RAD Power Bikes Going Bust

[MrHyak]

Back in the late 80's me and my friends would ride our 3 and 4 wheeler on the snowmobile trails because it was a lot of fun. The snowmobile folks didn't like us being there, mostly because we didn't have to have a snow permit since we were not riding snowmobiles. We only did it 3 or 4 times, but I wonder how they have handled the snow park permits since then. I've seen a few UTV's that replace their tires with tracks for the snow and ride around the neighborhood. Not fast, but I guess something to do.

 

[Gordon71]

I asked AI whether Ebike batteries become defective and dangerous after years of use. This is what they said:
Yes, an ebike battery can become defective and more dangerous over several years
, as all batteries degrade with age and use. This is primarily due to natural wear on the cells, which can lead to a loss of capacity, but improper care, physical damage, or use of incorrect chargers can also introduce risks like overheating or fires. The risk of a battery failure is low, especially with reputable, modern batteries that have built-in safety features, but it increases with age and poor maintenance.

The key takeaway for me was age leads to less capacity which I already knew. Dangerous though? That's where the "but" comes in as in "improper care,physical damage, or use of improper chargers". So, 31 fires out of several hundred thousand batteries in use suggests to me that those 31 were not properly used and/or maintained. If the batteries were in fact defective there would be a lot more fires than 31.

 

[6zfshdb]

I'm not surprised that age is a factor. The longer one uses the battery, the more it is handled and transported. Rough handling while sitting in the back of a vehicle, bouncing around in the trunk or on a bike rack during transport, can cause parts to shift or loosen inside the case. Even riding on very rough surfaces over time can cause internal damage.

I'm always dismayed when I see someone at a trailhead just throw a battery on the back seat and dive off. A sudden stop could cause it to slide off. I once saw someone open their car door and the battery fell out on the ground. Just because the battery looks like a brick, doesn't mean you can treat it like one.

Considering how much energy is stored in one of these things, I carry mine in a padded case:

 

[Gordon71]

I'm not surprised that age is a factor. The longer one uses the battery, the more it is handled and transported. Rough handling while sitting in the back of a vehicle, bouncing around in the trunk or on a bike rack during transport, can cause parts to shift or loosen inside the case. Even riding on very rough surfaces over time can cause internal damage.

I'm always dismayed when I see someone at a trailhead just throw a battery on the back seat and dive off. A sudden stop could cause it to slide off. I once saw someone open their car door and the battery fell out on the ground. Just because the battery looks like a brick, doesn't mean you can treat it like one.

Considering how much energy is stored in one of these things, I carry mine in a padded case:

View attachment 202712 View attachment 202714 View attachment 202717

Good point. I carry mine by hand to the shelf I place it on when I recharge it. I only ride on the road or groomed trail and avoid any potholes.

 

[Old-tool-guy]

Just for fun I looked up the number of bikes rad has sold. It said as of 2023 they have sold over 600,000 bikes and one can assume some people also bought extra batteries. 26 fires out of 600,000 bikes tells me that probably they are the result of owner abuse as in getting them wet, improper charging, a damaged battery from dropping it and other things I can't think of.

It is a small percentage. It’s a huge problem if it happens to you, but in the big picture it’s normal failure rate.

 

[Old-tool-guy]

Depends how you want to define USA. Many scholars say that by international law, Taiwan is a US insular area from WWII. Meaning products made there, are made in USA.
https://www.civil-taiwan.org/hartzell5.pdf

Thanks for the info, i did not know that.

 

[PedalUma]

A guy just brought in a battery that had a welded discharge terminal. Years ago I would have worked on it. Now I know better. It is like in Mission Impossible defusing a bomb. I do not need that.

 

[Chargeride]

You cut the bluey grey wire, not the greyey blue wire

 

[Biplaneguy]

Just for fun I looked up the number of bikes rad has sold. It said as of 2023 they have sold over 600,000 bikes and one can assume some people also bought extra batteries. 26 fires out of 600,000 bikes tells me that probably they are the result of owner abuse as in getting them wet, improper charging, a damaged battery from dropping it and other things I can't think of.

