Rad Power Bikes in General

[fooferdoggie]

A Rad Rover fat bike is about about 70 lbs with fenders.

Everything I looked at weighed about the same.

Where are those lighter fat bikes?

no clue on fat bikes. they are heavy by design. but get a mountain bike and they are around 50 https://www.cynergyebikes.com/mountain-ebikes-s/119.htm this is a local store but its handy to see many different bikes at once

 

[Explorer-1]

...their barely adequate 48V14aH battery ....

Um, barely adequate? I have buddies with 36V ~10Ah brose motor e-mountain bikes that are super happy with their bikes. And I've gotten 55 miles out of one charge on the 48V14aH, admittedly with leg work, but still less than effort than my regular road bike demands.

Ya, comments like this makes one look for the Ignore button, and question the OPs intent. It just so happens that even today that is more Wh capacity than most of the name brands (sad but true). Rather than being barely adequate, without qualification on application, it is in fact a respectable capacity for such a bike. Sure I personally prefer more, but but most people I know have less. The battery is in fact well matched to the bike for price and application, and very easy to get a second battery and swap if needed. I don't own a Rad, but this OP seems more like a troll with these uneducated statements and pointless comparisons.

 

[Tars Tarkas]

no there are quite a few problems they tend to have one of the biggest is loose spokes.

I'm satisfied Rad had a problem with spokes at one time, but the best I can tell, there have been no more complaints about Rad spokes than any other bike since I got my Rad Rover in 2018 and started participating on this forum.

I have had zero problems with my spokes. I check them from time to time. No issues. It's an overall great bike as far as I'm concerned, which is not to say it's the same thing as a $7000 bike.

Like any other bike, or any other thing in the world, anyone can find a way to point out something negative about it, but going back in history to drag up Rad's spokes problems is just bogus unless you point out that the problem was "years ago".

TT

 

[Feliz]

This whole thread has gone awry, comparing the weight of a fat tire street bike to a mountain bike!! Would you compare a sports car to a SUV, an F-18 to a 747?

 

[Feliz]

No I didn't, I will if I have any issues with the stock motor. I upgraded to Bolton's controller and display and it has as much power now as any of my bikes including the ones with the Bafang mid drives.

 

[mrgold35]

These type of discussions always crack me up. People sometimes want a Porsche/Ferrari at a Mustang/Camaro price. If they can't have that, then they pick apart every individual component thinking what I "feel" is important is the absolute best choice for everyone and anything else is wrong and sub-standard.

I didn't like the seat+seatpost, lights, tires, pedals, low handle bars, or brakes. It was a quick change to improve the day/night rideability of my Radrover.

Rad Power Bikes can be the 75%-99% solution compared to the more expensive ebikes depending on the rider and environment. I was able to get two 16 Radrovers for the price of one higher end fat tire ebike. I don't think I would/could do anything different or extra if I purchased one +$3000 higher end ebike? The advantage of my 2 for 1 with Rad is I can have a riding partner for 10X the fun instead of riding alone.

 

[fooferdoggie]

These type of discussions always crack me up. People sometimes want a Porsche/Ferrari at a Mustang/Camaro price. If they can't have that, then they pick apart every individual component thinking what I "feel" is important is the absolute best choice for everyone and anything else is wrong and sub-standard.

I didn't like the seat+seatpost, lights, tires, pedals, low handle bars, or brakes. It was a quick change to improve the day/night rideability of my Radrover.

Rad Power Bikes can be the 75%-99% solution compared to the more expensive ebikes depending on the rider and environment. I was able to get two 16 Radrovers for the price of one higher end fat tire ebike. I don't think I would/could do anything different or extra if I purchased one +$3000 higher end ebike? The advantage of my 2 for 1 with Rad is I can have a riding partner for 10X the fun instead of riding alone.

it depewnds on what you want. like fat tires well right there is a huge limit on bikes. you cant get a good decent cadance on a hub drive bike so its ahrd to get your heart rate up. also with those fat tires and one size frame long rides are not practical. if someone just wants casual riding a rad bike would be fine. but if you want performance or do longer rides with a bike that fits you then it is not. lots of hills its not a good bike for that.

 

[ExPatBrit]

Since the weather improved here I have been riding my Rover to work, PNW lots of hills here 20 miles round trip. Last two weekends did a 40 / 30 mile trip and returned with some battery left.

To get my heart rate up, just use less PAS and match gear ratio. Depending on your preference, that might be a lower gear spinning the pedals/ crank more or increased pedal effort in a higher gear. I run the heart rate monitor on my watch, so I know it works.

The only time cadence is a problem for me is when I am coasting at 25+ mph when I could use an extra higher gear.

