is to trim the lower PAS settings (like PAS 1-3) after determining/messing with the C5 setting. The one most critical for me is PAS 1. After setting or changing C5, I'll use C14 to set the PAS1 wattage to something in the 80-90 watts range. That seems to be MY sweet spot, where I'm able to control my speed in a range that works best for me. If PAS 1 gets up over 100 watts, the bike's not as easy to control when slowed way down. When PAS 1 is set right, 2 and 3 seem to follow.
2 notes.
My bike, with the big motor, is set to limit available amperage to what I can use. In other words, there is no point, in my world, to have more than what I need to climb a big hill. If I have that, I have plenty for other purposes. This battery, controller, and motor are able to pull 1500w if it's all opened up/unrestricted. I have C5 set to limit wattage to no more than 1100w or so. I believe that's one reason I can make 35 miles on a charge pretty easily...
Second, I arrived at these settings after a lot of test rides under conditions I see. I'm sharing them from the standpoint they are not set in stone. I would encourage those that want the most from their systems to keep an open mind when it comes to these settings, and encourage test rides to see what works for you!
-Al
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