26 / 600,000 = 0.004%. Just for fun, I did a search. Online quoted statistics are dubious, but that's about exactly the rate of fires for electric vehicles in general... which despite the hype, are a lot less common than fires in gasoline powered vehicles (but a lot more difficult to extinguish).

 

[PedalUma]

0.004%

Yes, but it is a design flaw that will get worse with time, like bending a coat hanger back and forth. The number could climb very quickly, maybe exponentially.
There is an exponent story of a mathematician who helped a king. The king asked if he would like payment in gold. The mathematician said grain please. And took out a chess board and said put one piece of wheat on the first square, two on the second, four on the third and so on...
A chessboard contains 204 squares of varying sizes. It would be a pile of grain to smother Manhattan's skyline.

 

[Chargeride]

Yeah, ICE car fires includes all those clapped out botched together diy heaps of crap around the world, rebuilt, drowned, cracking fuel pipes and missing parts, where as the vast majority of EVs are new or untouched as very few people are comfortable working on them.

 

[Bobsiii]

Tons of Rad bikes on FB Marketplace for $5-800, thinking about picking one up.
I don't drive, travel by e-bike for 6+ years. I had a Velotric I loved but it was stolen, I'm poor and could only afford a $450 36v bike from Amazon, it's less than ideal
Wondering if I should risk battery probs, which I suspect are overblown, and get a better quality bike.

 

[PedalUma]

Tons of Rad bikes on FB Marketplace for $5-800, thinking about picking one up.
I don't drive, travel by e-bike for 6+ years. I had a Velotric I loved but it was stolen, I'm poor and could only afford a $450 36v bike from Amazon, it's less than ideal
Wondering if I should risk battery probs, which I suspect are overblown, and get a better quality bike.

The odds of a battery fire are like winning the lottery; you can't win if you don't buy a ticket.

 

[Chargeride]

Or the guy in the flat below buys one.

 

[PedalUma]

Or the guy in the flat below buys one.

That is how to get a winning ticket for free!

 

[harryS]

Tons of Rad bikes on FB Marketplace for $5-800, thinking about picking one up.
I don't drive, travel by e-bike for 6+ years. I had a Velotric I loved but it was stolen, I'm poor and could only afford a $450 36v bike from Amazon, it's less than ideal
Wondering if I should risk battery probs, which I suspect are overblown, and get a better quality bike.

Wow, until recently, most of us here would say a Rad is good quality, probably more trustworthy than Veloctric, I still think it is.

Suggest you join the Rad users group on facebook. See what they;re doing,

 

[PedalUma]

The battery model number (HL-RP-S1304 or RP-1304) is printed on a label on the back or rear of the battery. Run from these as fast as you can to avoid serious injury or death.

CPSC Warns Consumers to Immediately Stop Using Batteries for E-Bikes from Rad Power Bikes Due to Fire Hazard; Risk of Serious Injury or Death

www.cpsc.gov

 

[BlackHand]

The battery model number (HL-RP-S1304 or RP-1304) is printed on a label on the back or rear of the battery. Run from these as fast as you can to avoid serious injury or death.

CPSC Warns Consumers to Immediately Stop Using Batteries for E-Bikes from Rad Power Bikes Due to Fire Hazard; Risk of Serious Injury or Death

www.cpsc.gov

To clarify, those 2 specific model numbers are the only ones called out by CPSC. Rad has had a number of different batteries over the years and there are lots of Rad bikes with different batteries on them.

 

[Gordon71]

To clarify, those 2 specific model numbers are the only ones called out by CPSC. Rad has had a number of different batteries over the years and there are lots of Rad bikes with different batteries on them.

And are the batteries actually at fault or were the ones that caught fire the result of owner abuse? I'm thinking the latter or there would be a lot more of them.

 

[PedalUma]

And are the batteries actually at fault or were the ones that caught fire the result of owner abuse? I'm thinking the latter or there would be a lot more of them.

The RAD I am looking at right now has a five pin discharge in the shape of an 'M'. If it was two pin then replacing the battery would be easy, off the shelf. I do not know what the others do or if they are really needed. It looks like three volts, so one red, one black, and a third control or monitoring signal. This is not one of the bad batteries.