I live on a hill and the final part of my route approaching my home is a very steep grade. Even with lowish battery level, my Rad Rover has no issue with it.



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[fooferdoggie]

I do 20 miles every day rain or shine in the PNW. I cruise at 22 to 25mph on the flats and about 20 on most hills. I have done 2000 feet of climbing in a hour or so. right now I get at least 30 miles on my battery but thats because i am going fast and till till my health improves I need more assist. but I still get my heart rate around 120 to 130. I want my bike to perform no matter how hard I ride it that I am able to get it fixed or get the parts locally if I needed them. I dont want to worry about cheap parts failing or wasting battery power on heavy bulky wheels that will slow me down. I was able to get the frame size that fits me and do a test ride before I bought the bike. I can keep my preferred cadence on most terrain because I have torque sensors.

 

[BTfl]

I do 20 miles every day rain or shine in the PNW. I cruise at 22 to 25mph on the flats and about 20 on most hills. I have done 2000 feet of climbing in a hour or so. right now I get at least 30 miles on my battery but thats because i am going fast and till till my health improves I need more assist. but I still get my heart rate around 120 to 130. I want my bike to perform no matter how hard I ride it that I am able to get it fixed or get the parts locally if I needed them. I dont want to worry about cheap parts failing or wasting battery power on heavy bulky wheels that will slow me down. I was able to get the frame size that fits me and do a test ride before I bought the bike. I can keep my preferred cadence on most terrain because I have torque sensors.

We get it, you like your bike. That’s good, and everybody else likes their bike, sounds like everybody’s bike does what they want them to do.

 

[legsofbeer]

I live on a hill and the final part of my route approaching my home is a very steep grade. Even with lowish battery level, my Rad Rover has no issue with it.

I do wish the stock radrover controller offered PAS options higher than 1/6th power and lower than 1/2 power. 1/4 and 1/3 PAS options would help one better match desired pedal effort with grade and desired speed. I don't know why they blew one of their 5 PAS levels on a 1/20th power setting, unless that is a regulatory requirement.

 

[DWATSON]

no there are quite a few problems they tend to have one of the biggest is loose spokes. They have cheap and not always standard parts the electrics is not normal. I have found few if any shop that will work on them or will but don't like to. comparing them to a high end product is not a good comparison. a 8000.00 bike is more in the range of a apple product. a rad is more in the range of a chrome book.

Lol

 

[ExPatBrit]

I do wish the stock radrover controller offered PAS options higher than 1/6th power and lower than 1/2 power. 1/4 and 1/3 PAS options would help one better match desired pedal effort with grade and desired speed. I don't know why they blew one of their 5 PAS levels on a 1/20th power setting, unless that is a regulatory requirement.

On my Rad Rover PAS 1 is about 70Watts so 10% power. I actually use PAS 1 quite a bit, it's great on non paved trails where I am not going fast.

The Bolton kit bumps all the levels by 2X, haven't installed mine yet

There is a setting C14 in the KT-Lcd3 Display that you can display to increase PAS a bit , Rad default is 1 but you can change

to 2 or 3

 

[AHicks]

I do wish the stock radrover controller offered PAS options higher than 1/6th power and lower than 1/2 power. 1/4 and 1/3 PAS options would help one better match desired pedal effort with grade and desired speed. I don't know why they blew one of their 5 PAS levels on a 1/20th power setting, unless that is a regulatory requirement.

I didn't think the RAD controllers had much of an issue here. That 1/20th setting is likely a "walk" mode, not one of the PAS levels. How many watts are you seeing in PAS levels 1, 2, and 3?

Also, would like to share that a Bolton kit equipped bike (or any bike equipped with a KT controller/display combo) C5 works great for establishing PAS settings, then trimming those using C14 settings. For instance, I use C5 to limit the maximum amount of power available to about 1100 watts. That combined with C14=2 leaves me with about 100 watts in Pass 1, and just under 200w in PAS2. These work out really well for my tastes. Getting it set to "perfect" for YOUR tastes just requires some experimenting using those 2 parameters. -Al

 

[mrgold35]

I guess I don't understand the issue with the rad's PAS levels? I usually try to pedal at around 50-70 rpms in PAS 2 or 3 depending on terrain. That pedal rpm speed seems to be my "sweet spot" for max power+longest leg endurance for 25-35 miles. I use the gears to get into my pedal comfort zone in PAS 3 on paved roads (PAS 2 for trails) and don't look at mph. That can be at 10-14 mph in 3rd-5th gears when trail riding or 17-22 mph in 6th-7th gear when work commuting; but, always maintaining the 50-70 pedal rpm speed.

Never felt I needed 7 levels or more of PAS. Sounds like the old saying is true for some folks of: "It's a bad craftsman that blames his tools".

 

[AHicks]

Or maybe the bad craftsman doesn't know/understand how the tool is to be used?

 

[legsofbeer]

I didn't think the RAD controllers had much of an issue here. That 1/20th setting is likely a "walk" mode, not one of the PAS levels. How many watts are you seeing in PAS levels 1, 2, and 3?

At PAS 1 I see 31 watts (that was with a fully charged new battery, though I haven't used PAS 1 in months). The walk mode actually delivers more than this, about 60W. I've used it to scoot the bike up the stairs when the elevator went out in my building. PAS 2, I see 122W with a fresh charge, PAS 3 I see 338-362W. I'm very happy with my 2019 radrover, just saying there is room for improvement, since this is just software.

I do not know if the 2020 model has these same PAS settings.

 

[AHicks]

At PAS 1 I see 31 watts (that was with a fully charged new battery, though I haven't used PAS 1 in months). The walk mode actually delivers more than this, about 60W. I've used it to scoot the bike up the stairs when the elevator went out in my building. PAS 2, I see 122W with a fresh charge, PAS 3 I see 338-362W. I'm very happy with my 2019 radrover, just saying there is room for improvement, since this is just software.

I do not know if the 2020 model has these same PAS settings.

Wow. With that info, it's pretty easy to see you're right. It's poorly (or possibly incorrectly?) written software. PAS 1 is way low, and a big hole between 2 and 3.

I can't see a Rover, with it's big fat tires, ever doing well on 65 watts. What a waste. Have you checked with RAD to see if that's correct? Can't help but wonder if that controller isn't set up for smaller wheels/tires and incorrectly installed on your Rover?

That would make me nuts as well. That would be as good an excuse as any for the purchase of one of Bolton's performance kits here. That would allow you to mess with the programming that starts out WAY better than that available from RAD..... AND allow you full use of whatever power is available from the battery (about 1500 watts in my experience) for a big jump in available performance if that's of any interest. -Al

 

[legsofbeer]

Wow. With that info, it's pretty easy to see you're right. It's poorly (or possibly incorrectly?) written software. PAS 1 is way low, and a big hole between 2 and 3.

I can't see a Rover, with it's big fat tires, ever doing well on 65 watts. What a waste. Have you checked with RAD to see if that's correct? Can't help but wonder if that controller isn't set up for smaller wheels/tires and incorrectly installed on your Rover?

Checked it today with a 70% charged battery. PAS 1 bounced between 32 and 64W, mostly on 32. So maybe 45W average? But I think the intent is PAS1 is the training wheels mode, that you use for the first 5 minutes then never go back to. But, if there's only 4 other PAS settings, it's a waste of a setting.

The rover does fine in ~60W "walk" mode, scoots up stairs and drags you up steep hills. I just wish there were a 1/4 and 1/3 power option for longer rides. I'd also be willing to give up the PAS 4 (2/3rds power) to get those, since I usually ride at PAS 3 (1/2 power) and only use PAS 5 (or just twist the throttle) to catch a green light or to pull out of a bonk on a hill.

I am aware of the Bolton upgrade option. 1500w sounds exciting until you think about your range (10 miles?), and that urban biking at 25mph is already scary enough. I'm still glad the option is there.

 

[AHicks]

I am aware of the Bolton upgrade option. 1500w sounds exciting until you think about your range (10 miles?), and that urban biking at 25mph is already scary enough. I'm still glad the option is there.

No no no no!
Bolton's kit not using ANY extra power! Not until you tell it to, and that's dependent on your setup, the one the YOU have control over! No more OEM lock down!

I have mine set to limit max available power to the motor at about 1100w vs. the available 1500w at max. This done to conserve battery range -and- because I have no need for full available power.

My PAS 1 bounces around 80-90w and Pas 2 about 180w. That's generally plenty for anything I would normally do, but I will get into PAS 3 (300+w) occasionally while climbing a hill. These amounts can be trimmed using the setup. PAS 1&2 levels can be raised to 110-120 and 200-220 easily if you like!

My bike (a much modified RAD City with the same battery you have) has a 1000+ watt MAC 12t geared hub motor, well known as a huge torque monster (necessary as I'm 6'2"/315) and has NO trouble getting 35 miles on a charge with my normal riding (mostly PAS 1&2), which does generally include some hills (I'm sure it could be stretched even further).

Point being, because it's ABLE to pass big power, does not mean it does that at lower throttle settings. It's much more likely not to change your battery range at all.

Last, the big motor on my bike was a very pleasant surprise, for the same reasons. It's ABLE to produce big power, but unless it's making that big power, it's not using ANY extra either. -Al